T3 with Test

[KingOfSushi]

Sure brother personally I’ve not found it very complicated and I did not invent the wheel I’ve just collected intel from much more experienced older brothers who paved the way before me

I love 50 mcg t3 empty stomach before coffee with the anti-catabolic Clen, only 40 mcg which is pretty tolerable by most

Most guys are running at least 250 mg of test a week and that does the trick

Sit back and watch your abs come in by the day …….

You didn’t answer my question dude

 

[Plusmetic]

My perspective is that if your clients were losing LBM on AAS and GH etc on 25-50mcg t3 that’s a coaching issue on your end bro. Just being real.

Ah, the classic ‘must be a coaching issue’ line — love how quick some guys are to diagnose without context.

Here’s a little reality check: when you’re pushing aggressive deficits, cardio, and 25-50mcg of T3, even with AAS and GH in play, LBM fluctuations can and do happen. That’s not mismanagement — that’s biology.

If all it took was ‘more drugs = no muscle loss,’ every prep coach would be a genius and every client would come in peeled and full. Spoiler alert: they don’t.

But hey — I get it. It’s easier to throw shade than to acknowledge nuance. When you’re ready to move past Instagram science and talk real-world prep data, I’ll be around. Until then, stay salty.”**

 

[Plusmetic]

On the carb intake, have you found certain diets to work better with exogenous thyroid for fat loss specifically...or...muscle retention? High carb low fat vs keto style?

Appreciate the back-and-forth. Let’s keep this thread a go-to for advanced prep nuances – especially around T3, diet styles, and LBM retention. I’ll dig up and share a couple of studies I mentioned.

Also, I’ve been testing cyclical keto vs. high-carb strategies with GH + T3 protocols — would love to compare notes if you’ve done similar

 

[Plusmetic]

With your own personal clients you’ve prescribed them these doses and seen LBM loss?

Yes. Multiple times — and not just recreational lifters, but high-level competitors with years of enhanced experience.

LBM loss on 25-50 mcg T3 isn’t a myth. Combine it with aggressive deficits, stimulants, high-output cardio, and stress load from prep, and it absolutely happens — even with AAS and GH.

The key isn’t pretending it doesn’t happen. It’s knowing how to adjust the protocol before it becomes a problem.

But hey — if your clients are magically immune to catabolism, I’m all ears. Enlighten me.

 

[bbxtreme]

Appreciate the back-and-forth. Let’s keep this thread a go-to for advanced prep nuances – especially around T3, diet styles, and LBM retention. I’ll dig up and share a couple of studies I mentioned.

Also, I’ve been testing cyclical keto vs. high-carb strategies with GH + T3 protocols — would love to compare notes if you’ve done similar

Just some friendly advice- you’re going to have to post up some real study links and/or pics of your clients or yourself for credibility if you want guys to take you serious here.

 

[Plusmetic]

Just some friendly advice- you’re going to have to post up some real study links and/or pics of your clients or yourself for credibility if you want guys to take you serious here.

I hear you — and fair point. I’ll upload both case visuals and protocol breakdowns soon, no issue there.

That said, credibility doesn’t just come from before/after pics. It comes from consistent results, actual protocol refinement, and the ability to discuss without ego.

I’m not here to posture — I’m here to contribute. But sure, receipts are coming.

 

[bbxtreme]

I hear you — and fair point. I’ll upload both case visuals and protocol breakdowns soon, no issue there.

That said, credibility doesn’t just come from before/after pics. It comes from consistent results, actual protocol refinement, and the ability to discuss without ego.

I’m not here to posture — I’m here to contribute. But sure, receipts are coming.

I agree and this place does need new intelligent members who actively post so I hope you’re right.

 

[KingOfSushi]

Ah, the classic ‘must be a coaching issue’ line — love how quick some guys are to diagnose without context.

What do you want me to say? I’ve quite literally never seen nor heard of LBM in an enhanced bodybuilder from 25mcg t3 alone. That practically replacing natural function for most.

Here’s a little reality check: when you’re pushing aggressive deficits, cardio, and 25-50mcg of T3, even with AAS and GH in play, LBM fluctuations can and do happen. That’s not mismanagement — that’s biology.

