Steroid use and life expectancy?

[Macdaddy]

Lets look at this from the other point of view. I don't think AAs "help" BBers live longer. They can really only detract from longevity. I can't see where using gear for BBing purposes would actually make you MORE healthy.

So based on that, I would say that AAs in general would likely shorten life expectancy. How much they would shorten life expectancy is another story. And how shortened vs dosage is yet another story.

This is all from a pure health perspective and I am not talking about people with conditions where TRT is required.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

My opinion is abuse will shorten the life, dramatically and early (40's 50's) in some cases....on the other hand NOT USING TRT when your testosterone is chronically low 35, 40, 50 etc will IMO severely lower your life expectancy and bring upon a whole slew of health problems.

There is a mode of thought where many are thinking that the high end of the range of testosterone is the most healthy.

I read an article where it said the average testosterone for men in the 1940's was 700ng/dl....what is it today? 400ng/dl due to many factors (stress, environmental estrogens etc etc et)

Most doctors think its ok to have a mans testosterone at 250 ng/dl.....the "hey dont worry you are still in range syndrome".

250 to 900 ng/dl is the range....but there is a movement of people who believe that the higher range.....the 750 to 1200 ng/dl range is the most healthy.

 

[unoigo]

Its not the aas its the lifestyle of pushing everything to the extreme that shortens lives.

Great comment, I agree completely.

Friends, co-workers, etc. always think I'm this health nut for the way I eat. (no junk, protein, veggies, good fat, etc.) But I always tell them, I'm far from healthy... the way we eat in the offseason is very unhealthy and the way we diet, shed water, etc is very unhealthy.

I'm sure some people don't see it this way but when you want to be the best and push yourself to limites, it is extreme and does take a toll on the body.

Re: AAS, I feel abuse will lead to shorter life span, not use.

 

[maldorf]

Also I should add that the shear massiveness of guys nowadays has really changed the whole game. Being 300 lbs of fat may be different than 300 lbs of muscle, but the fact is the the organs are still very much stressed even if you are 300lbs with 8% body fat. Many people think the body mass index is bullshit....and for bodybuilders it is BS, but for overall health and longevity it is probably the best thing to go by if you wanna live a long life (provided you actually take care of yourself...we all know super skinny dudes that treat their bodies like absolute shit). Back in the 70's and even 80's drug use amongst pro bodybuilders was substantially less than what it is nowadays and come to think of it I can't think of any guys that had an off season weight of over maybe 280 (I could be wrong though). Arnold I think competed at 235 and was around 260 in the off season...and that dude is 6'2"!!! He has had his share of health issues though, mostly heart related I believe.

I have to agree with what you have said about BMI. I do think that if you stray too far from that, especially if it weight that you would not naturally carry, you are going to impact your life expectancy. I might argue that being 300 lbs and 10% bodyfat is acutally harder on your heart than being 300 lbs and 20% bodyfat. My reasoning for this is the fact that bodyfat doesnt really have any blood supply to speak of while muslce has to constantly be supplied with blood in order to survive. Pumping blood to all of that muscle mass is going to be an incredible strain on the heart. Somone of the same weight that has less muscle and less fat is going to have less demand on the heart in this way. Now they are both going to have to move around the same bodyweight, so in that respect things wont be much differnt, but the muscular person has a lot more muscle that needs to have a fresh blood supply. Much strain on the heart can lead to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. If blood pressure gets too high then you start getting an enlarged heart that is dialated.

 

[maldorf]

Lou Ferrigno is doing well.

Yeah, hes quite small now compared to how he was when he made is comeback to bodybuidling. He looks very healthy. To me he looked much younger than his chronological age. IN fact he looks much better than Arnold or any of his contemporaries. I dont think he take anything more now than HRT dose of test or may even be natural.

 

[maldorf]

My opinion is abuse will shorten the life, dramatically and early (40's 50's) in some cases....on the other hand NOT USING TRT when your testosterone is chronically low 35, 40, 50 etc will IMO severely lower your life expectancy and bring upon a whole slew of health problems.

There is a mode of thought where many are thinking that the high end of the range of testosterone is the most healthy.

I read an article where it said the average testosterone for men in the 1940's was 700ng/dl....what is it today? 400ng/dl due to many factors (stress, environmental estrogens etc etc et)

Most doctors think its ok to have a mans testosterone at 250 ng/dl.....the "hey dont worry you are still in range syndrome".

250 to 900 ng/dl is the range....but there is a movement of people who believe that the higher range.....the 750 to 1200 ng/dl range is the most healthy.

I feel great now at the age of 40 on TRT, test level is around 870.

 

[ironjunkie]

My opinion is abuse will shorten the life, dramatically and early (40's 50's) in some cases....on the other hand NOT USING TRT when your testosterone is chronically low 35, 40, 50 etc will IMO severely lower your life expectancy and bring upon a whole slew of health problems.

There is a mode of thought where many are thinking that the high end of the range of testosterone is the most healthy.

I read an article where it said the average testosterone for men in the 1940's was 700ng/dl....what is it today? 400ng/dl due to many factors (stress, environmental estrogens etc etc et)

Most doctors think its ok to have a mans testosterone at 250 ng/dl.....the "hey dont worry you are still in range syndrome".

250 to 900 ng/dl is the range....but there is a movement of people who believe that the higher range.....the 750 to 1200 ng/dl range is the most healthy.

My HRT doc is one of those that believe this!

 

[xx0noob0xx]

they fought and got hit in the head multible times. they were drug abusing. it doesnt just have to do with steroids

 

[topfuel]

Mr. Olympia's

Something to think about. All Mr. Olympia's are still alive. That should say something. Don't you think?

