Terry Schiavo...I need ot get this off my chest

PHIL HERNON · Mar 27, 2005

I cant believe that they are letting this girl starve to death. Am I missing somethign here? Thety are not unplugging a life support machine. They are removing her food tube. What a horrible way to go. This has got to be worse than the electric chair or hanging, and this lady commited no crime.

5F00ter · Mar 27, 2005

Death and Capitalism

Yeah I can't agree with you more. I asked a friend the other day who was for the husbands control doesn't it amount to starving some one. His answer was well if they can't feed themselves, well than it's not natural for them to live. My response to him and all of you that do support this is simple, so than you belive all babies with any problem from birth defects to premature should die too, for they have that same inability yet we nurture them. It is a basic part of human nature to care for everyone in the "herd". In our Ultra-Capatalistic market where surviaval of the fittest is rule this very "natural" indigenous part of humanity is scorned, and that is why I am un-abashed to be called a liberal and belive it is the very right of every human to do within reason, what ever is neccesary to help one other. But that wouldn't make much cents, huh?

Here are a couple links, including the horrible pains of dieing from starvation...

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/9/22/165543.shtml

Over the course of a few days, Terri will lapse into uncontrollable seizures. She will sweat excessively at first, then her skin will crack, as will her lips, tongue, and eyes. She may have nosebleeds because her nasal passages will have dried out. Because of the dehydration of the stomach, the acid concentration in the stomach will have become extremely low, causing vomiting. Her vital organs will contract, throwing them into painful spasms. Her body temperature will fluctuate, then fall. The fluid in her body will have migrated toward the skin, causing swelling. She will fall into shock, and then regress into a coma, and finally death.

rauljimenez · Mar 27, 2005

I don't agree with removing a feeding tube to any human being but this is something that we cannot control guys. The girl has been in a vegetative-coma state for 15 years, not 1-2 hell even 6 years but 15 years in a feeding tube unit waiting for suddenly the brain to do some kind of movement or response. I'm talking here no neuron responses for 15 years, thats a lot of time being practically death in a bed getting fed on everyday by tubes, that doesn't sound normal for me.

I don't want to be the judge in that case, it really sucks. On one side you got a life and on the other you know that this girl probably will be death her whole life and being fed forever.

gooey · Mar 27, 2005

wait a minute...

did they already not diagnose the fact that her cerebral cortex has been disabled? I am be wrong but this is the portion of the brain that recognizes pain and differentiates it. I dont think she is able to feel, she has been so incompacitated that she cannot feel. Does anyone really know? I dont know, all I know if I am unable to care for myself and I am in that same situation please pull the plug and let me go, let me not feel and be that way anymore. Her body may be starving but what is left alive. My grandmother died of lung cancer disease, she looked like a holocaust victim, lifeless unable to move and communicate in anyway, in pain connected to a push button morphine that she could not push. She was dying a slow death and would not let go, and all we could do is watch and let her go on her way. Our family did the same, pulled her life support and let her go. Maybe she wants to die that is her choice, maybe she told her husband that if she was in this point that is what she wanted. What right do people have to get into there business, what right does the government have to legislate what she possibly wanted, her life is not her parents. I think in a matter of respect people need stay out of other people business no offense to anyone here, just that people are arguing and debating over someone elses life and decisions. Just my opinion, Im staying out of the situation and the respecting the people in it.
gooey

PHIL HERNON · Mar 27, 2005

But

Her parents and family still get joy in seeing her and hope keeps them going also. We are just not killing one person here, we are destroying a whole family. Just because her husband is not sexually or emotionally attracted to her anymore and she cannot fend for herself without loving tender care from her family to live, we must murder her? If this is not homicide, what is? If I took my father, locked him in a cage, did not feed him or give him water, and he died aganizingly 12 days later while I video taped this, would I be in trouble? I had no use for him, he didnt pay the bills, he just used me for love and companionship. He just took up space on the couch and commandeered my TV set.

PHIL HERNON · Mar 27, 2005

Also

Didnt we just find a T-Rex cell? T-Rex vascular tissue? 10 years ago, this would have been laughed at. Have not people come out of a coma after 12 years just recently? What role could stem cells have in this case in 2-3 years?

rauljimenez · Mar 27, 2005

Yeah , technology is doing a lot of things I agree. But in my opinion i think Schiavo has battled enough herself and I think she needs to rest in peace. What I don't like is the fact of removing her feeding tube, and not giving her water... thats not humanitarian to me, hell I would prefer a lethal inyection to that.

gooey · Mar 27, 2005

cmon....

