STRESSED..buyin new/used car

[phatkid77]

so the wife and I are in the market for a bigger vehicle...our pice point has us at a 2003-2004 HONDA ODYSSEY EX-L, around $17000 all in, about 2g more then i want to spend....also on the list is a same yr TOYOTA SIENNA, same $

makes me sick dealing with car dealers, i dont mind them making money off me, but dont want to get fleeced....you basically have to call them a liar

buddy on my hockey team said he would give me best price on a 2002 EXL with 72000km, asking $15500 fro it, i really doubt he will go where i want for an 2002....

THEN , i see HYUNDAI tucsons are offering (like most) cash prices...soooo

a 2008-9, tucson GLS with leather is 26000-6000.....then you get warranty and shit......FUUUUUCK....

anyone have any wisdom here...

thanks

phats

 

[mexikaz]

ask around and try to find someone who works at dealership or someone who knows someone who works at a dealership.then get them to hook up and take u to those dealer only auctions. u will come out way ahead.trust me its worth the effort.i pay this guy $200.00 to take me and i save between 2000-4000 depending on the make /model.think about

 

[phatkid77]

well, my uncle sells for hyundai, even then i think hes going to try and maximize his profit...
i have guy that can go to auctions....not sure if they are dealer tho?? i htink they are cars that the dealers pass on??

he said and 04 EXL with 60-80000km out the door from him (with his $800 fee) $16500.... dealer by me is asking $21000 i think..

problem is the last batch that was at this auction were 90000+km, he said those would be around $15000 all in>?

phats

 

[GoneForever]

We just bought a 2008 hyundai tuscon. lmt editon, all options,etc.. brand new. MSRP 23,900. We got it for 14,900 due to hail damage. THe hood and roof got hit bad but they can all be banged out. No paint damage, plus we dont mind how it looks. 100k 10year warranty and all. I think this was the deal of a century. Unfortunately these are very hard times to get financed. Im putting 7grand down and i've got an extremely high debt to income ratio which droped my fico from 720 in 2006 to 633 now but were approved at %15so payments are $199mo with the 7gs down or $330mo with nothing down.

 

[LEX]

My best advise....
-have financing before you go
-shop on ebay too there are a few auction houses that sell there and they have smoking deals....
-everything is negotiable.....especially now you have the power.....don't forget that when dealing with thses guys....


quick wrap of of last car I bought....found on in tx on net....called and was sold was 5g under blue book.....then found another one in px at a dealer...called down there and got details he said 23k.(still 5k under)..I told him pull it I am driving down from Vegas in two day too buy...

when I got there I had financing...they added on clear coat....vin etching and some other bullshit....I didnt pay for anything....had to walk out the door twice on those....so they threw it in (yea whatever) then they tried the finance game with me....Already had it....then the warranty bs...started at 4000 bucks....I checked ahead of time and knew that wholesale was 900 bucks....we played some games back and forth and I walked out again....they called me back...and gave it to me for 1000.....


When I first got there I talled to the sales manager and we talked about how bad the economy was and how slow they are.....I rode that pony all day long....evrytime I walked out I said listen I dont want to waste anymore of your time I can see there is a line of people behind me trying to get in here to buy a car....thanks for your time....


in a nutshell....if you can get financed you are a rare gem to these guys right now....make sure you find the best price that your car is selling for in the world...and go in and get that price.....it may take all day they will try to play you all day....but it can be done.....good luck

 

[Phidias]

Do they only sell Japanese or Asian cars in America now?

 

[phatkid77]

dolnt need financing... have cash....i jus that the whole poker game face bullshit..

phats

 

[finny]

Hmmm, you're all over the place in my opinion. First, you said you want a bigger vehicle, hence the van. Then, you're switching to a Tuscon? You know it is much, much smaller vehicle than a van?

I would decide what type of vehicle I want first. What will I be using it for? Do I mind paying more for gas? Do I need a 4x4/AWD (personally, my wife and I decided to stick with 4x4/AWD vehicles for additional safety in winter). Do I want something more comfortable, bigger?

Once you decide on the type of the vehicle, then I would pick a price point. You seem to be somewhat flexible as far as the price point, depending if you're getting more bang for the buck. Once you're at this point, now you have an option of going Japanese, used and paying a bit of a premium, depending on size and fuel consumption or Korean domestic and you might squeeze in a brand new vehicle for a couple of thousand $ more.

