T-nation is against MK-677? Do you agree?

[tregar]

By the time the waterpark opens, I will be down to 12% body fat....this is where the adjustment of the fats in the diet downward will accelerate the body fat loss, combined with fasting and cardio during the fast x 3 times a week. When I was younger in my 20's I could eat anything and not have to worry about bodyfat going up, but as I became older (over 35), the rules no longer applied, and insulin sensitivity is decreased, the battle begun with keto palumbo diet, cardio, and fasting, and supplements to keep bodyfat down. Putting on and maintaining muscle not a problem when older, it's the fat loss that is the main battle.

 

[tregar]

Diet in more detail (allows me to loose several percentage of body fat over a few months time) while maintaining all muscle mass:

See ergo-log study on why this works so well (intermittent fasting + cardio), loose twice the body fat and preserve all muscle:

"Rapid weight loss without losing muscle: combine intermittent fasting and cardio": https://www.ergo-log.com/rapid-weig...-combine-intermittent-fasting-and-cardio.html

Palumbo ketogenic diet (1 to 1.5 gram protein and 0.5 gram fats per lb of body weight) daily, eating only 8 hours of the day, and fasting 16 hours with running laps during the fast for cardio. Workout 3 days a week, and the running on non-workout days.

The RENPHO electronic body fat scale is super accurate and reads bodyfat percentage down to the .1 (1/10th percent). Also gives accurate muscle mass reading, and 6 other body readings, scale kicks ass, it is not all over the place, and you can read your bodyfat and musclemass daily, these scales have come a long ways over the years.

Have to look good at waterpark as get a pass every summer and go usually once to twice a week (right down the road).

Typical 1800 calorie day on the Palumbo keto diet:

Breakfast: 6 x-large eggs, keep 3 of the yolks, sunny side up along with 3 slices of fried lean smoked ham, eggs and ham all fried with a tiny bit of butter. Protein = 42 for the eggs + 12 for the ham = 57g total, add in 1/2 cup of oatmeal with 6 oz water (1/8th cup of that is milk) on preworkout days only. No oatmeal on non-workout days.

Lunch: 2 grilled chicken breast on a tray by itself from whataburger for four dollars and 1 small peeled avacado, protein = 80 grams

alternate lunch: Large plate of Panda bear chain terriaki chicken with super greens = 80 grams protein

alternate lunch: Golden corral buffet: small salad with tiny bit of blue cheese dressing + 6 yummy baked fish = 15g x 6 = 90g protein

alternate lunch: 1 flank steak with frozen cooked spinach, add in 1 tablespoon of heavy whipping cream or sour cream with the spinach = 80 grams

2:30 last meal of the day = 3 scoops of met-rx metamoysyn protein plus = 22g x 3 = 66g protein (300 calories) with 254almonds (good source of sodium and potassium for keto diet) = 150 calories.

Fast from 2:30 thru dinner and sleep until breakfast the next day. And run 3 to 4 laps at the beautiful park with the springs and lake for 20 to 25 minutes or use treadmill at home if raining.

Total protein = 200g daily.

 

[tregar]

In case you were wondering, even on an 1800 calorie deficit per day (500 calories lower per day)...

1) with the aid of 700mg primo a week, even on the calorie deficit, gains being made in the gym weekly, for example, still adding 10lbs per week to the leg press (4 x 45 plates on each side for 20 reps currently), and 5lbs per week to the thigh extension (up to 150 lbs currently). Leg curl up 2.5lbs per week for same reps.

2) Not only are gains being made, but reps increased as well by an extra 2 to 3 reps, which never happened before.

3) The weights were pushed nearly effortlessly, after the set, still felt like had more to give, amazed at the recovery ability, recuperation in the days to follow was greatly accelerated. Never felt so good in the gym, I believe the primo + having the GH and igf-1 levels of an 18 year old from the mk677 displayed a remarkable synergism. High anabolic dosage + high GH (the 25mg mk677 daily brought me to the level of 3.4iu of pharm grade GH from china) is definately a winner in my book.