Yes, from dieting too aggressive and pushing the deficit too far. If you didn’t consider the t3 might create a steeper deficit… that again comes down to your coaching.

If all it took was ‘more drugs = no muscle loss,’ every prep coach would be a genius and every client would come in peeled and full. Spoiler alert: they don’t.

Idk where this strawman is coming from. Never said that.

But hey — I get it. It’s easier to throw shade than to acknowledge nuance. When you’re ready to move past Instagram science and talk real-world prep data, I’ll be around. Until then, stay salty.”**

I didn’t throw shade. And idk what makes you think I’m salty. I have nothing against you and some of the members here I admire I even disagree on things with. All I said is from my perspective and experience, if your clients saw notable LBM loss in a deficit… it was VERY likely not imo not the 25mcg t3 and likely because the deficit was pushed too aggressively from a coaching perspective (whether through diet, cardio, OR pharma).

Have I disrespected you in any way, or been anything but fairly civil with my wording?

 

[qbkilla]

I think it'd be helpful to post more information on people you know who lost muscle. What bodyweight, total calories, deficit.. other drugs

 

[Stewie]

You’re right, listing studies without linking isn’t ideal. I’ll drop the sources below for full transparency.

And honestly, I respect that you’re engaging instead of blindly agreeing – forums need more of that. I’ve worked with a lot of prep athletes where T3 timing and carb intake made all the difference, but I’m always open to adjusting my view.

Let’s connect sometime. I think we’re in similar lanes and could exchange some solid insight – or maybe more.

I'll further the original question. If you want to cited the aforementioned or not that's fine.

Out of curiosity. How did you undergo accessing your clients actual loss in LBM with the additional use of liothyronine? Was it through urinary analysis, caliper, DEXA, BIA, CT or MRI. Or by visualization and scale weight?

If none of the standardized methods to determine fat percentage was utilized. How would we/you know if "said client(s)" may still had minimal amounts of intramuscular fat that could appear as lean muscle tissue visually. There's methods to determine this. Very lean individuals with low body fat can have intramuscular fat. To the naked eye, this can be deceiving.

If, a wild if that would be the case of hiden intramuscular fat with the reduction of BW and visually- caliperd smaller muscle bellies. How would one know if it was actually lipolysis, proteolytic or a combination of both.

The queries remains; was liothyronine to blame on reving-up UPS-proteolysis or facilitating that extra lipolysis.

 

[KingOfSushi]

I'll further the original question. If you want to cited the aforementioned or not that's fine.

Out of curiosity. How did you undergo accessing your clients actual loss in LBM with the additional use of liothyronine? Was it through urinary analysis, caliper, DEXA, BIA, CT or MRI. Or by visualization and scale weight?

If none of the standardized methods to determine fat percentage was utilized. How would we/you know if "said client(s)" may still had minimal amounts of intramuscular fat that could appear as lean muscle tissue visually. There's methods to determine this. Very lean individuals with low body fat can have intramuscular fat. To the naked eye, this can be deceiving.

If, a wild if that would be the case of hiden intramuscular fat with the reduction of BW and visually- caliperd smaller muscle bellies. How would one know if it was actually lipolysis, proteolytic or a combination of both.

The queries remains; was liothyronine to blame on reving-up UPS-proteolysis or facilitating that extra lipolysis.

Very well put. I will say that honestly in most enhanced athletes muscle loss in general in a deficit (if properly executed) is usually vastly overstated as a whole.

And if we are going to speak in anecdotes in the real world, Justin Harris (who has coached plenty of top athletes) talked about this very topic in a decent podcast and had some very interesting things to say regarding how unlikely it is to be losing actual LBM vs just being so flat and driven into the ground… it can be very deceiving. It also makes sense given how often we hear of the best gains being after overly dieting to debatably too far (alongside other factors of course).

I’ll try to find the link

 

[KingOfSushi]

Found it

Skip to 1:11:37. I can speak to scientific validity to all he says, but given how many pros he’s made I think it speaks volumes.

