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T3 synergy with HGH/Slin

and if we use a low dose of t3 so that our ft3 is normal? patrick tuor at offseason often recommends 12.5mcg t3 + 50-100mcg t4. Jordan Petters uses 25mcg t3 + 100mcg t4 all year round. do we deprive ourselves of some of the benefits of hgh through t3?
small doses of t3, i.e. 10-12.5mcg per day, do not block the work of our thyroid gland, so using them for offseason together with t4 makes a lot of sense and affects, for example, better protein synthesis - so it is not a stupid idea
 
small doses of t3, i.e. 10-12.5mcg per day, do not block the work of our thyroid gland, so using them for offseason together with t4 makes a lot of sense and affects, for example, better protein synthesis - so it is not a stupid idea
when best to take t3 and t4? ... t3 when I wake up on an empty stomach and t4 on an empty stomach at night? or? Thank you
 
T3-t4 empty stomach
caffeine 2-3 hours after
no dairy 5 hours after
food 1 hour after < I wait longer
^
This is what I do so they get properly absorbed as the above can make them far less effective if not timed.
T3-t4 combo in my opinion is the better choice for optimal thyroid function and will keep you leaner all year round and as anabolics gh etc have a impact on are thyroid like slight reduced thyroid output not complete shutdown this just keeps things working smoothly not to forget t3 improves insulin sensitivity
 
T4 should be done in fasted state but it will absorb even having breakfast, milk and coffee (You will absorb 20-50% less, thats all).
So if you dont like to wait you can always adjust your dosage with bloods. Some patients take 150mg t4 because they are not fasted when they could really achieve the same medical results with just 75-100 but taking it fasted.

I think t3 dont require any specific condition.

Ill take half dose of t3 AM with your t4 (fasted, at least 30min), and the other half of t3 in PM.

Adjust accordingly with bloods. If i were you ill have 2 bloods. One fasted 12h post last t3 dose, to see your minimun ft3 levels and the other one 2-4h post t3 dose to see the peak ft3 level. You dont want to be above high-normal range in any case (even at peak). Ill look for stable levels.
As you can see here: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1...=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub 0pubmed
Higher and more stable levels are achieved using t3+t4 (splitting t3 dose AM/PM).


figure4.jpeg


FIG. 4.  A PK modeling of 50 mcg of LT3 administered on a thrice (A), twice (B), or single (C) daily regimen was generated. Solid lines: reference range of T3. Dashed line: mean concentration of T3. All the proposed treatment schemes result in mean T3 concentrations near the upper limit of reference range, but with dramatic differences in the variance (see Results for details).

figure5.gif


FIG. 5.  A PK modeling of LT3/LT4 combination therapy with 3.25 (A), 5 (B), and 10 (C) mcg of LT3 administered on a twice-daily regimen was generated. Solid lines: reference range of T3. Dashed line: mean concentration of T3 (see Results for details).
 
when best to take t3 and t4? ... t3 when I wake up on an empty stomach and t4 on an empty stomach at night? or? Thank you
Both are better taken on an empty stomach. T3 without coffee. There was a study done showing decreased absorption of T3 when taken with coffee. I forget the amount but it was not insignificant. Some people have inferred to not take it with caffeine as well. That is possible but was not verified in the study because the only caffeine source used was coffee.

As far as what time of the day, I think both first thing in the morning is the easiest. If you can consistently have an empty stomach at night then I suppose you can take T3 in the morning and T4 at night. Both first thing in the morning is just simpler for me.
 
T4 should be done in fasted state but it will absorb even having breakfast, milk and coffee (You will absorb 20-50% less, thats all).
So if you dont like to wait you can always adjust your dosage with bloods. Some patients take 150mg t4 because they are not fasted when they could really achieve the same medical results with just 75-100 but taking it fasted.

I think t3 dont require any specific condition.

Ill take half dose of t3 AM with your t4 (fasted, at least 30min), and the other half of t3 in PM.