4) Primo needs lots of protein to work with, taking in 200g of protein daily while in the calorie deficit ensures you will still make gains while loosing body fat weekly on the Palumbo keto diet. Studies have shown those on keto diets like this make the same amount of gains as there carb enriched counterparts. Just ensure you have plenty of protein and some fats to work with.

5) On Palumbo keto diet, glucogenesis is a max of 5g per hour, which works out to around 50 to 60g a day with fasting after 2:30pm thru dinner and sleep. This helps with workout recuperation, glycogen uptake into muscles, strength in the gym, without removing you from ketosis.

6) This study from ergo-log shows those on a fast and cardio still made gains in the gym muscle-wise while loosing fat at the same time:
"Experienced bodybuilders loose fat by intermittent fasting"
**broken link removed**

7) Spend money to buy supplements to last the whole year which aid in fat loss and muscle gain. This is what I take daily:

* 1 tablespoon flax seed a day
* 5 fish oil capsules a day (ergo log study shows more muscle with fish oil)
* 6g CLA per day (ergo log study shows several more lbs of lean muscle and more fat loss monthly at the same time)
* 8g HMB per day (several ergo-log studies on muscle mass and fat loss)
* 5g bcaa's pre-workout and pre-cardio (ergo-log study shows it preserves all your muscle, so no muscle breakdown if taken pre-cardo and pre-workout, highly anti-catabolic)
* 1.25g betaine twice a day (ergo-log study shows major muscle lean mass increases montly with a substantial loss of fat at same time)
* 1500mg arachidonic acid per-workout = increase pumps big time and extends muscle-soreness for a very long time, still active the next day. Studies at ergo-log show a 3.25lb lean muscle mass increase per 6 weeks compared to placebo (0.2lb)
* Taking 4 caps of tumeric greatly increases glucose and amino transport to muscle after a workout (see ergo-log)
* Taking 300mg of +R-ALA before every meal works even better than metformin studies show, this helps while on GH or mk677, even though my insulin and A1C measured completely normal when tested during the 7th month of taking mk677. Berberine is good to take too with it.

Anyhow, enjoy mk677 + some primo, if you should every try it, it is quite remarkable and nearly side effect free, steady gains and recuperation that will have you amazed, even in a calorie deficit.

 

[warlock]

20-30 mcg will do the trick, but simple serum glucose level will give a good indication

Thanks brother.

For this purpose of restoring insulin sensitivity (at 20-30mcg), would you take it before bed (with no carbs) or is there another time of the day where you think this would work better?

 

[allornothing]

I love MK677. I get blood work done 2-3 times a year and I have never seen a decrease in my insulin sensitivity. I also follow a keto to low carb diet most of the year. The pumps I get on MK are awesome. The only downside for me is the hunger pains when dieting. They seem to subside some after a few weeks but never completely go away for me.

Tregar do you take any Pepsin with your Betaine?

 

[Flex500]

In case you were wondering, even on an 1800 calorie deficit per day (500 calories lower per day)...

1) with the aid of 700mg primo a week, even on the calorie deficit, gains being made in the gym weekly, for example, still adding 10lbs per week to the leg press (4 x 45 plates on each side for 20 reps currently), and 5lbs per week to the thigh extension (up to 150 lbs currently). Leg curl up 2.5lbs per week for same reps.

2) Not only are gains being made, but reps increased as well by an extra 2 to 3 reps, which never happened before.

3) The weights were pushed nearly effortlessly, after the set, still felt like had more to give, amazed at the recovery ability, recuperation in the days to follow was greatly accelerated. Never felt so good in the gym, I believe the primo + having the GH and igf-1 levels of an 18 year old from the mk677 displayed a remarkable synergism. High anabolic dosage + high GH (the 25mg mk677 daily brought me to the level of 3.4iu of pharm grade GH from china) is definately a winner in my book.

4) Primo needs lots of protein to work with, taking in 200g of protein daily while in the calorie deficit ensures you will still make gains while loosing body fat weekly on the Palumbo keto diet. Studies have shown those on keto diets like this make the same amount of gains as there carb enriched counterparts. Just ensure you have plenty of protein and some fats to work with.

