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Strange recent prolonged shoulder issue

Knight9

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Did they say where the supra tears where?? Articular, bursal? Footprint/myotend junction?

Given that they are partial thickness tears they MIGHT be amenable to other forms of treatment but it also sorta depends how messed up the tendons are in general. My other forms of treatment i mean rest, PRP, things that may increase tendon healing but it depends on a few factors. But if your just gonna keep injuring them nothing u do is gonna help.

The slap tear is gonna be fun to deal with...your biceps is just gonna keep on pulling on it that that isnt gonna heal...

In general assuming you do no invasive treatments id refrain from doing exercise movements which narrow your outlet so nothing which ABducts your humerus past like 80 degrees and no overhead movements ofcourse. Keep that in mind if you bench elbows flared. Since they are calling impingement once you start narrowing that outlet your gonna be effing up ur tendons bit by bit until you have a bigger issue.

As for your slap year.... your long head of biceps is gonna keep on pulling on that. So in my opinion you have to take the pressure off that. thats kinda tough but if it were my shoulder id try to limit positions that are actively pulling on it moreso then others ( i.e incline dumbell curls ). Id try shifting some of the force to the elbow and keep pressure off the shoulder. So id do more preacher bench work, hammer curls etc.

The left tear @ 40%(6mm) is an anterior articular surface tear of the supraspinatus.
Right tear is 20% (5mm) anterior bursal surface tear.

Also got my knee mri's back which show some meniscal degeneration on one..and the other one is seen as mild..both normal. Old Osgood Schlatter disease is also seen from when I was a teen.

Neck mri: Mild degeneration which is said to be normal. Very small disc protrusions at C4-5, C5-6, and C6-7. None are big enough to touch the spinal cord or nerves so he doubts the neck is contributing to my arm pain or slight atrophy of the triceps etc.
 

MR. BMJ

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I need to have mine looked at big time too!

Good job Knight, hope it works well for you bud. After missing the gym for like 1-1/2 years again and just getting back into it the last few months since summer, it would be crushing to take off another 6-9+ months post-surgery...though i know it would be my best course:( Ugh....FML! Let us know what you decide man:)
 

danieltx

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Knight9 - any particular exercises or other training components you feel contributed to this?
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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Mine flare up too. I back off pressing and readdress my serratus and subscap training (been doing this rehab for over a decade and I echo @Kaladryn you'll probably need similar training permanently).

For whatever reason push downs actually make my impingement feel better so I can still hit triceps at least and work the mind muscle connection.

Front raises still work through my flare ups so I tend to just set pressing aside.

I wasn't meant to be a beast I guess lol

Very interested in this thread and I send sincere thanks to the big contributors here.
 

Knight9

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Knight9 - any particular exercises or other training components you feel contributed to this?
I often incline pressed 130-150s...
While at times, my shoulders would have various aches and pains-in the last few years, my left shoulder had become less stable. So after kicking the weights up, it would be a slightly less smooth transition into that first rep because of the initial stabilization of the weight. It would really only happen on significantly heavy pressing. But again..it just seemed like a stability issue that honestly felt like one day was going to become a large issue where it just gave out. Thankfully, that never happened. Over the last few years I would also have an ache sometimes in my rear delt/triceps area when I would heavily work triceps. I would usually just have to stretch it and in a few hours or by the next day it would be ok.

This time, in March when this major injury or slew of injuries happened..it was after I had pressed 150s for 8-10 twice and went on with my workout. I woke up in the middle of the night with my scapula/rear delt/tricep aching like a MF. The next 30 or so days were terrible and painful where nothing felt good and my sleep was majorly compromised. No matter which way I settled, the pain would shift and it would hurt. It got marginally better and due to the lockdown I pretty much stayed out of the gym until early to mid July(I went maybe 5-6x in 100 days and the workouts were not as intense).

Ive been going to the gym 3-4 days a week the last few months and while I have still gotten up to 100-120 several times on incline presses, I back off because I don't want to go through the prolonged agony again. I went to Georgia to see a friend who is a doctor and got all the MRI's to really see what was going on and now I know.

I will almost certainly have surgery on my left shoulder and am undecided on the right. I was told that if I wasn't moving to the west coast soon, I could simply take the 75minute flight to Atlanta three times in a six week period to get three PRP injections on my right side. Unfortunately that won't be convenient or possible living on the other side of the country.
 

Knight9

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Mine flare up too. I back off pressing and readdress my serratus and subscap training (been doing this rehab for over a decade and I echo @Kaladryn you'll probably need similar training permanently).

