T3 experiences Bulking or Cutting

[thedorkyd1]

Hey guys just wondering what your sort of experiences have been with the use of t3 both during gaining phases and cutting phases. Would be good if you could include things such as:

- Your goal at the time (bulking/cutting)
- How much you used
- Did you feel flat or depleted/losses in strength

As far as i understand it is a tool thats useful up to around 50-60mcg to increase protein synthesis before the balance swings in favour of an overall protein degradation. Therefore if you were aiming to gain, going past 60ish mcg would be counter productive.

However in a cutting phase. If you ate enough protein (just say the magic number was 400g of protein for a 250lbs male on 100mcg per day) then theoretically you can maintain complete muscle mass and the additional calorie expenditure would come from fat stores?

Also was curious on anyone's knowledge in regards to the "flatness" everyone speaks of? Does anyone know the exact mechanism or why it occurs? Is it a lack of protein? Calories? Electrolytes? Etc. And at what dosage does this become relevant/noticable

 

[TheRealAphextwin]

I really don’t see the point using it while bulking. You’re trying to grow when not dieting.

 

[thedorkyd1]

I really don’t see the point using it while bulking. You’re trying to grow when not dieting.

I explained my understanding of using it while bulking (albeit not sure how accurate) you fan build muscle faster with a surplus of protein as long as you dont go over a certain threshold dose

 

[livinlean]

I've used 50 in the past on bulks and am doing so now. It makes me hungry as hell so thats my main purpose but I had also read similar stuff to what you laid out (also not sure if its true). For myself I will keep the T3 in until I add EQ at which time I will rely on that for the hunger. I need 4k+ cals to grow but have a tough time getting that in.

I don't feel flat at 50mcg but my strength does seem to stall at least for the first little bit.

On a cut I can go up to 75 before I notice massive lethargy and loss of strength. 100 is the highest i've gone but thats in a panic situation when i'm not lean enough. Don't think i'll ever do that again.

Curious to hear some of the smarter guys talk about T3 in a bulk. James hollingshead mentioned in a podcast a while back that Patrick Tuor likes him on 50 as well.

 

[thedorkyd1]

I've used 50 in the past on bulks and am doing so now. It makes me hungry as hell so thats my main purpose but I had also read similar stuff to what you laid out (also not sure if its true). For myself I will keep the T3 in until I add EQ at which time I will rely on that for the hunger. I need 4k+ cals to grow but have a tough time getting that in.

I don't feel flat at 50mcg but my strength does seem to stall at least for the first little bit.

On a cut I can go up to 75 before I notice massive lethargy and loss of strength. 100 is the highest i've gone but thats in a panic situation when i'm not lean enough. Don't think i'll ever do that again.

Curious to hear some of the smarter guys talk about T3 in a bulk. James hollingshead mentioned in a podcast a while back that Patrick Tuor likes him on 50 as well.

Oh yeah sweet. Do you remember your protein intake at all?

 

[b-boy]

@Type-IIx

 

[Biggerp73]

I've used 50 in the past on bulks and am doing so now. It makes me hungry as hell so thats my main purpose but I had also read similar stuff to what you laid out (also not sure if its true). For myself I will keep the T3 in until I add EQ at which time I will rely on that for the hunger. I need 4k+ cals to grow but have a tough time getting that in.

I don't feel flat at 50mcg but my strength does seem to stall at least for the first little bit.

On a cut I can go up to 75 before I notice massive lethargy and loss of strength. 100 is the highest i've gone but thats in a panic situation when i'm not lean enough. Don't think i'll ever do that again.

Curious to hear some of the smarter guys talk about T3 in a bulk. James hollingshead mentioned in a podcast a while back that Patrick Tuor likes him on 50 as well.

You taking that all in one dose? Empty stomach? In the morning? Waiting an hour before eating?

 

[Delt123]

I vaguely remember Peter Bond stating that there will be more protein breakdown when you (would) use it.