5) On Palumbo keto diet, glucogenesis is a max of 5g per hour, which works out to around 50 to 60g a day with fasting after 2:30pm thru dinner and sleep. This helps with workout recuperation, glycogen uptake into muscles, strength in the gym, without removing you from ketosis.

6) This study from ergo-log shows those on a fast and cardio still made gains in the gym muscle-wise while loosing fat at the same time:
"Experienced bodybuilders loose fat by intermittent fasting"
**broken link removed**

7) Spend money to buy supplements to last the whole year which aid in fat loss and muscle gain. This is what I take daily:

* 1 tablespoon flax seed a day
* 5 fish oil capsules a day (ergo log study shows more muscle with fish oil)
* 6g CLA per day (ergo log study shows several more lbs of lean muscle and more fat loss monthly at the same time)
* 8g HMB per day (several ergo-log studies on muscle mass and fat loss)
* 5g bcaa's pre-workout and pre-cardio (ergo-log study shows it preserves all your muscle, so no muscle breakdown if taken pre-cardo and pre-workout, highly anti-catabolic)
* 1.25g betaine twice a day (ergo-log study shows major muscle lean mass increases montly with a substantial loss of fat at same time)
* 1500mg arachidonic acid per-workout = increase pumps big time and extends muscle-soreness for a very long time, still active the next day. Studies at ergo-log show a 3.25lb lean muscle mass increase per 6 weeks compared to placebo (0.2lb)
* Taking 4 caps of tumeric greatly increases glucose and amino transport to muscle after a workout (see ergo-log)
* Taking 300mg of +R-ALA before every meal works even better than metformin studies show, this helps while on GH or mk677, even though my insulin and A1C measured completely normal when tested during the 7th month of taking mk677. Berberine is good to take too with it.

Anyhow, enjoy mk677 + some primo, if you should every try it, it is quite remarkable and nearly side effect free, steady gains and recuperation that will have you amazed, even in a calorie deficit.

you are correct on the arach acid. Interestingly enough I just came acrossed it on amazon from EA and found a bottle for $26 so what the hell I bought it and upon reading what you wrote only have been doing workout days only. Feels great, love it so far and I'm not a "supplement guy" (i literally have vitamin D, a few other health items and haven't bought a tub of protein in probably 3 years) but this stuff is great so far.

I also prefer a very similar diet, although, I do come unhinged on saturdays and end up with about 7,000 calories and 1,000 grams of carbs but the rest of my days around ~2,000 calories, and just oats or rice pre workout for carbs.

Never tried primo but you are peaking my interest lol. Thanks for all you've posted I like when people bring a ton of ideas and thoughts to the board. Even if we don't all agree on all the points I love seeing studies, bloods, and just lots of ideas we can all find things as we see fit and apply. Thanks man!

 

[warlock]

nice, tregar, thanks. i just ordered a couple of bottles, looking to give it an 8 week run. i'm natural so i'm hoping it will give a nice "boost" as far as gaining muscle goes...

Did you end up trying the arachidonic acid? How did you like it?

 

[11111]

Did you end up trying the arachidonic acid? How did you like it?

actually just started it a couple days ago, so will report back in a month or so once I've been on it awhile..

 

[warlock]

actually just started it a couple days ago, so will report back in a month or so once I've been on it awhile..

That'd be great if you could report back. Thanks.

 

[tregar]

Hi 11111 and warlock! Great to see you again! My experience with arachidonic acid is here in post #1 (after using it for 6 months):

3 year bloodwork study MK677

I was asked recently: "What's the latest with your MK-677? Any recent labs? Curious if you have taken any labs while in your 'off' period for MK, in order to get a fresh baseline?" I have not posted since around mid last year, I have been gone a while, but have returned to post new bloods...

www.professionalmuscle.com

 

[tregar]