For whatever reason push downs actually make my impingement feel better so I can still hit triceps at least and work the mind muscle connection.

Front raises still work through my flare ups so I tend to just set pressing aside.

I wasn't meant to be a beast I guess lol

Very interested in this thread and I send sincere thanks to the big contributors here.

My strength is compromised. I used to put 4-5 45s on each side of a hammer incline and now I can get two and a 25 on each side..but anything more than that-and my body shifts of my left arm isn't pushing up at the same pace as my right. My shoulder roundness/cap also seems flattened out on my left compared to my right and there seems to be slight atrophy in my biceps..and more noticeably my triceps(the bow of the long head). I want my shoulder functionality, strength and appearance to return-so surgery on my left side seems inevitable.
 

gotgame

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The left tear @ 40%(6mm) is an anterior articular surface tear of the supraspinatus.
Right tear is 20% (5mm) anterior bursal surface tear.

Also got my knee mri's back which show some meniscal degeneration on one..and the other one is seen as mild..both normal. Old Osgood Schlatter disease is also seen from when I was a teen.

Neck mri: Mild degeneration which is said to be normal. Very small disc protrusions at C4-5, C5-6, and C6-7. None are big enough to touch the spinal cord or nerves so he doubts the neck is contributing to my arm pain or slight atrophy of the triceps etc.

Left: Ok so 6mm AP isnt too bad. That anterior most articular surface is just known to be tearing first and is in my opinion the most common place. Im not convinced based on the MRI report that what they are calling is the result of outlet impingement. if it was getting impinged by say an osteophyte of or something projecting down your gonna be getting more bursal sided issues and they would be talking about bad tendinosis in addition to the tear.

The SLAP tear complicates things a bit. Its tough...because the more definitive type approach is to get it repaired and im still slighly favoring that because of the SLAP tear. Its just ive seen so many guys have chronic shoulder issues after getting labral repair. So much so that is have a bad tear and i just left it for the last 10 year. Hasnt gotten worse or better.

You could probably have some generalized healing of the articular tear of the supra if you took time off from the gym and that may respond to PRP but its more unlikely to respond because its on the articular surface so how the heck is it gonna reattach itself to any significant degree. It probably will just scar down to the adjacent tendon but 6mm isnt too bad.

With that said.... if you have surgery and go back to doing what you are doing now it will FAIL and you will be worse off. No reason to be lifting such heavy weights. Our connective tissues can only take so much. So if you just gonna be going back do doing that sorta things then dont even bother as it will eventually fail and things will be all messed up worse.

Right: I personally wouldnt get it repaired. Id take time off. Consider PRP ( i know some guys in socal. i no longer do PRP on a regular basis as some of my referring clinicians thought i was stealing there patients lol). That could be secondary to a degree of impingement so you gotta limit that.


You need to think about taking time off, healing, and then change how you approach lifting. Gotta train smarter or you are gonna do a lot of damage eventually.
 

BALDNAZI

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Get the surgery. My right one was repaired in 2017 and feels great now. I had a full rupture of the supraspinatus along with some other things in there that had to get cleaned up.

My left hasn’t felt good in years and like you effects all my pressing movements, it was trashed. Left triceps and biceps have suffered sizewise as well since I can’t push like i need to. I had a bad fall at work recently and felt a nice pop and tear in it, so now I really couldn’t delay the inevitable

MRI showed from my surgeons report “ Left shoulder rotator cuff tears including supraspinatus and subscap, SLAP tear, subluxed biceps, AC separation upon derangement and mild arthritic changes.”

His plan is “left shoulder arthroscopy including but not limited to rotator cuff repair inducing possible subscap repair, subacromial decompression, distal clavicle excision, biceps tenodesis, debridement of the surgery”

So we have a mix of old and new injuries in there along with arthritis. I really have no choice but to go through with it because my career involves a lot of heavy labor and I want to continue to lifting in the gym. I’m 45 now and it won’t get better from here, I need it done.

Ortho even said it’s a ticking time bomb considering how much stress I put my upper body through.

Do what you feel is best but I don’t mind losing the 6-9 months because I know the end result will be to my benefit. Good luck bro
 

tornquad201

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Biceps tendon is definitely probably involved. Either the long head, which passes through the AC joint and attaches to basically the backside of the scapula, or the short head which attaches near the labrum. Subscapularis or pec minor injury is possible as well. Just find a good PT, chances are it will fairly easy to diagnose without imagining, and if you do need imaging, they will know.

