T-nation is against MK-677? Do you agree?

[NGL34]

I like Chirstian, but his statements on MK-677 are riddled with both inaccuracy and personal opinion.

Anyone who makes a living selling these types of productS is surely going to have a bais towards them.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Anyone who makes a living selling these types of productS is surely going to have a bais towards them.

Or, such a person is simply telling the truth. Not everyone who sells products lies about them. There are plenty of ethical people in this industry, just like any other industry. The bottom line is that his statement was "riddled with both inaccuracy and personal opinion", just like I said before. If you doubt this, take the time and do the research. I have. We don't have to rely on guesswork here. Facts are facts.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Anyone who makes a living selling these types of productS is surely going to have a bais towards them.

As far decreases in insulin sensitivity is concerned, ANY GH peptide/secretagogue, as well as GH itself, will cause a decrease in insulin sensitivity. This is common knowledge. However, the degree to which this occurs varies depending on both dose, as well as personal response. Not everyone s affected to the same degree. Furthermore, this side effect can be largely controlled through the use of insulin sensitizers, such as berberine or metformin.

He also said that MK "will cause BP to skyrocket". That's a pretty definitive statement and therefore incorrect. MK's ability to increase BP, like many other PEDs (including steroids) is dependent on personal response. There are many people who experience only mild increases in BP when taking MK. Secondly, and of significant relevance, is that MK's ability to increase BO drops substantially with extended use. Most of the BP increase associated with MK use is related to water retention. Not only does MK's ability to cause water retention vary significantly between people, but after just a couple weeks of use, water retention drops off dramatically, leaving most people with little to no increase in BP. So, both personal response and duration of use play a big role in this, which, once again, makes his statement inaccurate.

His next inaccurate statement is related to the last, in which he claims MK causes massive water retention. This side effect is also dependent on personal response and duration of use. People can experience either a little or a lot, but regardless of the person, most of it falls off after a few weeks of use.

His last claim it completely inaccurate, on all levels. He claims that MK will cause inhibition of endogenous GH production because of its long duration of action. This statement shows he doesn't understand the basic mechanism on which MK functions. MK INCREASES natural production. It is not like exogenous GH or steroids, in which you are bringing an outside form of the hormone into your body. MK boosts your body's OWN ability to increase GH. As soon as it is discontinued the body's production simply goes back to normal. There are tons of clinical trials which demonstrate this.

So, the next time you accuse someone of being "biased (which basically infers I was putting out inaccurate info), please do some research. Thanks.

 

[jeroendebleser]

I used to like T-Nation but I quickly realized it's a BS-, macho mentality spouting website. (You should see some of their agressive replies on FB when someone calls them out on something... It's overly macho and childish really) Most of their articles are written to sell their supplements as well. And the articles that aren't are almost always of the 'this magical workout will add an inch to your arms in a month's time' kind. Again, BS.

I don't trust them on anything anymore.

 

[Creep]

Because it’s a secretagogue and not exogenous, that implies that it causes the body to release its own GH...am I saying this correctly?

 

[Brofessor]

To be fair, it does cause many mini pulses or a "bleed" from the pituitary. If any of you were on DAT's site, he was not a fan of CJC-DAC that caused a bleed of GH as well (for similar reasons). Nothing the author at T-nation said is untrue. MK will fuck insulin sensitivity faster and it does bloat you and make you hold more water. I notice way more distention in midsection on it compared to running some Anke Bio greys.

The massive ghrelin / appetite issues with MK make it unappealing to me too. Its hard to control cravings on it IMO. I'd rather just use GH.

 

[Sandy Moore]

I've been using MK-677 for about 6 weeks. I felt a big difference within 6 days at 25 ml a day.

 

[opietaylor]

Because it’s a secretagogue and not exogenous, that implies that it causes the body to release its own GH...am I saying this correctly?

yes

 

[Mike Arnold]

To be fair, it does cause many mini pulses or a "bleed" from the pituitary. If any of you were on DAT's site, he was not a fan of CJC-DAC that caused a bleed of GH as well (for similar reasons).
At this point, Dat's proposal regarding GH bleed has been rejected by the bodybuilding community at large. It's what we now refer to as a "non-issue". Basically, he said that this "bleed" would reduce the product's effectiveness, but since then, both science and EXTENSIVE real-world experience has proven otherwise. The community has seen with its own eyes that his concerns were unfounded. Dat was certainly a smart guy (although his "smarts" were employed more to sell product than to educate others), but he was wrong about this.

Nothing the author at T-nation said is untrue.
He made multiple general, definitive statements, thereby making them untrue. When someone claims that MK will destroy your insulin sensitivity, cause massive water retention and wreck your blood pressure, their statement is untrue, as these side effects not only do NOT occur in everyone, but even when they do, they present themselves to varying degrees. Furthermore, many of these sides can be greatly mitigated or even entirely eliminated under the right circumstances. More importantly, the majority of them (water retention, blood pressure), dissipate within a few weeks of use.