Arachidonic acid is my favorite supplement right behind mk677 and HMB. I agree with the statement below, and only use it right before a workout,
as that is the time when it is distributed to muscle tissue the best. In fact, I recommend waiting until the moment you drive up to the gym, then take it in your
car with a bit of coffee, it then works wonders while you are in the gym. Taking it on a full stomach is a waste, just like the article below explains.
After using it for 6 months pre-workout only, I am the strongest I have ever been in my life, lifing weights far beyond what I've ever done before, and lean
mass accrual is phenomenal. Just the other day the cafeteria ladies at work freaked out when I walked in with just a short sleeve shirt for the 1st time and they both commented on the size of my arms. They looked in shock and the next time I went to cafeteria they were asking me how many times I workout, etc. Aracdhidonic acid stacks well with mk677, 2g HMB, 1.25g betaine, 5g bcaa's & 6 capsules of arginine/ornithine from NOW sports (enhanced GH release) pre-workout. HMB and bcaa's prevent the breakdown of muscle tissue while you work out.

Arachidonic acid help guide:

The Arachidonic Acid Help Guide

Q1: What is Arachidonic Acid and how does it work? Arachidonic acid, or Ara for short, is an Omega 6 fatty acid found in the phospholipids of a body’s cells (Human + Animal). Arachidonic Acid allows for the production of eicosanoids which are signalling molecules that exert control over...

forum.priceplow.com

hxxps://forum.priceplow.com/t/the-arachidonic-acid-help-guide/2165
"We now recommend that Ara be taken pre-workout only as this environment will ensure Ara distribution into skeletal muscle tissue."

New Study Shows Omega-6 Fat Arachidonic Acid Builds Muscle:

New Study Shows Omega-6 Fat Arachidonic Acid Builds Muscle

/PRNewswire/ -- Molecular Nutrition (MN) announced today clinical study results for their X-Factor™ arachidonic acid (ARA) supplement. Under controlled...

www.prnewswire.com

hxxps://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-study-shows-omega-6-fat-arachidonic-acid-builds-muscle-266756951.html

"Thirty college-aged men were recruited for the study, and randomized into two groups. The men in the first group were given 1,500 mg of ARA daily, and the other an identical-looking placebo. All men followed a periodized resistance-training program for 8 weeks. At the end of the study, the group supplementing ARA reported significantly greater gains in lean body mass (3.6 lbs. vs. 0.2 lbs.). They also noticed an 88% greater increase in muscle thickness (.47 cm vs. .25 cm), and added significantly more strength to bench press and leg press (110 lbs. vs. 76 lbs.). Lastly, wingate peak anaerobic power was dramatically improved with ARA (78W vs. 28W), a 275% greater increase."

There are several pages written about it in the 2005 anabolics reference guide by Llewellyn with case study reports, lean mass added per month compared to placebo is outstanding.

The many benefits of HMB, particularly with it supplying a source of HBG-CoA for cholesterol synthesis within muscle cells:

HMB: Overrated, Overpriced, Or Overlooked? (Part 1)

There is one supplement that pops up in discussions every so often. Today that supplement happens to be HMB. In this article we will examine the current research and science behind HMB to see whether my progress was affected by HMB.

www.bodybuilding.com

hxxps://www.bodybuilding.com/content/hmb-overrated-overpriced-or-overlooked-part1.html

"Current data supports the hypothesis that supplementing with HMB supplies a source of HMG-CoA for cholesterol synthesis for immune system cells, mammary glands, and muscle cells2.

This is important because the peripheral tissues (i.e. skeletal muscle) uptake little if any cholesterol from the blood2, 11. Supplementing with HMB could supply muscle cells the needed cholesterol for increased membrane and organelle synthesis (construction) and differentiation (change towards a more specialized form or function). What this means for the athlete is an increase muscle size and function.


An interesting note is that cholesterol synthesis inhibitors have been shown to cause severe muscle toxicity, since muscles rely on de novo synthesis of cholesterol5. This toxicity ranged from muscle damage9 to muscle cell death10. It is quite obvious the cholesterol is vital for muscle cell survival let alone hypertrophy or preservation."

 

[totalrecomp]

All arachidonic acid products that are capsules are the 10% powder. The softgels are 40%. X-gels and Xfactor cost a bit more per bottle but when you factor this % difference in the 40% softgels are a much better value. The companies that make the dry powder capsules very rarely label these correctly to reflect this MAJOR difference. If you reach out to Bill W. they will confirm this. A 40% powder does not exist only a 40% oil.