PHIL HERNON said:
Her parents and family still get joy in seeing her and hope keeps them going also. We are just not killing one person here, we are destroying a whole family. Just because her husband is not sexually or emotionally attracted to her anymore and she cannot fend for herself without loving tender care from her family to live, we must murder her? If this is not homicide, what is? If I took my father, locked him in a cage, did not feed him or give him water, and he died aganizingly 12 days later while I video taped this, would I be in trouble? I had no use for him, he didnt pay the bills, he just used me for love and companionship. He just took up space on the couch and commandeered my TV set.

remem what the media feeds u and what the actual truth may be. No one except the family and close ones know what is exactly going on there, the media just hypes it so u watch. Your life is your life. Maybe she chose this, not her parents. They did not lock her up she has been in this condition for how long, they diagnosed numerous probs with her and her ever reviving her cortex is DEAD brain tissue death!!!! They didnt lock her up in a room or a cage she fell into this not her fault or her parents. Different circumstances, would anyone else here want to be in that position? So easy to say that its wrong, but whose decision is it if it is or not, hers! Maybe she chose that, maybe she didnt but what right does anyone have to get into that families business. This is her husband, her mate, her partner, the one who knew her inside and out. She may have wanted this, but her parents do not. Whose choice is it? I think it has been made. Let her be at piece. Let her suffer no more.
gooey

Skip · Mar 27, 2005

No one knows for sure if she feels pain or is the least bit responsive at all. THAT is the problem and the reason her tube should not be removed. I saw a vote somewhere where it was something like 104 dems to 71 reps to keep the tube in. I was embarrassed to be a republican.

We are becoming more and more desensitized to life, as a society. It sickens me.

Skip

gooey · Mar 27, 2005

rauljimenez said:
hell I would prefer a lethal inyection to that.

unfortunately the govt has euthanasia illegal too, remem the whole Dr. Kavorkia n thing years ago. Yea I agree give the person 18,000 mg of postassium and a bunch of anasthesia and let them go. But that would be easy and with all the religion and moral issues it cannot happen.
gooey

rauljimenez · Mar 27, 2005

Skip said:
No one knows for sure if she feels pain or is the least bit responsive at all. THAT is the problem and the reason her tube should not be removed. I saw a vote somewhere where it was something like 104 dems to 71 reps to keep the tube in. I was embarrassed to be a republican.

We are becoming more and more desensitized to life, as a society. It sickens me.

Skip

I'm sure there has been a lot of (CNS) and Peripheral Nervous system tests in her 15 years being in a vegetative state for federal and supre court judges to come to that decision. The only wrong thing I see about all this is the way they want her to die... no water or food? thats pure bullshit to me.

MikeS · Mar 27, 2005

Have you all ever heard of a hospice? Its the same thing-they decide to let a terminal patients life expire instead of hopelessly prolonging it and the associated agony. And its done in the same manner-they dont feed of hydrate the patient. They keep the lips and face moist and the patient is sedated, more as days go on, until coma is induced. It does appear pretty horrible (nothing like what 5fter describes-where did you get that?) but actually the patient is in no pain. My dear mother passed in a hospice in a similar way.

paperbolix · Mar 27, 2005

how does she go 8 days w/o dying, i feel like i'm dying after 6 hours w no food.

Florida law says that if someone is brain-dead, the next of kin, in this case the husband decides weather or not to pull the plug..thats why the courts rule this way and theres nothing anyone can do about it..

maybe they should change the law that any kin can decide that the brain dead person stay plugged in as long as they're willing to pay for it..in this case the parents are willing to pay for it..they'll probably change the law later something like that

LATS · Mar 27, 2005

skip, actually the vote was reverse from what you stated.. the repubs voted to keep the tube in and many dems voted to have it removed.. repubs are pro life and think that it should be spared (life) irregardless of circumstance.. alot of dems think that since she is not capable of coming out of the veg state that she should be "spared" living like this..
it is a tough issue.. i had a discussion the other day with someone about this.. being a republican i am pro life.. but, i do allow exceptions in the case of rape and incest whne the pregnancy can be terminated quickly.. so in that regard, i am in the grey area.. but, many christians with whom i have discussed this say that we should not play god and be able to end her life.. that is a stupid arguement since we have already played god by keeping her alive with feed tubes..if we had not done this in the beginning she would have died.. so did we not already play god? it has been 15 years that we have taken it upon ourselves to keep her alive against natures wishes.. doctors do this every day..in most cases we are very grateful.
on the other hand, pulling her feed tube is fricking barbaric.. letting her starve to death is beyond wrong.. why now? .. well because her husband is a fricking prick who wants to gain financially off her death.. plain and simple.. he has moved on and has kids with another women..he also has a life insurance policy involved.. now, why would he not just seek a legal divorce from the wife which can be granted for special circumstances by the parents and family? he then can move on.. so money has to be the issue.. he cared so much about her life that he started screwing around.. i do not blame him for moving on but, at least break the ties to the family and let them keep their daughter alive.. if that is what they want.. so be it.. he does not have to be involved.. that is why i detest the man so much..
the other issue i have is the fact that a judge already made a ruling in this case.. the congress did not like the ruling so they have stepped.. this is scarey shit people.. these are the same people that did not like what baseball was doing with their testing and stepped to threaten to take control.. can you believe that crap?? the goverment will take over baseball if they do not conform to their liking?? if congress is allowed to do this in the schivo and baseball ect.. we are screwed.. why have appointed judges at all? if congress can jump in and over rule the judges at will? stepping in on our private lives and affairs is getting out of control.. if they succeed in doing it baseball... now this case.. we are on a slippery slope and will not be able to stop them on any case..
back to the origional subject.. let her live.. let the parents see her.. pulling a feeding tube is disgusting.. if any judge has any balls, let him keep the hubby to the curb and let the parents have what little joy can be had in this situation..