Adjust accordingly with bloods. If i were you ill have 2 bloods. One fasted 12h post last t3 dose, to see your minimun ft3 levels and the other one 2-4h post t3 dose to see the peak ft3 level. You dont want to be above high-normal range in any case (even at peak). Ill look for stable levels.
As you can see here: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/thy.2019.0101?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori:rid:crossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub 0pubmed
Higher and more stable levels are achieved using t3+t4 (splitting t3 dose AM/PM).


figure4.jpeg


FIG. 4.  A PK modeling of 50 mcg of LT3 administered on a thrice (A), twice (B), or single (C) daily regimen was generated. Solid lines: reference range of T3. Dashed line: mean concentration of T3. All the proposed treatment schemes result in mean T3 concentrations near the upper limit of reference range, but with dramatic differences in the variance (see Results for details).

figure5.gif


FIG. 5.  A PK modeling of LT3/LT4 combination therapy with 3.25 (A), 5 (B), and 10 (C) mcg of LT3 administered on a twice-daily regimen was generated. Solid lines: reference range of T3. Dashed line: mean concentration of T3 (see Results for details).
Thnx bro... Split the dose by t3, even if the dose is only 12mcg/ day?
 
Thnx bro... Split the dose by t3, even if the dose is only 12mcg/ day?
You can do whatever you want and see what method give you best values.

In the study they splitted the dose even when it was 6.5mcg/day
 
small doses of t3, i.e. 10-12.5mcg per day, do not block the work of our thyroid gland, so using them for offseason together with t4 makes a lot of sense and affects, for example, better protein synthesis - so it is not a stupid idea
Based on an article by Anthony Roberts, it can be said that we deprive ourselves of the benefits of hgh by using t3? what benefits are you talking about? once bodybuilders made progress on a combination of testosterone + anabolic + hgh + insulin + t3. We rely on the theses of Anthony Roberts, but his theses have also been debunked in other forums. What do you think? Luki do you think you will feel benefits after switching to t4?
 
Based on an article by Anthony Roberts, it can be said that we deprive ourselves of the benefits of hgh by using t3? what benefits are you talking about? once bodybuilders made progress on a combination of testosterone + anabolic + hgh + insulin + t3. We rely on the theses of Anthony Roberts, but his theses have also been debunked in other forums. What do you think? Luki do you think you will feel benefits after switching to t4?
Theres no added benefits.

T3 alone: Not stable levels. So many peaks and avoiding some physiological mechanisms t4 have.
T4 alone: You require high dosages to increase ft3 levels to high end of normal, this will supress your TSH too much. This is why you see people taking +200mcg t4, having tsh completely supressed and normal or low ft3
T3+T4: More stable thyroid levels, higher f3t levels without excesive peaks, t4 available when body need it and TSH not as supressed as with the dosages of t4 you will neef to achieve equivalent f3t levels (some people cant even increase it supressing TSH to 0, poor converters, getenics, syndromes etc...)

Just my opinion. The benefit is an optimized metabolism
 
Theres no added benefits.

T3 alone: Not stable levels. So many peaks and avoiding some physiological mechanisms t4 have.
T4 alone: You require high dosages to increase ft3 levels to high end of normal, this will supress your TSH too much. This is why you see people taking +200mcg t4, having tsh completely supressed and normal or low ft3
T3+T4: More stable thyroid levels, higher f3t levels without excesive peaks, t4 available when body need it and TSH not as supressed as with the dosages of t4 you will neef to achieve equivalent f3t levels (some people cant even increase it supressing TSH to 0, poor converters, getenics, syndromes etc...)

Just my opinion. The benefit is an optimized metabolism
what do you think about a dose of 15mcg t3 + 100-125mcg t4 for a person with poor conversion. a dose of 15 mcg t3 will not block our thyroid gland, while 100 mcg t4 will partially turn into t3 so that the results should be optimal. A dose of 15 mcg should not block our natural thyroid?
 