For example, if I come on here and say that "testosterone causes massive hair loss, gyno and acne, so don't ever use it", would that statement be true? NOT if it is stated in a definitive, all-encompassing manner, as the author of the article did...because the reality is that many people do NOT experience hair loss or acne with testosterone. And as far as lipids go, it can vary tremendously from one person to the next, with personal response, dosage and duration of use all playing a major role in determining how likely testosterone is to cause this side effect.

It's no different with MK-677. Water retention varies from one person to the next...and after a few weeks of use, subcutaneous water retention goes away almost entirely. Its the same with blood pressure. When it comes to insulin sensitivity, MK-677 will adversely effect everyone in this regard (this pertains to all GH secretagogues, as well as GH itself), but again, the degree of severity varies from individual to individual. While this side effect can't be eliminated, it can be largely off-set through supplementation (metformin, berberine, etc.) and other means.

MK will fuck insulin sensitivity faster and it does bloat you and make you hold more water. I notice way more distention in midsection on it compared to running some Anke Bio greys.
See prior comment.

The massive ghrelin / appetite issues with MK make it unappealing to me too.
This can either be a pro or a con, depending on the reason MK is being used. If someone is dieting, it would obviously be an unwanted effect (MK-677 shouldn't be used as a fat-loss aide anyway, as it isn't effective in that regard), but if someone in the off-season struggles to eat enough food to maximize growth, it can be a godsend. Many people use it for this very reason an consider it one of its most important benefits. MK-677 is solely a pro-growth drug and should be employed as such. It should not be used as a fat loss agent. Anyone who does any in-depth research into ghrelin and its effects on fat loss/accumulation (both direct and indirect) will readily come to this conclusion. While MK-677 won't hinder fat loss, it won't assist with it, either. It is a wash.

Its hard to control cravings on it IMO. I'd rather just use GH.

....

 

[mikevegas]

Lots of claims with zero references provided - the classic internet "expert". I've used Mike Arnold's Somatozine for years and love it, I know for a fact it is effective from my own testing, and I've never had 10lbs of bloat while on it.

 

[w8tlifterty]

Tregar- I think you said your 196lb and 14% bf?? Not exactly a ringing endorsement for any of the things you take!? That's a lot of shit for, no offense, unimpressive stats.

 

[tregar]

Well, I was at 227 and 17.9% body fat a few months ago, so all the shit I did/do take + diet + cardio + workouts totally transformed by body, more than happy. I am 51, when I was in my 20's and 30's and up to age 35 I was around 13% body fat, all I ever wanted to do was get back to my past top shape, I've reached that with a ton of more muscle and strength, so very happy. The studies don't lie at ergolog on CLA + betaine, HMB, BCAA's, arachidonic acid, and the mk677 keeps me in the 18 year old igf-1 and gh range, you should have seen me 6 months ago, really bad shape. I can now go to the waterpark just like when I was younger (waterpark is right down the road) and receive compliments like I used to. Not to mention the mk677 is also the best smart drug I've ever taken, works wonders for energy & great mood/cognition:

2020 mk677 update:

2020 mk677 update

Update 6/4/2020 been on mk677 for 3rd year (7 months only spring/summer every year), started in March, now is June (4 months later) doing great! will take an igf-1 test again soon and post after being on it for 5 months in July. This is not a typo, using keto diet, mk677, trt, CLA & betaine...

www.professionalmuscle.com

hxxps://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/index.php?threads/2020-mk677-update.165297/

 

[tregar]

I had gotten out of shape when I started a business that now has sales around the world daily, so I sacrificed my physique to do something that meant alot to me. Working full time + starting a business on the side is not easy, but I did it, and then got back to the gym to stay there forever.

 

[tregar]

When you're insulin levels are low all day long (keto diet) and with fasting for long periods, mk677 does indeed kick ass for accelerating the fat-burning process. One pound a day of fat day after day for weeks on end is remarkable, with no loss of strength.

 

[w8tlifterty]

I

I had gotten out of shape when I started a business that now has sales around the world daily, so I sacrificed my physique to do something that meant alot to me. Working full time + starting a business on the side is not easy, but I did it, and then got back to the gym to stay there forever.

Wasnt really trying to talk shit man or put you down. If you're happy and accomplished, that's all that matters. It's my opinion that a few mg of test (10-20mg ed) and nothing else could have accomplished those stats and much more. As I age and at your age, I think the less drugs the better. If the pandemic has taught me anything, its I dont need all the 'fluff' I thought I did. Most of it is just a mental crutch. Do you man... you dont have to justify shit to us. That was just my opinion. I've been unimpressed w MK677 myself (other than the massive water retention which does indeed help w strength). I've never used MA's though, which do believe, w/o doubt is the best on the market.