I rarely set foot at the dealership - just to many f****ng games. I usually go there to test drive the vehicle and then sent them a fax/e-mail with my offer or speak to that person directly. Most of the time I deal with dealership's managers either new car or lease - they can do the same thing for you. Then, once we settle on something, I give them a day or two and then tell them some white lie that I have another offer from a different dealership - just to squeeze in an additional 500-1000 bucks.

 

[phatkid77]

well, im not all over the place, thw wife THINKS she NEEDS the van, im not convinced, i too would like one, but if better MPG in the TUCSON and it fits us fine, i would like that....

phats

 

[bigman1]

NEVER EVER BUY NEW, you always lose on those deals it will not matter even if you get the employee discount which by the way most places have dropped tyhe % so much over the last few years it reallly just may cover tax anymore. If I was you I would shop at CARMAX, they always have the best deals and if you do not like it you can bring it back with in three days or 500 miles I believe and pick something else. Plus you can shop online and they bring a car from anywhere. I will never ever buy from a dealer again unless I know the guy to be a friend and a good one because salespeople are the biggest liars on the face of the earth!!!! CARMAX all the way

 

[Sassy]

I have bought both used and new cars, and from my experience I will not buy another new car again. You pay their outrageous price only to end up owning more than it's worth with in a couple of months if you are financing it. Now you do have some advantage because you are paying cash; however, you are still going to get nailed when you drive it off the lot. Like others have mention that devalue for just driving it off the lot can be a lot of money depending on the type car. People trade cars in all the time even ones that are less than a year old... let them take the devaluation not you. With just a little research you can determine the devalue before you actually buy it.

If you buy a used car, be sure and have it check out by a trusted mechanic maybe even a bodyshop guy. In ATl there use to be a company called Car Checkers of America, that will check out used cars for around $100 and tell you if it's been wrecked, how bad and what was done to fix it. They would also tell you if anything was wrong with it. They could give you a value of the car. Now they can't predict what will go wrong with it. We were looking at a new model Camry that the owner (a little old lady) told us had been in a minor fender bender. Turned out the car was in a major wreck and the frame had to be straighted out... tons of body work had been done. When we confronted her about it, she confused that it was in a major wreck. Best advise is have it check out.

I had a car with major transmission problems, so I decided I wanted to trade it and get another. I was in a very bad wreck and the insurance company fixed the car, but it continued to have problems. I found car I like at a dealership, and the dealership worked out a trade value for it. One day right after I traded it my sister-in-law follows a car just like my old one to her work one day. She asked the owner about the car and she got it from the same dealership. Turned out to be my old car... the poor owner bought it and the dealer never repaired it. She was having tons of problems with it. The only saving thing was that she bought a warranty. If buying a used car from a dealer, get a warranty.

• check out what cars were worth before I looked at them using edmunds.com, kelly blue book etc.
• use Car Fax to get a report (great tool to use)
• have the car check out by a reliable mechanic
• Check into a warranty for use car. (normally I don't buy into extended warranties, but you just never know what a used car's been put through)

Don't get caught up by a high pressure sales rep. I dealt with two and my intuition said wait don't rush into to this. There will be something else. I was without a car totally because mine had been total. I couldn't afford a rental and was having to catch rides because I didn't live near any family at the time. I was pretty desperate to get a car. When I had the cars check out, there was questionable things about both of them. Then out of the blue I found a perfect fit, and it's been a great car.

There is a website that gives good advise on buying cars both new and used. I wouldn't buy into what they are selling, but the advise is good... www.carbuyingtips.com

good luck...

 

[Squeet]

Try craigslist

Try cragslist.