Based on an article by Anthony Roberts, it can be said that we deprive ourselves of the benefits of hgh by using t3? what benefits are you talking about? once bodybuilders made progress on a combination of testosterone + anabolic + hgh + insulin + t3. We rely on the theses of Anthony Roberts, but his theses have also been debunked in other forums. What do you think? Luki do you think you will feel benefits after switching to t4?

That is article by Roberts oversimplifies things. Not everyone converts T4 the same, and you really don't know until you get labs done over a period of time. I am hypothyroid and T4 by itself makes things worse (and I've done tons of labs with and without the added). I have to take T3 to get optimal blood work.
 
Why is it being said that smaller doses of T3 does not affect output. I was under the impression that any/all exogenous hormones affect endogenous output.
 
Why is it being said that smaller doses of T3 does not affect output. I was under the impression that any/all exogenous hormones affect endogenous output.
This I’m pretty sure even 12.5mcg which is a complete waste of time shuts down thyroid output and tsh will be low anyone had blood work on a 12.5mcg dose at full replacement 25mcg your tsh is low.
 
This I’m pretty sure even 12.5mcg which is a complete waste of time shuts down thyroid output and tsh will be low anyone had blood work on a 12.5mcg dose at full replacement 25mcg your tsh is low.
you are wrong, a dose of 20mcg and gore usually causes a tsh below the lower limit

10-12.5mcg doesn't do that. my own blood tests confirm it
 
you are wrong, a dose of 20mcg and gore usually causes a tsh below the lower limit

10-12.5mcg doesn't do that. my own blood tests confirm it
I don’t know this is good you’ve got bloods on it but why would you go so low and not just replace this with 25mcg or 50mcg t3 burning muscle is overrated imo strength loss can occur but we aren’t strength athletes and if food high this shouldn’t happen it’s only ever seen when calories are low during a dieting phase
 
I don’t know this is good you’ve got bloods on it but why would you go so low and not just replace this with 25mcg or 50mcg t3 burning muscle is overrated imo strength loss can occur but we aren’t strength athletes and if food high this shouldn’t happen it’s only ever seen when calories are low during a dieting phase
Friend, the excess t3 is very bad and has many negative consequences, not only burning muscles. One of the effects of too much t3 is that insulin sensitivity deteriorates, which is our worst case scenario
 
Friend, the excess t3 is very bad and has many negative consequences, not only burning muscles. One of the effects of too much t3 is that insulin sensitivity deteriorates, which is our worst case scenario
It improves insulin sensitivity I don’t believe it eats muscle is much is people think if foods high

T3 potentiated insulin signaling, improved insulin sensitivity, and increased insulinsynthesis, which may contribute to its anti-diabetic effects. These findings may provide new approaches to the treatment of type 2 diabetes.
 
Single injections of T3 (7 ng·g−1 i.p.) rapidly and markedly attenuated hyperglycemia. Treatment with T3 (14 ng·g−1·day−1, 18 days) dose-dependently attenuated blood glucose and increased insulin sensitivity in db/db mice. Higher doses of T3 (28 ng·g−1·day−1) reversed insulin resistance in db/db mice. T3 also increased insulin levels in plasma and the neurogenic differentiation factor (an insulin synthesis transcription factor) and insulin storage in pancreatic islets in db/db mice. These anti-diabetic effects of T3 were abolished by the PI3-kinase inhibitor (LY294002). In 3T3-L1 preadipocytes, T3 enhanced insulin-induced tyrosine phosphorylation of insulin receptor substrate (IRS)-1 and activation of PI3-kinase, effects blocked by siRNA for TRα1.

CONCLUSIONS AND IMPLICATIONS​

T3 potentiated insulin signaling, improved insulin sensitivity, and increased insulin synthesis, which may contribute to its anti-diabetic effects. These findings may provide new approaches to the treatment of type 2 diabetes.

Link https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3041250/
 

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