T3/t4 a must on High dose hgh?

F0cus · Jan 27, 2013

Ok so I've done a lot of reading and I've seen people go both ways on this. Some saying its a must and some that its not neccasary. I'm running 10iu Ed... Would love to hear from some vets!

mg1228 · Jan 27, 2013

im not a vet but....i was researching 4iu for 3mo and my t4 went to the bottom of the lab range

supp atleast t4...and do bloodwork....thats really how you know

jm425 · Jan 27, 2013

You only need a low dose of t3. You just want to get your t3 levels back to normal and it doesn't take much. Take too much t3 and it's very catabolic.

J.Lizzle · Jan 27, 2013

I thought it was T4 you needed when running hgh or peptides?

F0cus · Jan 27, 2013

jm425 said:
You only need a low dose of t3. You just want to get your t3 levels back to normal and it doesn't take much. Take too much t3 and it's very catabolic.

How much do you use? And do you run it the whole time your on gh? I'm planing on running a year.

Google&Pubmed · Jan 27, 2013

GH up regulates your T4 to T3 conversion but down regulates your T4. They are not only bunch of studies about it on pubmed but they are also bunch of blood works on here that have showed users having high T3 while on synthetic GH.

I would say 50mcg of T4/day and call it a day.

jm425 · Jan 27, 2013

Google&Pubmed said:
GH up regulates your T4 to T3 conversion but down regulates your T4. They are not only bunch of studies about it on pubmed but they are also bunch of blood works on here that have showed users having high T3 while on synthetic GH.

I would say 50mcg of T4/day and call it a day.

Thanks for the clarification. My fiancee used to take 50mcgs of t4 before they took her thyroid out recently which put her in the normal range and she is not on anything. I would have to agree with you that 50mcgs should be the sweet spot.

jm425 · Jan 27, 2013

F0cus said:
How much do you use? And do you run it the whole time your on gh? I'm planing on running a year.

I don't take any t3/t4 because I don't mega dose gh anymore.

mg1228 · Jan 27, 2013

again.... atleast supp t4....get BW done...before u start t4...then every 6 weeks or so...to make sure your in the optimal ranges

after 3 mo with gh....my ft3 was mid range and ft4 was at the very bottom

Kaladryn · Jan 27, 2013

Google&Pubmed said:
GH up regulates your T4 to T3 conversion but down regulates your T4. They are not only bunch of studies about it on pubmed but they are also bunch of blood works on here that have showed users having high T3 while on synthetic GH.

I would say 50mcg of T4/day and call it a day.

GH up to 8iu has zero effect on some people with regards to thyroid. 50mcg of T4 is going to give you LOW thyroid VERY quickly. Once you start to use any thyroid at all, you will very quickly require a full replacement dose.

Kaladryn · Jan 27, 2013

mg1228 said:
after 3 mo with gh....my ft3 was mid range and ft4 was at the very bottom

Why would T4 being low matter if T3 is normal? T4 is completely inactive until it is converted to T3.

mg1228 · Jan 27, 2013

Kaladryn said:
Why would T4 being low matter if T3 is normal? T4 is completely inactive until it is converted to T3.

cause if u aint got t4...eventually u aint gonna have enough t3

supposedly gh causes a more rapid convserion of t4 to t3...hence the need to supp t4....again one should always do labs...so as not to be guessing

t4 doesnt just convert to t3...also converts to t1 t2 and rt3

Kaladryn · Jan 27, 2013

mg1228 said:
cause if u aint got t4...eventually u aint gonna have enough t3

This isn't accurate. No one is talking about having zero t4. You can have low t4 and normal t3 because you convert it well and you would be completely normal. You are only going to make enough TSH to make enough t4 to keep t3 normal. So if you are converting more t4 to t3, you are going to make less TSH and have less t4.

Elevated TSH is a sign that your thyroid is failing, not low t4.

mg1228 said:
t4 doesnt just convert to t3...also converts to t1 t2 and rt3

what does this have to do with anything? another reason to use desiccated thyroid though.

mg1228 · Jan 27, 2013

Kaladryn said:
This isn't accurate. No one is talking about having zero t4. You can have low t4 and normal t3 because you convert it well and you would be completely normal. You are only going to make enough TSH to make enough t4 to keep t3 normal. So if you are converting more t4 to t3, you are going to make less TSH and have less t4.

Elevated TSH is a sign that your thyroid is failing, not low t4.

what does this have to do with anything? another reason to use desiccated thyroid though.

it means that u gotta have enough t4 to convert to all 3...not just t3

and if your t4 levels cant keep up...u can run into problems

my tsh rose since starting the gh...t4 fell and t3 fell

thyroid is very individual, obviously.....thats why in my 1st post, i recommended the op have bloodwork done...there no set protocol for thyroid replacement...thyroid patients are constantly adjusting dosages...and even timing of dosages

and im not saying gh will cause your thyroid to fail...but its pretty common to drop ft4 levels...and t4 converts to all active forms of thyroid

F0cus · Jan 27, 2013

Would love to get bloodwork done but I gotta drive 1 fucking hour to another state cause my gay ass state won't let you get work unless directed by a doc!

Adonis89 · Jan 27, 2013

Kaladryn said:
This isn't accurate. No one is talking about having zero t4. You can have low t4 and normal t3 because you convert it well and you would be completely normal. You are only going to make enough TSH to make enough t4 to keep t3 normal. So if you are converting more t4 to t3, you are going to make less TSH and have less t4.

Elevated TSH is a sign that your thyroid is failing, not low t4.

what does this have to do with anything? another reason to use desiccated thyroid though.

I agree.

Here's the way I approach this:

Start GH
+2 weeks, do thyroid labs
IF low T4, high TSH and high T3 (good sign GH is real and working), start T4 supplementation at 200mcg
+1 week, do thyroid labs
IF TSH is down, T3 is ideal and T4 is ideal, continue dosing
IF levels aren't idea, adjust dosing
+1 week, do labs again to check

Adonis89 · Jan 27, 2013

mg1228 said:
it means that u gotta have enough t4 to convert to all 3...not just t3

and if your t4 levels cant keep up...u can run into problems

my tsh rose since starting the gh...t4 fell and t3 fell

thyroid is very individual, obviously.....thats why in my 1st post, i recommended the op have bloodwork done...there no set protocol for thyroid replacement...thyroid patients are constantly adjusting dosages...and even timing of dosages

and im not saying gh will cause your thyroid to fail...but its pretty common to drop ft4 levels...and t4 converts to all active forms of thyroid

T4 will drop IF you're conversion to T3 is too fast for the thyroid to keep up in replenishing T4 (this is what GH instigates). If T4 gets too depleted, then T3 will start to decline.

Typically, I've seen T3 go up for a little while, then start to decline more and more as one stays on GH. This puts a strain on the thyroid (TSH levels will be high, and this is not good for the thyroid).