Reload · Mar 27, 2005

This is why it's so important to have a living will/health care directive.
You know what...tomorrow is Easter. Most of us will be sitting around a table with immediate family. I can't think of a better time to express you wishes as to what you would or don't want done to you if ever in a similar situation.
Personally, if I were ever in Terry's shape (liquified cerebral cortex with extensive cotractures requiring total assistance for my every need), I would not want to subject my family to the exhaustive care that I would require.
Terry's husband was/is a nurse (like myself) so it doesn't surprize me he's gone to such lengths to make sure her wishes (according to her husband as she had no living will written down) were honored. It's an ethical dilemma that Gov't has no business in.
On the other hand I do feel that if her Mother and Father wanted to assume her total care than they should be allowed that responsibility. I feel that they should also absorb the excessive cost associated with her care as well and not expect my health care dollars be spent to maintain her in an irreversible vegetative state.
MikeS...for Hospice care to be warranted/justified the patient's condition shows that they have less than 2 months to live. In Terry's case she could be in a hospice indefinately = $$$. I know this because I watched my grandfather take his last breaths with my hands on his chest while in a Hospice...one of the heaviest days of my life.
It's one of those issues when you have to ask yourself, "what would I want if in the same situation"? Would you want your parents wiping your ass every day or would you want then to remember a vibrant, independent individual that had dreams and hopes?

gooey · Mar 27, 2005

amen

Reload said:
This is why it's so important to have a living will/health care directive.
You know what...tomorrow is Easter. Most of us will be sitting around a table with immediate family. I can't think of a better time to express you wishes as to what you would or don't want done to you if ever in a similar situation.
Personally, if I were ever in Terry's shape (liquified cerebral cortex with extensive cotractures requiring total assistance for my every need), I would not want to subject my family to the exhaustive care that I would require.
Terry's husband was/is a nurse (like myself) so it doesn't surprize me he's gone to such lengths to make sure her wishes (according to her husband as she had no living will written down) were honored. It's an ethical dilemma that Gov't has no business in.
On the other hand I do feel that if her Mother and Father wanted to assume her total care than they should be allowed that responsibility. I feel that they should also absorb the excessive cost associated with her care as well and not expect my health care dollars be spent to maintain her in an irreversible vegetative state.
MikeS...for Hospice care to be warranted/justified the patient's condition shows that they have less than 2 months to live. In Terry's case she could be in a hospice indefinately = $$$. I know this because I watched my grandfather take his last breaths with my hands on his chest while in a Hospice...one of the heaviest days of my life.
It's one of those issues when you have to ask yourself, "what would I want if in the same situation"? Would you want your parents wiping your ass every day or would you want then to remember a vibrant, independent individual that had dreams and hopes?

amen my friend, no truer words. Life is a precious thing enjoy it and love the best u can, but when its taken from u, its time.... Time to let go and stop trying to control what cannot be controlled.
gooey

gooey · Mar 27, 2005

sad isnt it...

LATS said:
the congress did not like the ruling so they have stepped.. this is scarey shit people.. these are the same people that did not like what baseball was doing with their testing and stepped to threaten to take control.. can you believe that crap?? the goverment will take over baseball if they do not conform to their liking?? if congress is allowed to do this in the schivo and baseball ect.. we are screwed.. why have appointed judges at all? if congress can jump in and over rule the judges at will? stepping in on our private lives and affairs is getting out of control.. if they succeed in doing it baseball... now this case.. we are on a slippery slope and will not be able to stop them on any case..

too much govt power, needs to get out of where it doesnt belong
gooey

Dave_19 · Mar 27, 2005

PHIL HERNON said:
I cant believe that they are letting this girl starve to death. Am I missing somethign here? Thety are not unplugging a life support machine. They are removing her food tube. What a horrible way to go. This has got to be worse than the electric chair or hanging, and this lady commited no crime.

i Thought this soon as I heard it too, what exactly does it mean when they say they "removed her feeding tube" if thats literal thats pretty terrible, I mean their has to be another way if its stone that shes beaing taking off life support

FrigginHuge · Mar 27, 2005

This whole situation is very upsetting. We can only hope that something positive comes out of it. It would be more humane to hold a pillow over her head and suffocate the poor woman.
IMO nothing is more precious than human life and it is a sad world we live in that more people do not feel that way.