Staying on cycle forever

[traininsane11]

This is part of topics me and @TheOtherOne55 are currently discussing, been spoken about by us on here briefly and then this video popped up so I thought I would share it

I know chase irons for one has spoken about it to

Essentially if your health is good do you need to come off cycle / cruise / trt?

This video references and has been discussed prior by the channel will these new peptides allow gear dosages to be pushed higher than ever before (safely) and general guidelines to how to run gear change

I think it’s also relative to someone’s level and goals which is more in keeping with what me and @TheOtherOne55 have been discussing

If you’re a 200lb hobby bodybuilder how you approach gear will be vastly different from a on stage 250lb competitive SHW trying to get to 270lbs for example in all regards

Will be interested to see how the industry handles these peptides going forwards and will the general dosage and cycle guidelines increase dramatically going forward

 

[BALDNAZI]

If there was a peptide that kept hematocrit down to normal levels, then a no brainer for me. Everything else can be kept in healthy ranges with peptides it seems and certain supplements. Reta for one has been great for me. Solve the blood count problem and I’d never go down to low TRT doses again.

Yes, I do understand we can keep our blood thinner and anti clotting with Fish Oil, Natto etc. But a simple shot where you don’t even think about it would be nice.

 

[rAJJIN]

I thought a cycle was the old days when guys when pyramid dose.
Not sure if anyone comes off anymore but maybe just lowers the dose or changes a few things?

 

[qbkilla]

I've asked this question before on forums, hypothetically, who would look better? Who would be healthier?

Guy 1. Runs 300mg test year round
Guy 2. Runs 150mg for 10 weeks, then blasts 450 for 10 weeks, repeat

Different numbers can be used of course but the above averages out to the same total dose over a year. Almost everyone has replied guy 2 is a better approach.

 

[Fleezy]

I've asked this question before on forums, hypothetically, who would look better? Who would be healthier?

Guy 1. Runs 300mg test year round
Guy 2. Runs 150mg for 10 weeks, then blasts 450 for 10 weeks, repeat

Different numbers can be used of course but the above averages out to the same total dose over a year. Almost everyone has replied guy 2 is a better approach.

at those doses of just test?


i doubt there would be much of a difference in looks or health issues lol


probably won't produce much of either

 

[st114]

I went probably 2 1/2 years “on cycle” without a cruise.. just rotating compounds. My health is perfect, EKG results good. As you said, there’s no reason to come down to true TRT unless there’s something wrong. The cleaning out receptors stuff is bullshit.

The last 6-7 weeks is the first time I’ve come off and down to 2-300mg of test only. But that was due to life circumstances and most gear being fake right now (get test from a doc). Was wondering if I’d feel “better” or more healthy but I feel about the same.

My only health issues come from pushing myself too hard in the gym and overtraining. CNS fatigue, and rhabdo.. but never had any issues from gear

 

[hawkmoon]

I think the point Dave made about just because health markers look good when can't assume all is well is a wise perspective.

I also think it really depends on dosage, duration, and individual robustness.
Some can take more and withstand it.
Some can take much less and outgrow others.
Some will say they are meticulous about health, but in fact aren't.

My feeling is that even if things look good, pushing it going to cause problems.
Mindful that if pushing one isn't pushing just gear, but food and training and all that causes stress and wear - silent or otherwise.

I think coming down to a TRT dose that supports the user while giving everything a break is the best long term strategy.

*Note when I say "a break" I am not talking about AR, as we now know they don't downregulate, but upregulate in the presence of androgens.

 

[buck]

I have to wonder if the body is in hgh gear working at recovering and trying to be healthy and everything is in the "normal range"(which is based off of unhealthy people) is actually causing issues that will surface later once the body can't work hard to be "healthy".

 

[MackCoach]

Great thread!!!!

 

[qbkilla]

I have to wonder if the body is in hgh gear working at recovering and trying to be healthy and everything is in the "normal range"(which is based off of unhealthy people) is actually causing issues that will surface later once the body can't work hard to be "healthy".

Interesting idea. Besides the obvious genetics factor, I think there is a big variance among aas users in diet. Some guys diet is 100 on point, and some don't even count calories and have cheat meals, follow their version of the 80/20 rule, "enjoy dinner with the family " . Some get 15 k steps and do high intensity cardio, some skip cardio. Some use a litany of other compounds, some do not. There could be 2 identical twins blasting 750mg year round, and due to other variables, one may be healthy as a horse the other having issues.

 

[Growthman]

The best analogy I can give is this: even if a car looks fine on the dashboard, you wouldn’t sit there revving it at 6–8k RPM indefinitely. Eventually something gives. We’ve even lost people here who had good markers right up until they didn’t. Labs are useful, but they don’t always reflect cumulative stress.

 

[bbxtreme]

Just because we can’t see something doesn’t mean it isn’t real. Or maybe we just haven’t looked at the right vitals or markers.

I talked about this in my recent tren thread about how guys on here always complain how they can’t use X compound like they used to. Just because you didn’t feel something in the past didn’t mean damage wasn’t getting done.

CNS fatigue and metabolic demand are two key factors to consider. Pushing the body on grams of gear, HGH, insulin, IGF etc is extremely metabolically demanding. It also heavily taxes our CNS.

Over time we start to adjust to how we feel on all of it and tell ourselves nothing is happening in our body. For that reason I do think coming down once twice a year to a solid baseline of test is smart for 8-10 weeks.

All that aside, if you want to be a top bodybuilder, get a pro card and win you will have to stay on cycle year round unless you just have stupid good genetics.

And remember, what we’re doing now won’t show up for another 5,10 or 15 years on our health. There is a price for all this. If we are smart we come to places like PM to try and learn how to buffer and offset some of those potential health consequences.

