People are stating their opinion on how they personally want to look and how they think others should look and then stating those opinions as facts. I'd love to come in here and say "Tren, and Halotestin are totally safe"....and if you went according to the mirror they are. According to the mirror Tren and Halotestin are the safest drugs you can take. You look awesome, rock hard and lean. Obviously the insides tell a different story. People dont want to use testosterone because they dont like the look. I GET IT! But if you want to get down to brass tacks and look at things longevity and health wise....the truth is pretty darn obvious. Madg you are using guys from the 70's and 80's as your arguing point on health and look. And your darn right...Padilla and Coe and Ross and a whole bunch of other guys in the 70's and 80's went low test and high anabolics. But you are putting "health" in that equation. Well lets look at that shall we? Padilla was freaking awesome. I saw him compete in the Night of Champions back in early 90's in Yates first show. Coe was a teenage phenom. You are taking guys with phenomenal genetics and making an argument on what they used as the argument. Do you know how many 5'3 bodybuilders tried to look like Padilla? Hundreds of thousands? How many ended up looking like him? 12 maybe? {Priest, Lewis, Henry, Terra, and a handful more)....obviously genetics created that bodybuilder....regardless of his drug choices. But you are leaving out a main cog in all this.....how is what they did healthier? Padilla went the low test high anabolic route and had quadruple bypass in his late 40's. Coe went low test and high anabolics and had quadruple bypass in his 50's. Don Ross went low test high anabolics and dropped dead of a heart attack in his late 40's. A slew of low test high anabolic bodybuilders from the 70's ended up with heart problems.
This isnt going to go well in here at all...AT FREAKING ALL. I do know this.....from looking at (its got to be over 1000 bodybuilders blood work now) that people on low testosterone dosages, and low gh dosages have virtually no changes in their bloodwork. With all PEDS blood pressure must be kept in check but with testosterone in low dosages what you get is a slightly higher hematocrit and a slightly lower HDL and thats about it. Now if you want to talk about Testosterone bloodwork compared to "steroids that are considered safe" bloodwork? Everyone on this thread will be pissed at this but it the g'damn truth....you cannot make the argument because "you like a look"....and want to continue having that look and will argue vehemently because you want to use "X compound"...instead of testosterone when "X compound" is not even remotely as safe as testosterone. For example Anavar for some fracked up reason got a reputation as "SAFE" all these years. Its about the unsafest long time usage drug out there. And virtually any person in here doing 50mg of anavar a day who checks their bloodwork about 6 weeks in on that will quickly see lipid numbers that would make a doctor say "WTF are you doing?".....I keep running into physique competitors online that have coaches having them use anavar year round and their HDL is plummetted and LDL/TRigs skyrocketed. Because these coaches are telling them "Anavar is healthy and safe".....Ive had about 6 guys in this last year who are physique guys who have used anavar longterm who i told to get coronary calcium scores......they are all coming back escalated. The last guy is 34 years old and his CCS is 383. 383!!! the guy is 34! Thats a cardiac event waiting to happen by the time he is 38-42.
I had another bodybuilder who was known for his longterm usage of "healthy anabolics" {One of the most famous people in the sport}.....come to me because his coronary calcium score was 340 and wondered if I could get him down from that. So much for mans tweaking of the parent hormone (testosterone) to make it safer. If anyone took the time to get bloodwork smack dab in the middle of these so called safe anabolics (noone does that)....they would be shocked to see that a great many of them are really detrimental to longterm lipid health. It is what it is. <---is that statement going to be popular in this forum....hell no its not....some people are seething right now reading that because again 'they want a certain look" and here comes Dante Trudel pissing on the apple cart.
So in my opinion this all comes down to an opinion on a look that you want vs what you are wanting to risk health wise...it really does. My opinion is this: if health is the highest importance in this sport. Low dose testosterone and low dose gh are the two things you can do pretty much the rest of your life and not have very detrimental aspects to your bloodwork. If someone was going to add an anabolic to that then maybe primobolan could be added to that (but again that would have to be proven out by bloodwork). Thats why i have stated time and time again in this forum.....try to spend the longer periods that you ar putting on size with a test dosage (while keeping bp in check) with low dose gh (so you can eat enough food to get larger but remain lean) and again with maybe primobolan....and if you got a contest in sight "YOU GOT TO DO WHAT YOU GOT TO DO"....and that means using drugs that are in no way conducive to health. Never ever use orals offseason...only precontest or before something important you want to look good for and keep that usage fairly short.
If thats not acceptable for someone then so be it.....they are free to do whatever they want and to take whatever health risks they want. But the bioidentical hormones have shown time and time again that in low dosages they are pretty safe healthwise. There is not a mass epidemic of people dying who are on TRT but again thats the bioidentical hormone of the body ....id rather see someone use 300mg of testosterone longterm than ever use 50mg of anavar longterm 1000 times over. But again i have always had people test bloodwork smack dab in the middle of things....but 99% of people dont do that....they get off and go "hey im healthy"...your supposed to be healthy off. Its the 48 weeks of the year that you were on that counted toward longterm health.
Madg you said something about guys using testosterone but you are using guys with insane genetics as your argument. If a guy has small arms genetically using anavar and deca over testosterone is not going to fix that. Guys like Serge Nubret with 6.5 inch wrists and 21 inch arms dont fall out of trees. Thats a genetic anomaly. So what are guys with subpar genetics supposed to do? Give up and take up golf? They are trying to even the playing field by putting on enough size they can compete.
Regardless of the above...everyone in this forum can do whatever they want with their look and their health. They can take chances and they can be uber health conscious. I dont have any stock in Testosterone Cypionate so i dont care what anyone does. I just have the opinion I have formed from looking at so many bbers health markers over the years that i have drawn the conclusion that testosterone in low dosages has been much safer than drugs thought of as "safe". Myself i would rather take tren and var and 150mg of test a week if it was a perfect world. But its not and that route would have dire consequences. I can differentiate my preference for a certain look over what i have come to know is the healthiest route of performance enhancement drugs. I truly believe as we go along here in years people are going to start seeing the validity of the parent compound in its safety compound instead of mans tweaking of that parent compound (which all came from the 60's pretty much)
Great post once again! We know everyone is different, but based on all the blood work you've seen over the years, what would you say is a "safe" off-season dose of testosterone and GH? Would you say up to 300mg test and 2-3 units GH would be the most one can get away with before running into serious health issues? As to the primobolan on top of the test and GH, do you have a recommendation for dosing based on the info you've acquired over the years?
I do understand blood work and cardiovascular tests would be your best indicator, but was wondering if you could specify doses you have seen that worked for many as far as making gains and staying healthy while using these 3 compounds.