 

[warlock]

Thanks tregar for all that info. Question is how many grams of fish oil/krill oil should pone consume when using arachidonic acid to keep a good ratio? Any specific amount of EPA/DHA one should aim for?

 

[tregar]

warlock said

"Thanks tregar for all that info. Question is how many grams of fish oil/krill oil should pone consume when using arachidonic acid to keep a good ratio? Any specific amount of EPA/DHA one should aim for? "

When I get to the gym, I break open the 4 x 350mg arach capsules and swallow just the powder from them with some hot coffee so that it acts very fast once you get inside the gym, you don't won't to take it with food for breakfast as it will not be near as effective. This will ensure distribution into muscle tissue while you work out, which is where you want it. You will feel the amazing pump and soreness kick in once you are doing your workout. Don't feel bad taking supplements, 7 time Mr. Olympia Phil Heath said in interview he takes a jar of supplements with his food everyday!

I dose fish oil 12 hours away from Ara on the same day, or I will skip it on the workout day and take it the following morning (5 caps of fish oil). Nature's bounty 1200mg fish oil at walgreens is great. Each cap has 360mg of omega-3 and supplies 1.8g total, the many studies at ergo log on fish oil also show it helps build muscle compared to placebo (those who took nothing). Here is 1 study below for example:

Six weeks of fish oil: lose a pound of fat and gain a pound of lean body mass: https://www.ergo-log.com/sixweeksfishoil.html

The figure below shows that nothing happened in the SO group. But the FO group gained half a kilogram of lean body mass [so also muscle] and lost about the same amount of fat mass.

allornothing said:
"I love MK677. I get blood work done 2-3 times a year and I have never seen a decrease in my insulin sensitivity. I also follow a keto to low carb diet most of the year. The pumps I get on MK are awesome. The only downside for me is the hunger pains when dieting. They seem to subside some after a few weeks but never completely go away for me. Tregar do you take any Pepsin with your Betaine?" Thanks for your insight allornothing. I don't take any pepsin with the Betaine.

Same here...
7 months in while taking it, I had labs done, mk677 had no detrimental effects on my insulin, glucose, A1c, etc.

Labs from Sept 26, 2018:

Insulin 8.2 uU/ml , normal, low =2.6, high = 24.9
Glucose: 89.0 mg/dl, normal, low = 70, high = 99
HbA1c: 5.1%, normal, low = 4.0, high = 5.6

I had a full panel bloodwork done again in December, and the Doctor was please, my insulin, glucose, and Hba1c were again normal, this after using mk677 for 7 months of the year for 2 years so far.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Deadlifter99 wrote the following:

"Personally I feel like MK puts my GH levels around the same as what 3iu per day of Humatrope does. I've used low doses of GH for a year+ at a time."

Good feedback deadlifter99. I found similar, that the 25mg of mk677 is equivalent to 3.4iu of pharm grade Chinese GH used to treat Dwarfism in the hospitals.

Year 2018 = 322 ng/ml igf-1 (level at 6 months on 25mg mk677 in morning) is equivalent of 3.4 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me. Used the mk677 from end of april till November 2 of last year.

Year 2019 = 327 ng/ml igf-1 (after 1 month on 25mg mk677 in the am) is equivalent to 3.4 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me. Used the mk677 from March thru October 13th of last year (2019).

Personally, I only use mk677 1/2 of the year now (6 months total) and take the other 1/2 of the year off, as I have noticed that for the first 6 months, the igf-1 levels remain +100 points over baseline, then at the 7th month they drop to only around +95 points, then only +75 points by the 8th month, same thing was observed in the participants in the mk677 study (levels begin to decline from the peak right after 6 months).
----------------------------------------------------------
I am off this morning to take my 3rd year baseline igf-1 before I begin mk677 again tomorrow morning, so soon from now I will post new 3 year baseline and new mk677 igf-1 levels after 4 weeks on it again, then take another reading at 6 months.