 

[tornquad201]

Don’t buy in to the fake posts about it being “catabolic”

Especially if you are poppin’ 40 mcg of Clen a day which is ANTI CATABOLIC

AND GUESS WHAT?

are you using AAS ? Testosterone? They are anti-catabolic

Well now then you don’t need to worry about the “catabolic” effects of t3 lol

Pro BB’ers go up to 200 mcg t3 daily are they small???? Um NO. lol

Wanna get shredded?

Test
An oral
40 mcg Clen
50 mcg t3

Train hard eat clean high protein and BAM you are ready to win the overall at a state level local show if you’ve built enough muscle

Mack

What would be the minimum amount of Test to use that T3 wouldn’t be catabolic

 

[RSMainz]

I hear you — and fair point. I’ll upload both case visuals and protocol breakdowns soon, no issue there.

That said, credibility doesn’t just come from before/after pics. It comes from consistent results, actual protocol refinement, and the ability to discuss without ego.

I’m not here to posture — I’m here to contribute. But sure, receipts are coming.

its been over a week and im actually really interested to see some data on this

 

[KingOfSushi]

its been over a week and im actually really interested to see some data on this

I wouldn’t hold your breath

 

[FakeName123]

Don’t buy in to the fake posts about it being “catabolic”

Especially if you are poppin’ 40 mcg of Clen a day which is ANTI CATABOLIC

AND GUESS WHAT?

are you using AAS ? Testosterone? They are anti-catabolic

Well now then you don’t need to worry about the “catabolic” effects of t3 lol

Pro BB’ers go up to 200 mcg t3 daily are they small???? Um NO. lol

Wanna get shredded?

Test
An oral
40 mcg Clen
50 mcg t3

Train hard eat clean high protein and BAM you are ready to win the overall at a state level local show if you’ve built enough muscle

Mack

I'm curious when people say stuff like this. Are you using UGL t3 or buying it pharma? Not ugl that calls itself pharma grade, I mean from an indian/turkish/whatever pharmacy?

Just asking because of my own terrible responses to even small doses of t3/t4

 

[MackCoach]

I'm curious when people say stuff like this. Are you using UGL t3 or buying it pharma? Not ugl that calls itself pharma grade, I mean from an indian/turkish/whatever pharmacy?

Just asking because of my own terrible responses to even small doses of t3/t4

Pharma foil pack blisters

 

[FakeName123]

Pharma foil pack blisters

Huh, damn. Guess I am just a hyper responder to t3 and t4. If I start running even 100mcg t4, despite the long half life of 7 days and the fact that it shouldn't build up that fast, within 1-2 days I begin having bad muscle weakness and feel myself going flat.

It's by far most noticeable in cardio for me. Whereas with no t3/t4 my limiting factor is either leg pumps or getting short of breath, if I'm on t3/t4 my legs feel too weak to run after a short time. (Trail running, not treadmill or bike). It's not placebo I've tried it too many times, and this is even on large caloric surplus with high carbs.

Even small doses make me feel too shitty to want to use it.

Not trying to hijack this thread, was just curious. Thanks

 

[Flocci]

Huh, damn. Guess I am just a hyper responder to t3 and t4. If I start running even 100mcg t4, despite the long half life of 7 days and the fact that it shouldn't build up that fast, within 1-2 days I begin having bad muscle weakness and feel myself going flat.

It's by far most noticeable in cardio for me. Whereas with no t3/t4 my limiting factor is either leg pumps or getting short of breath, if I'm on t3/t4 my legs feel too weak to run after a short time. (Trail running, not treadmill or bike). It's not placebo I've tried it too many times, and this is even on large caloric surplus with high carbs.

Even small doses make me feel too shitty to want to use it.

Not trying to hijack this thread, was just curious. Thanks

What doses of t4 have you tried and did the degree of weakness and feeling shit get worse as you increased the dose?

 

[FakeName123]

What doses of t4 have you tried and did the degree of weakness and feeling shit get worse as you increased the dose?

I've tried doses between 100-200mcg with and without t3. Yes they both get worse with increased dose. I don't think I am ever going to use them again. Possible exception if I get labs one day and it comes back too low. But I've gotten labs recently after 5 weeks off everything and free t3 and free t4 were mid normal range so I severely doubt it