 

[blackhole]

bro - YOU have the cash YOU decide the deal. i would not go to a car dealership, they will screw you, their JOB is to screw you.

also like others said NEVER buy brand new, the instant you drive it off the lot it loses value. buy used.

dont worry so much where you buy a car, as what kind of car you buy. for example a used BMW with 50000 miles is still FAR superior to a brand new hyundai, in every respect and will outlast it, even though 1 is used and 1 is new.

personally i love lincolns. i used to work at a lincoln dealership (as a mechanic) and i see how they take care of customers and how ford motor co. does service. i remember this one time a brand new lincoln town car with 6000 miles had a tiny bit of oil seepage from a valve cover gasket. no one would have ever noticed other than it was some old guy driving it and they notice everything. its a 20 minute fix with a 5 dollar gasket. i was floored when the service manager told me to replace the engine. you serious? its a 5 dollar part i said. he told me ford motor company wanted to have the engine sent back to their lab to see what was wrong with it, cause a brand new engine shouldnt have that problem!!!!

the purpose of this long winded story was to make a point about what kind of car you get, if you choose upper end cars, they will have been maintained far better than a cheapo car. many used cars are better quality than new cars, and you can get them for cheap.

i have had success with ebay many times. people say ebay is stupid cause you dont know anything about where you buy it from. really? think about it if you go to a local new or used car dealer, how much do you really know about them? how many people do you personally know that got a car there? maybe at most 10 people? on ebay you can check seller feedback - some of those guys have THOUSANDS of feedback. thats literally thousands of people who used that seller and has something good to say. a lot better than a local place in my opinion.

 

[finny]

Personally, I've never understood people's argument of depreciation and the car loosing value once you drive it off the lot - and this being the sole argument for buying used.

The car is not an investment (unless it's vintage, etc). I'm assuming those buying one, will hold it for at least 5 years. Now, what do you care if the car, on paper looses 20% off its value once you drive it off the lot? Does not make sense to me. You're not going to turn around and sell it. You bought it for your use and hopefully you will keep it for the next 5-10 years.

Pros for new:
- warranty
- lower interest financing
- piece of mind (should not need much maintenance in the first 5 years of ownership) - reliable

Cons for new:
- higher up front price

Pros for old:
- lower initial price

Cons for old:
- don't know if you're getting somebody else's problem
- higher borrowing rate
- require more maintenance from the start


Personally, I have bought used and new before. I will stick with new as I like to keep my vehicles longer plus I know what I'm getting (most of the time). When buying a used van, SUV etc, you running a risk that the other person selling it was towing with the vehicle and a lot of those guys way overload those vehicles - future transmission and engine problems.

Right now, I would probably be willing to go used, get a 2006-2007 vehicle with 15-30,000km on it. You still get some warranty. Right now, the deals seem to be on SUVs due to gas prices. If I were in a market for a new SUV, I would probably pick up a luxury suv for a pretty good price.

 

[Pekkerwood]

Phat:

Just some general advice. I typically buy only used cars, last one had 8k on it. The only new car I've ever bought was for a family member. Some things I try to do:

1) I start deciding a couple months b4 I want to buy.
2) I search on Edmunds.com for reviews, comparisons of features. Extra features can make a differnce of thousands of dollars for the same vehicle and this helps me be informed.
3) Most models will have a forum for users/mechanics/enthusiest of that brand and or model. Search under google groups. I typically peruse these groups b4 buying to check for common failure items and I have even discovered new features that I didn't know my car had.
4) As far as mileage, in general, there is a penalty for high mileage, being over 12K to 15K per year, but there is no real added value for low mileage unless its extremely low. Example: My brother just sold a 95 Mustang with 11k miles. That was low.
5) When examining prices on Edmunds.com or Kelleybluebook.com, I try to buy at or below the wholesale price. Please note that this data is sometimes aggragated for more than ninety days on some sites and we are in a severely decling market.
6) Don't believe your friends are giving you the best deal. Unless they were the previous owner of the car they know little about it.
7) Try to buy a car that the service records are available. When you buy a Lexus or Mercedes, I know a dealer can pull the VIN number and tell me if all scheduled maintenance was done and was any mainentance required but declined by owner. Some people trade in an the eve of a big repair and this is a way to flesh it out.
8) Check carfax. A repaired car may not be a big deal to you, but it will be when you resell it. I mark on carfax will hammer the price even if the repaire was inconsequential at times.
9)Please note their is a noted drop in value of cars at 36-48 months old because of lease turn ins, and right after a cars warranty expires.
10) Make the dealers know you are a cash buyer and bring proof.
11) Make your offer and be prepared to walk away, and them do it. They will call back. Even if they do not remember you are in a declining market and a declining credit market. They need you worse than you need them.


Hope this helps.