 

[tregar]

totalrecomp said:
"All arachidonic acid products that are capsules are the 10% powder. The softgels are 40%. X-gels and Xfactor cost a bit more per bottle but when you factor this % difference in the 40% softgels are a much better value. The companies that make the dry powder capsules very rarely label these correctly to reflect this MAJOR difference. If you reach out to Bill W. they will confirm this. A 40% powder does not exist only a 40% oil."

Thanks totalrecomp! I will buy the x-gels from now on, I see they go for $38 at 100 OIL caps, enhanced athlete is $34 at 120 powder caps. I will definately switch over, and buy soon, thanks again! x-gels it will be from now on. I will be cutting the x-gel with my teeth and swallowing the oil right out, as I don't like to wait for oil capsules to dissolve in stomach.

 

[tregar]

One of the changes I made two months ago was to drop the fasting after 3pm as I discovered I was plateauing in strength in the gym. Simply by adding in a meal of 120 grams of tureky (30g protein) and 1 metrx pure protein scoop in ice water (22g) total = 50g of added protein at last meal, this made all the difference in the world. After boosting my protein to 200g per day (1g per lb of bodyweight) I have seen constant strength increases week to week in the gym. Even with the added protein meal at 6pm, I can still loose up to 1/2 lb a day by just running 15 to 20 minutes x 3 times a week on non-workout days while following the keto diet. The only time I will take some complex carbs is when I add two tablespoons of crunchy peanut butter 1 hour preworkout with my 7eggs, keep 3 yolks, sometimes with sausage. This gives me great energy and strength in the gym, but this only happens if I get the 200g + of protein daily as well. Going up to 1.3g per lb of bodyweight is what I will get to one day. This could be done by adding a whey shake to a meal or two like Big A used to do. This would be similar to the study below where bodybuilders gained 7.2lbs of lean mass in 40 days with 2.8g per kg, (that's about 1.3g protein per lb of weight).

I also take 3 scoops daily of pure protein met-rx ($15 or so online) with ice water at my 2:30pm break with around 20 nuts (almonds and pecans). This gives me 66g of protein from the shake alone. I always add 1 to 2 tablespoons no carb heavy whipping cream to the shake for a wonderful milk shake flavor and consistency.

The importance of high protein: https://www.bodybuilding.com/content/how-much-protein.html

"Another study conducted at the Letterman Army Institute of Research in San Francisco showed that subjects on a higher protein intake (2.8 g/kg/day), coupled with intense strength training, gained a whopping 3.28 kg (7.2 lbs) of lean mass. The study was done over a 40-day period and the subjects were trained to near exhaustion (2). Another study of weightlifters over a 3 month period, with the protein increased from 2.2g/kg/day to 3.5 g/kg/ day, resulted in a 6% increase in muscle mass and a 5% increase in strength (3)."

On the way back from the gym, I pass by a Chipotle, where I always get 2 scoops of chicken in a bowl with a side of guacamole/avacado which I add to the chicken--this only costs $7 and not the normal $12. Just tell them to charge you for 2 sides of chicken--if you get nothing else on it---it is cheap and they won't charge you the full bowl price of $10 or more for 2 sides of chicken + all the added stuff. So remember, just get 2 sides of chicken for dirt cheap and add an avacado -- total is only $7 and it is very healthy keto -- and the avacado gives you all the healthy fats you need for lunch. The 2 sides of chicken gives you 60g of protein! You can look it up on-line.

I just had my 1st 25mg dose of mk677 this morning after coming back to take my baseline igf-1 at the lab core, which was crowded today, as I had 10 people in front of me, usually there is only 1 to 3 people in there, but it was crowded today. Will report back in 1 week with year 2020 baseline, a 4 week reading, and a reading at 6 months of igf-1. The mk677 has been keeping me at the high level for a gifted 18 year old each year when I use it.

 

[totalrecomp]

totalrecomp said:
"All arachidonic acid products that are capsules are the 10% powder. The softgels are 40%. X-gels and Xfactor cost a bit more per bottle but when you factor this % difference in the 40% softgels are a much better value. The companies that make the dry powder capsules very rarely label these correctly to reflect this MAJOR difference. If you reach out to Bill W. they will confirm this. A 40% powder does not exist only a 40% oil."