 

[concreteguy]

on the other hand NOT USING TRT when your testosterone is chronically low 35, 40, 50 etc will IMO severely lower your life expectancy and bring upon a whole slew of health problems.

Any of the longevityclinics will tell you the same thing. Most will point out that HRT hasn't been proven to lengthen life but most certainly improves the quality of it.
I could be wrong but I seem to remember reading that there isn't one report in the NewEngland Journal of Medicine showing TRT to normal levels to have ever caused cancer of any kind. Again, please check this fact I may be wrong.

You can believe that God whipped us up to be flawed by design. Or reason out how we evolved to go away after our optimum breeding age. Just like the proud lion that fights his way to the top ,breeds with all the ladies in the pride and then is defeated by a younger lion one day.


PLEASE: Don't turn this into a flag waiving religious debate.

 

[minister]

One of our workout partners is 74 years old, the guy has been using gear for 30 years, he's a big guy, 6'3'',240lbs, healthy and strong as an ox, and I would consider him to be a heavy user, he said roids is the best thing that's ever happened to him. And on the other hand one of my buddies is only 34 years old and he ended up in the hospital a couple of times with what we believe was steroid related problems. Which leads me to believe that if you are prone to face particular health issues due to genetics, steroids just might speed up the process, so it is an individual thing due to genetics and amounts used. God bless you.

 

[IRON37]

good conversation here.. Ive wondered it myself. So rec drug use aside, is insulin or hgh more dangerous for long term/high dosage use? Or would aas be? I really dont know enough about insulin to say

 

[klowndog]

My opinion is abuse will shorten the life, dramatically and early (40's 50's) in some cases....on the other hand NOT USING TRT when your testosterone is chronically low 35, 40, 50 etc will IMO severely lower your life expectancy and bring upon a whole slew of health problems.

There is a mode of thought where many are thinking that the high end of the range of testosterone is the most healthy.

I read an article where it said the average testosterone for men in the 1940's was 700ng/dl....what is it today? 400ng/dl due to many factors (stress, environmental estrogens etc etc et)

Most doctors think its ok to have a mans testosterone at 250 ng/dl.....the "hey dont worry you are still in range syndrome".

250 to 900 ng/dl is the range....but there is a movement of people who believe that the higher range.....the 750 to 1200 ng/dl range is the most healthy.

What does that equate to in mg/week. Is 750 mg test/week considered "abuse"?

 

[Macdaddy]

Very true!! If you look at any animal in nature, both male and female basically begin to fall apart after optimal breeding age is achieved. Almost all animals have limited "natural" life span after reaching breeding age. Humans have "artificially" outlasted our "natural" life span after maturity with the use of drugs and our ability to provide for one another when the elderly can't provide for themselves. You can see this in the average lifespan of people now (men 78, women 79) compared to 100 years ago (men 49, women 51). We have almost doubled our average lifespan (1st world countries).

 

[concreteguy]

Spot on Mac!

Very true!! If you look at any animal in nature, both male and female basically begin to fall apart after optimal breeding age is achieved. Almost all animals have limited "natural" life span after reaching breeding age. Humans have "artificially" outlasted our "natural" life span after maturity with the use of drugs and our ability to provide for one another when the elderly can't provide for themselves. You can see this in the average lifespan of people now (men 78, women 79) compared to 100 years ago (men 49, women 51). We have almost doubled our average lifespan (1st world countries).

" I see said the blind man "

 

[Athlete]

Well, all I know is that I will be doing a DNA test in due time... and the answer given will be the deciding factor if I go on again or not.

They will test me to see if I have an increased risk for the following:
* heart attack / blood clots
* high blood pressure
* bad cholesterol
* diabetes

Plus some bonuses like lactose and gluten intolerance, neurological diseases etc.
Only costs about $500, well worth it IMO, if you wanna live this lifestyle.

 

[dieselbuilder]

This is a very very broad statement as I am not taking any factors into account but some people start smoking cigarettes at a very young age and end up dying of natural causes at 70-80 years old. And some people start smoking cigs at a very young age and end up dying of lung cancer in their 30s,40s, or 50s or whenever it gets them. It can go with steroids as well. Just depends on who it is i guess.

 

[TRYN2]

Maybe it's been covered, is there a healthy way to cycle and if so, explain.

 

[ssdark1]

Maybe it's been covered, is there a healthy way to cycle and if so, explain.

MY OPINION....test only, never go above 6/700 a week, dont stay on longer than 10/12 weeks, either come back down to true trt dose or come off for longer than you were on, have bloodwork done, keep blood pressure and estrogen levels in check, eat healthy, cardio...

really too many variables for anyone to answer definitively and there are FAR more qualified guys than me to answer. this is just my personal philosphy.

i would love to hear DC and phil answer this

 

[TRYN2]

MY OPINION....test only, never go above 6/700 a week, dont stay on longer than 10/12 weeks, either come back down to true trt dose or come off for longer than you were on, have bloodwork done, keep blood pressure and estrogen levels in check, eat healthy, cardio...

really too many variables for anyone to answer definitively and there are FAR more qualified guys than me to answer. this is just my personal philosphy.

i would love to hear DC and phil answer this

Me 2

I guess years ago when the mind was less mindful many didn't think about the effects ... & things seem to be changing as folks get older.

But, if you took moderate to low doses b/c you were never going to get on stage but just to give you a bump. If your the guy who has trained since a teenager and now in your 30's like so many.

Things like hardening of arteries and stuff like that, enlarged heart. In the grand scheme of things this may be way over thinking. But I think if there is a safer way maybe to do it, people would want to know.

I know its no guaranteed proteciton, but I guess explain to me if it is ok to me how much you can run a week and still be in the healthy range?

Sorry, if I am being thick headed, more curious than anything.