Pekkerwood

 

[BigCanuck]

A vehicle is a depreciating asset of course.What you want to do is find a vehicle that still has warranty left but somone else has already paid for the first 2 or 3 year hit on the depreciation.Two things,cash will not get you a better deal.This is because the dealer gets paid by the finance institutions for getting them business,even if it is there own company ie Ford car,Ford Credit.The second thing to remember,there is usually more markup in a used vehicle than a new one.What you need to do is find an 05 or 06 model even if it means financing part of it.You should be able to get a good rate with the amount of money you have down.Look for a vehicle with no more than 20k miles per year on it.This is the best way to go,you`ll have an almost new car with a small monthly payment.

 

[VNV]

for example a used BMW with 50000 miles is still FAR superior to a brand new hyundai, in every respect and will outlast it, even though 1 is used and 1 is new.

I would definitely NOT agree. Have you ever owned a BMW?

 

[Beta]

The BMW is a better car for sure, but maintenance is no joke...which you should know going into it.

I wouldn't say a camry is better than a 540i, but we know which one will last the long haul, particularly in the hands of someone who does less than adequate maintenance.

 

[blackhole]

I would definitely NOT agree. Have you ever owned a BMW?

actually i have not. maybe i should have used a different example. i guess the idea i was trying to convey is that a used car that is initially a top notch vehicle, is still mechanically superior to a new 'crap' car. new doesnt always mean good. some new cars are made with shit parts and sub standard manufaturing methods.

without sounding biased i have a few opinions about cars which are generally known to be good.

Camry as someone else said - i have heard endless great things about them. Toyota in general (that means Lexus too)

Honda's have a great reputation for reliability. (that means Acura too)

I persoanlly love Lincolns, i always get over 200,000 out of them - and this is when i sell them they still run great!!!!

Mechanically a rear wheel drive vehicle will always outlast a front wheel drive. this is not opinion, rear wheel drive simply have much less to go wrong with them. fronts have cv shafts that go, crappy hubs that ALWAYS whine and go bad, broken flex exhaust coming off the manifold, broken front motor mounts, torque steer, etc. these are general things about fronts , of course everyone has a good experince with something, and a and bad experience with the same thing.

WARRANTY read this:

don't be fooled by advertised warrantys. most people ONLY look at the length of time and how many miles. for example a person seeing a 3 year 36000 miles warranty and a 5 year 50000 would prefer longer one.

DECEPTION read the fine print of the warranty!!!!
i will give one example that i know of from experience:
a friend of mine (female) wanted to buy a Hyundai cause of the 10 year 100000 mile warranty. she asked me to come with her cause i worked in the auto industry. i read the fine print - its BOGUS. they dont cover crap. of course most people know about 'wear items' like brakes arent covered. but Hyundai considers almost everything a wear item. seriously rod bearings, crank bearings, cam bearings, piston rings, etc. these items do wear but for all intents and purposed should last indefinately. (kinda like saying paint is a wear item cause when it rains you are loosing a few molecules of it) things like these are not covered under their warranty. thats absurd, thats means if you buy a new hyundai and after 10000 miles the engine blows cause of a bad crank bearing - its not covered. thats BS. you all know if it were ford, honda, toyota, chrysler, etc. they would obviously fix it. they trick you with that long advertised warranty, read the fine print.
when i worked at lincoln (2000), they had a 4 year 50000 miles warranty, but they cover EVERYTHING and i mean everything. they would even replace shit like brakes even though they really didnt have to. great customer service. never gave anyone a hard time. also unkown to most people every lincoln has a 10 year 100000 anti-corrosion warranty. that mean that ANY person who owns ANY Lincoln new or used that is less than 10 years old and less than 100000 miles can have ANY rust, or any peeling on the rims fixed for free. yes you read that right

i picked these two cause these are ones i know about, i'm sure other car companies offer fine warranties, and others some are probably crap. read the fine print

 

[GoneForever]

Hyundai is one of the only warranties i've really seen who actually fix whatever you want. The first 60k miles if a sticker falls off its replaced and after that the 100k powertrain warranty is great. I absolutly hate spending thousands of dollars on fixing car probs and I didnt wanna lease, thats why we will probably only go with hyundai for now on, unless toyota can match their warranty.

Btw, the wear items like crank bearing,etc.. they can only void the warranty if they can prove you abused the ware and didnt maintain the car.