Physical Therapists are the most underused resource in bodybuilding.
Would stretching be enough
 

tkav1980

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Let's rewind about three weeks. I was feeling an ache in my left scapular area so I decided to get to the gym(even though I had been avoiding going to it as often with the recent outbreak). So I go to the gym and do some pulldowns to pump the area full of blood and stretch it out. My training partner shows up and wants to do chest so I oblige and we start warming up on dumbbell incline. I only do incline work...I have probably only flat benched a dozen times or less in the last decade or more. Aside from that, I do a flat press machine if anything.

DB Inclines....warmed up with sets of 45,55 and 70. Jumped to 100, 120 or 130...all good and feeling good. I did two sets of 150s for 7-8 reps each and then moved onto other movements. Full disclosure my left shoulder has had something minorly wonky with it for years. It's hard to describe but it will crackle(not crack, but crackle) sometimes when I take my shirt off...it's hard to externally rotate..and it feels less stable under heavy weight. Also...when i scratch my back or pick at something and use a corner of a wall or entertainment center to push my elbow back so my hand can reach further behind me...SOMETIMES...especially the day of or after a pressing day it can be hard to get back rotated frontwards and back over/infront of my head. Sometimes I literally have to help it with my other hand.

I felt pretty good about the training session as I hadn't pressed 150s in likley 6-8 months. I go home and eat and shower and eventually sleep. I wake up in the middle of the night and my shoulder/chest tie in area is in a lot of discomfort. I feel like it could be the onset of DOMS in the tie-in but my shoulder feels like its inflamed and I would have to take it easy a few days. FOUR days of pain and discomfort. Somehow I ended up going back to the gym and got some blood flowing and it felt fine...for the time being. Several hours later it had returned although not quite as bad at first. These initial times for several days it felt like I had maybe torn something in my rear delt...it was painful but it would depend how I layed on the bed. I couldn't sleep on my right side..because my left shoulder would sulk down and be in pain...and no way I could sleep on my left side. On my stomach, pain would usually feel like it was at the front of my shoulder..but on my back it would feel like it was my rear delt. Then my neck and trap started to ache/hurt...then my left arm would feel weak...my tricep would ache(the long head)...the claw would spasm at times. My inner elbow would hurt and I would feel a 'pulsating' sensation in the meaty part of my forearm near my elbow if it was at a 90 degree angle. My elbow...forearm...and wrist would seem to crack more often. I would have tingling in my fingertips at times and my overall arm just felt like it was generally week and slightly unstable. Occasionally I could pinpoint sharp pain where my pectoral and underarm meet. No bruising or swelling anywhere ever through all of this.
It was 17-18 days of borderline misery and extreme annoyance/discomfort and the last 48 hrs it has seemed to tone down a bit but it still there to a less varying dergree...except in small waves which is usually alleviated by sleep. Other things that would help during this time was hot showers, standing up(not sitting or laying), and oddly enough..the last couple days taking a pre workout has alleviate the dull aches and pains I was feeling. It makes no sense to me how that has happened.

So started as a scapula ache...
Trained and turned into a Delt/pec tie in problem that progressed to triceps, trap, neck, down the arm..tingly fingers issue. Id say for 18 days I was at a 75-80% discomfort level and now I'm in the 25-30% range.

Please contribute with your knowledge fellas. What is going
 
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Kaladryn

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Both your rotator tears aren't that bad, repairs are done when the tendon detaches completely or is so torn it will detach completely, 5 and 6mm isn't that bad. The recovery from partial and full repair is about the same also. The supraspinatus passes through the AC joint also, in fact, an inflamed supraspinatus often contributes to impingement. BTW tingling down the arm is probably biceps tendon impinging, I know that feeling well.

Gotgame is correct about poor outcomes on slap repairs, and your symptoms from that part are probably minimal.

I personally looked into PRP and was told by a very good doctor who specializes in it that it doesn't work for torn tendons (he also said that most doctors wouldn't tell me that and will sell me the PRP anyway), he also said it won't do much for my labrum issues (which are extensive). Your case may be different but just be aware that they will often BS you about the type of thing PRP works on.

All weightlifters deal with impingement eventually for the most part, unless they take preventive action beforehand. Jay Cutler is a good example of someone who prevented impingement issues with lots of therapy (I strongly recommend following Jay's therapist on Instagram: paintherapy). Btw, ultimately the problem lies in using benches to support the scapula.
 