From all the topics I’ve read on this matter, it seems to made bulking even harder. I’d only use it if bloodwork indicates that I need it.

 

[luki7788]

I do not think that a physiologically high level of t3 is beneficial during growth, it must be remembered that too high a level of t3 causes an increase in e.g. cortisol. Personally, I think we should keep the t3 level at the top of the norm on both weight and cut

I know that Dallas was using large amounts of t3 all year round - supposedly 100-150mcg, when he went to Chad's, he dropped his dose at 25mcg and Dallas was scared that so little

 

[jeroendebleser]

I vaguely remember Peter Bond stating that there will be more protein breakdown when you (would) use it.

From all the topics I’ve read on this matter, it seems to made bulking even harder. I’d only use it if bloodwork indicates that I need it.

Yep, tried it and it (the theory about it stimulating protein synthesis) doesn't pan out in real life and neither on paper I learned recently thanks to @Type-IIx

 

[livinlean]

Oh yeah sweet. Do you remember your protein intake at all?

Around the 1.75g/lb range is where I sit. Sometimes it goes up to 2 but not much more than that.

I just added it a week ago after being stuck at the same weight due to not being able to take down any more food. I was able to up my cals and moved up 2lbs after being stuck at the same weight for 4 weeks. Could just be in my head but it does seem to do something to me.

 

[livinlean]

You taking that all in one dose? Empty stomach? In the morning? Waiting an hour before eating?

Yes all one dose in the AM empty stomach. I wake up at 545 and typically don't eat until about 8am.

 

[Type-IIx]

T3 increases protein turnover, yes, yielding increased net protein breakdown. Further, it preferentially catabolizes hypertrophied muscle (reflected by reduction to type IIA fiber cross-sectional area).

From https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...teresting-melatonin-post….171168/post-3088739

... Perhaps what's needed to really get peoples' attention about the perils of thyroid hormones for bodybuilding is focusing on the effects on protein turnover (Peter Bond Article). Most noteworthy, 75 µg of exogenous T3 increases RMR by 15% and 100 µg exogenous T3 for 2 weeks reduced type IIA fiber CSA (this reflects hypertrophied muscle) in line with this increased RMR (though there may be some compensatory mechanism that antagonizes the protein catabolic effects over longer periods, staving off further muscle loss). That, to most, should be a stark message about the utility of thyroid hormones for recomping, not to mind bulking.

 

[jaxino]

Hey guys just wondering what your sort of experiences have been with the use of t3 both during gaining phases and cutting phases. Would be good if you could include things such as:

- Your goal at the time (bulking/cutting)
- How much you used
- Did you feel flat or depleted/losses in strength

As far as i understand it is a tool thats useful up to around 50-60mcg to increase protein synthesis before the balance swings in favour of an overall protein degradation. Therefore if you were aiming to gain, going past 60ish mcg would be counter productive.

However in a cutting phase. If you ate enough protein (just say the magic number was 400g of protein for a 250lbs male on 100mcg per day) then theoretically you can maintain complete muscle mass and the additional calorie expenditure would come from fat stores?

Also was curious on anyone's knowledge in regards to the "flatness" everyone speaks of? Does anyone know the exact mechanism or why it occurs? Is it a lack of protein? Calories? Electrolytes? Etc. And at what dosage does this become relevant/noticable

Some years ago I was on 25mcg T3 100mcg T4 for over a year and growing was almost impossible, felt tired easily, was very flat, bpm was always a tad high but nothing to worry about, but i had that idea that you NEED to do whatever is needed, couldn't be more wrong. FT3 and FT4 levels were in the upper range, i don't remember the numbers.

In the end i dropped T3, my thyroid in a week restarted working (had back the feeling of heat, and also morning temp got back to good levels) and since now i started growing and not looking flat as a pancake.

My advice, do your bloods, then decide how to intervene and even then monitor Heart Rate, flatness, how you recover and so on.
If your thyroid works, a bit of T4 is more than enough to improve. Once you reach 300lbs well maybe you will need T3 all year long but you have time for that...