Thanks totalrecomp! I will buy the x-gels from now on, I see they go for $38 at 100 OIL caps, enhanced athlete is $34 at 120 powder caps. I will definately switch over, and buy soon, thanks again! x-gels it will be from now on. I will be cutting the x-gel with my teeth and swallowing the oil right out, as I don't like to wait for oil capsules to dissolve in stomach.

Save your empties and your invoice/receipts as SNS has a free bee program. Once you get so many points you get free bottles. Google the following for the details: SNS RELOAD!!!

 

[tregar]

3rd year 2020 update:

So it appears using 25mg mk677 for 6 to 8 months over the past 3 years has had no detrimental effects on my normal baseline igf-1 reading. My baseline reading from year 2018 was 227 ng/dl, and this year 2020 it is 229 ng/dl at baseline. This is very good news!

Deadlifter99 said elsewhere:

"Personally I feel like MK puts my GH levels around the same as what 3iu per day of Humatrope does. I've used low doses of GH for a year+ at a time."

Good feedback deadlifter99. I found similar, that 25mg of mk677 is equivalent to 3.4iu of pharm grade Chinese GH used to treat Dwarfism in the hospitals.

Year 2018 = 322 ng/ml igf-1 (level at 6 months on 25mg mk677 in morning) is equivalent of 3.4 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me.

Year 2019 = 327 ng/ml igf-1 (after 1 month on 25mg mk677 in the am) is equivalent to 3.4 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me.

Year 2020 = upcoming bloodwork in 4 weeks (began 25mg mk677 on 2/4/2020 and will use for 7 months total this year till end of August 2020). Will also take bloodwork after being on mk677 for 6 months this year.

Below is brand new baseline igf-1 reading taken on 2/3/2020 for year 2020:

 

[yohim]

3rd year 2020 update:

So it appears using 25mg mk677 for 6 to 8 months over the past 3 years has had no detrimental effects on my normal baseline igf-1 reading. My baseline reading from year 2018 was 227 ng/dl, and this year 2020 it is 229 ng/dl at baseline. This is very good news!

Deadlifter99 said elsewhere:

"Personally I feel like MK puts my GH levels around the same as what 3iu per day of Humatrope does. I've used low doses of GH for a year+ at a time."

Good feedback deadlifter99. I found similar, that 25mg of mk677 is equivalent to 3.4iu of pharm grade Chinese GH used to treat Dwarfism in the hospitals.

Year 2018 = 322 ng/ml igf-1 (level at 6 months on 25mg mk677 in morning) is equivalent of 3.4 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me.

Year 2019 = 327 ng/ml igf-1 (after 1 month on 25mg mk677 in the am) is equivalent to 3.4 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me.

Year 2020 = upcoming bloodwork in 4 weeks (began 25mg mk677 on 2/4/2020 and will use for 7 months total this year till end of August 2020). Will also take bloodwork after being on mk677 for 6 months this year.

Below is brand new baseline igf-1 reading taken on 2/3/2020 for year 2020:

View attachment 113679

Do you take your MK on empty stomach ?

 

[NGL34]

I didn't bother reading any other post beyond the 1st post by I know everyone has there own opinions and experiences and that's perfectly ok.

However through my own experiences trying mk 677 at various doses, times and amounts all I can say is each time I gain a tremendous amount of water retention that could not even be curtail with carb reduce, calorie reduction, increase cardio to sweat it out. The film of water underneath my skin made me feels so fat and dirty.

The lethargy of this product also very noticeable. Again it didn't matter how much sleep I had the night before, adjusting dosing times didn't seems to really make a difference either I was alway tired. Getting through workouts was a real chore. Infoujd myself constantly sneaking in naps when I could.

I'm not sure if anyone would say this is good or bad but the first week the hunger was out of this world but that was only side effect which did taper rather quickly.

I ended up throwing away 2 and half bottles after all my trials with it and having the same side effects. The best way to describe how mk 677 made me feel is it like going to your local buffet, pigging out and coming home shortly feeling bloated, tired and gross afterwards. That's how it felt 24/7 for me while on it. Never again.