Kaladryn

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Would stretching be enough
I don't know if this is a troll post or what, but stretching really doesn't do very much, in most cases where stretching seems effective, the benefit can often be traced to something else, such as isometrically contracting opposing muscles. Muscles almost always get tight from imbalances (usually in opposing muscle groups) which are usually neurological in origin.
 

tornquad201

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I don't know if this is a troll post or what, but stretching really doesn't do very much, in most cases where stretching seems effective, the benefit can often be traced to something else, such as isometrically contracting opposing muscles. Muscles almost always get tight from imbalances (usually in opposing muscle groups) which are usually neurological in origin.
Thank you and wasn’t a troll post
 

DarrenG29

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It sucks I tore my labrum which I think it is the issue

getting mri soon just waiting on the letter then surgery
got calcium build up in the shoulder and it cracks pops every time I move it dull ache not stable could feel the ball in the socket move in and out

used bcp157 tb500 and plenty rotator cuff work also read Dante on the broom method and got some range but still not great still needs work

I did it warming up complete contraction touching dumbbell on high incline then did it

then it did the same on my right but at the front of the deltoid luckily not is severe

won’t ever do high incline again.
 

m314

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The original post sounded like what I was going through in 2019 / 2020. I had a weird tingling feeling in my shoulder and shoulder blade area that got progressively worse along with shoulder pain while lifting. It eventually turned into a tingly / increasingly painful feeling that was radiating down my arm to my hand. In November 2019, I lost all my strength in my right arm almost overnight. I couldn't lift it over shoulder level at all. I stupidly kept trying to lift as that side atrophied until I tore a rotator cuff a couple months later.

The root of my problem was in my neck. I couldn't get the rotator cuff fixed or do physical therapy when the nerve signals weren't getting to the muscles on that side. I ended up getting discectomy surgery in March. That completely fixed the numbness and weakness on that side along with the pain radiating down my arm.

I still have the torn rotator cuff, but it feels somewhat stable now after physical therapy. The muscles on the right side are still significantly smaller than the left, but it's getting better now that I have access to a gym. Yesterday my left arm was 18.5" while my right was 17.5". I'm hoping they'll balance out at some point this year.

I tore the labrum on the left side in 2004 and recovered (mostly) with physical therapy instead of surgery. Now I don't notice it at all if I keep up with the physical therapy exercises. I'm hoping the rotator cuff on the right side will be like that too. I'm tired of surgeries.
 

Bumpygooch

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Wondering how this resolved for OP, as I sit in here in a sling nearly 6 weeks removed from shoulder surgery.
 

sgtfury

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i own a pain management clinic and do PRP procedures daily. PRP will help with everything and it will help reduce all of the inner joint inflammation. The supra tears have to heal....I would rest....avoid all the exercises that flare it up. PRP will help in the healing and as the supra tears heal and the inflammation reduces, less stress will be induced on the labrum. i have many patients that have labrums that are destroyed and they have avoided surgery. something to consider.....weightlifting is a incredible stress and destructive factor on the joints. as we get older, we have to modify our programs.
 

DarrenG29

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i own a pain management clinic and do PRP procedures daily. PRP will help with everything and it will help reduce all of the inner joint inflammation. The supra tears have to heal....I would rest....avoid all the exercises that flare it up. PRP will help in the healing and as the supra tears heal and the inflammation reduces, less stress will be induced on the labrum. i have many patients that have labrums that are destroyed and they have avoided surgery. something to consider.....weightlifting is a incredible stress and destructive factor on the joints. as we get older, we have to modify our programs.
Would surgery not be the best choice for the future and prp just for niggles everything I’ve read said surgery is 98 effective and the best route as once it’s completely torn

I’m looking into surgery hopefully after mri as the shoulder doesn’t feel stable like my right which also has some niggles which I’d say prp would help over surgery
 

sgtfury

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Would surgery not be the best choice for the future and prp just for niggles everything I’ve read said surgery is 98 effective and the best route as once it’s completely torn

I’m looking into surgery hopefully after mri as the shoulder doesn’t feel stable like my right which also has some niggles which I’d say prp would help over surgery
imo surgery is the only option once its completely torn
 

DarrenG29

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imo surgery is the only option once its completely torn
Yeah I I think that’s needed soon will tell but hopefully with hgh etc after surgery it heals quick I did read it can make tendons weaker hgh in the healing process or give wrong collagen production if using say deca but not sure. But one thing since using hgh past 2 years that’s when I’ve gotten injury’s
 

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