 

[buck]

Interesting idea. Besides the obvious genetics factor, I think there is a big variance among aas users in diet. Some guys diet is 100 on point, and some don't even count calories and have cheat meals, follow their version of the 80/20 rule, "enjoy dinner with the family " . Some get 15 k steps and do high intensity cardio, some skip cardio. Some use a litany of other compounds, some do not. There could be 2 identical twins blasting 750mg year round, and due to other variables, one may be healthy as a horse the other having issues.

I agree. I know of many BBers that think is they are eating the macros they deemed correct on the their diet is on point. Even though is is lacking in many of them with a good micronutrient profile, which they sometimes try to correct by taking a supplement. When ever someone says on point that just means their opinion.
The studies done in England on identical twins show the twin with the worst lifestyle ends up worse off.

The best analogy I can give is this: even if a car looks fine on the dashboard, you wouldn’t sit there revving it at 6–8k RPM indefinitely. Eventually something gives. We’ve even lost people here who had good markers right up until they didn’t. Labs are useful, but they don’t always reflect cumulative stress.

Even if a car is not read lining it is still getting more wear and tear at higher RPM's and speed then a slower car.
From my reading half of people that have had heart attacks had healthy cholesterol levels. seems science has not figured everything out yet.

 

[abt10]

ill pin until i cant.. and when i cant, i wont be doing too much if anything at all at that point.
the vultures have all revealed themselves.. so like mr sumner aka sting, everyone(my progeny) will have to earn their own way...

 

[Battousai]

I don't see the issue with this as long as your cycle doesn't include slamming orals and tren all year round. But high doses of test, eq, and gh? Yeah I'm never coming off that.

 

[Siggy]

IMO Remaining on cycle forever if your labs are good isnt a smart thing to do.

These are all just markers, there may be other factors we simply dont know about.

 

[luki7788]

I’ll put it this way. The truth is that most of us stay on supraphysiological doses all year. At least most big guys, actually pretty much 100% of the big guys. If someone goes down to real TRT, it’s usually just 4-5 weeks after a show, and that’s it. And even then it’s not really TRT, because the half-life of these compounds keeps androgen levels high for another 5-6 weeks anyway. So in reality they never truly come off.
Of course it’s good to lower doses for a while, because even if your bloodwork looks fine, high androgen use still creates oxidative stress and that hits the whole body. But we all know how it is. We accept that bodybuilding shortens our lifespan. This is our passion, our lifestyle, and we take the consequences. The key is just keeping some level of common sense.
If you want to be the best competitor you can be even if we’re not talking Olympia level then you don’t really have time for long “real TRT phases.” Unless you’re already older, like 40+, and you’re not chasing size anymore. Then sure, you can drop size in the offseason and only push heavy during prep, using muscle memory to rebuild everything. That’s the only situation where TRT makes sense. But even then, let’s be honest most older guys still stay on something above TRT anyway.

This is bodybuilding. We all sign up for the risk. Just like someone who loves riding a motorcycle fast knows one day he might crash. Or someone who climbs mountains knows one day he might die on the way up. We accept the risk because that’s life. A life without any risk wouldn’t be worth living.

 

[traininsane11]

Some good replies on here!

I think it’s hard to speculate on what these new peptide’s or whatever else come out will allow us to do but with the info we have of current I also believe it’s wise to lower dosages for periods of time

Health/genetics/level of development/goals/gear amounts/timeframes

These factors will all come into play I believe

A hobbyist bodybuilder weighing 200lbs “blasting” on say 600mg could easily drop down to trt for periods of time and probably not notice much of a change

A 250lb+ on stage competitive bodybuilder blasting 2/3/4g probably wouldn’t be able to unless it’s for such a short time that renders it pointless so a cruise for this person may be 600mg+ but in relation to the blast dosage is a considerable drop

I think regardless of the dosage you drop down to (as long as it’s a considerable drop not just dropping tren out) after a 16-20 week blast it makes sense to come down to your individual cruise dosage for 6-10 weeks again depending on health markers maybe you’ll require longer but I still believe doing your upmost to keep your health as good as possible 365 days of the year makes sense instead of trying to magically fix a tonne of issues in a 6-10 week cruise that you could of prevented most of

When you break it down for most competitors this is just 2 cruises per year the first post contest where your body will rebound anyway so you shouldn’t notice the reduction in gear and then post offseason before prep when most have tapped out with food anyway so a small break between then and prep

 

[Tomgrass]

You want an answer ? Just look at the death list in the last 4-5 years. You can ignore it say whatever you want to say to yourself to justify it. Maybe you will be ok maybe you want. Nobody knows the answer for the furure. We only knows what happened in the past and based on this decide. I dont know if those guys were eating clean and doing cardio. If i have to guess some of them probably did - so what then???

 

[Mufasa123]

Just recently dropped to 200mg Test E after a 16 week run (test, mast with tren being toggled 4 weeks on/off on average). Normally I'm 200 test/200 deca as cruise. 200mg test only is lowest I've been in a couple years. Pulled bloods a few weeks back after dropping tren and surprisingly good (usually is even on tren and/or orals which are rare for me but just saying). Even Hematocrit, which I struggle some with, was 52 with top of range 50.

This is my 3rd week on 200 test only and feels really good. My CNS was fried as tren does that to me alongside my training - mostly free weight compound movements. Haven't decided for how long but kind of liking the rest and definitely recovering.

All that said goals are important for context - I'm 50+, have brought weight down and not looking to scale up. Just body comp, strength levels at this age/weight mainly. If I was 20 and looking to maximize muscle gain - different recipe.