Test + Primo + EQ...how would YOU run these compounds together?

[taslajrisi]

Nevermind, found this:

All anabolic -androgenic steroids (AAS) are diriatives of testosterone . Each has an index ratio assigned to it on how anabolic (actual building effects --> muscle tissue, bone density, ...) versus androgenic (male-like effects --> bodyhair, deepening the voice, prostate ... effects that originally helped you to become a man from the time you were a fetus to a matured adult) the compound is. A purely anabolic steroid would be ideal but it is not currently an option - they all exert some androgenic effects... but how much varies depending on the compound.

Testosterone is a natural androgen and the one used as a reference drug to the others. On the theraputic index for anabolic steroids , testosterone rates a 1 as the standard. Anabolic steroids were orignially developed to alter the testosterone molecule to increase anabolic functions and decrease androgenic - the ratio being the therapeutic index. For example, compared to testosterone ... Deca scores an 11-12... significantly more anabolic than androgenic.

The basic goal of stacking compounds is to increase the total AAS use with as little unwanted androgenic side effects as possible - stuff like prostate enlargement, effects on male pattern bladness, increase bodyhair, ... sometimes to limit water and/or fat retention as well...

For example, using 500mg of testosterone with 500mg of nandrolone per week versus using 1000mg of testosterone can have less of an impact on the prostate since you basically cut the total weekly androgen use with a nortestosterone diriative that has lower androgenic effects...

So why is testosterone even use in a cycle if it's deriatives have less androgenic side effects ? First off - nothing is better than testosterone . It is the hormone that your body is most accustomed to... you have it running through your veins every day your life. You shouldn't shut your system without, at the very minimal use a replacement dose of testosterone . But from clinical studies - you get the most anabolic effects from test using at least 300mg per week. I can not recall the pathway that many of heavy androgenic steroids take to have such a pronounced an effect on strength and muscle building - but I believe it has much more to do with the cross-overbinding to glucocorticoid receptors (cortisol blocking) than increaseing protein synthesis...

But in one sentance... androgenic means male-like while anabolic refers to the tissue building effect

another reason is H/H (crit) can get too high if you stay on heavy androgens too long because it build up over time.

 

[concreter]

If your looking to gain the most size and streanth test is were it's at, then add hgh to stay shreded. All other compounds{except tren and a few others} are used to up anabolism and not up androgens, otherwise we would all just do 1- 2 grms or more of test, tren, mast-----.I wish I could now looking at it.lol

 

[BarbaraBush]

well, i'd keep the test higher and drop the primo if it were me. primo is a really nice compound but as far as putting on noticeable mass in a short amount of time it is at the bottom of the list. its a great drug for recomp or cutting but for its price, there are better compounds for bulking.

 

[jackedrabbit]

Exactly, I'm trying to limit side effects but hold muscle. Being 43 and busting concrete in the 90's all summer, plus lower calories and less training it seems to make sence to {cruize} on a safer anabolic, Same reason I wont use tren then, {even though I'd love to}.

Sounds like I can learn a lot from you. I'm only 27 and pretty new to this.

How long have you been using? When did you decide to blast and cruise? Did you have kids while using?

 

[jackedrabbit]

OK guys, here's my final decision -

Test @ 400
EQ @ 600
Primo @ 800

I feel like this is the best way to go. Lower androgen levels since I'm lowering the Test, and I'm running the EQ and Primo at their most effective dose levels. I could go HIGHER with Primo, but I don't have the $$$ to spend. I think 800 will work just fine. A lot of people have said EQ has diminishing returns past 600mg's, and I don't want to fuck with RBC's more than I already am.

Input and thoughts? Gonna start this regimen on Monday.

 

[jackedrabbit]

well, i'd keep the test higher and drop the primo if it were me. primo is a really nice compound but as far as putting on noticeable mass in a short amount of time it is at the bottom of the list. its a great drug for recomp or cutting but for its price, there are better compounds for bulking.

So would you suggest something like this:

1g Test
600mg EQ

Is that better than my other plan above ^^

 

[concreter]

Only started back 2 yrs ago, lifted for 2 yrs prior to starting but lifted from 13-26 before I stopped. Then only busted concrete for the next 12yrs . Luckely muscle has memory and jumped back on quikly, went from 210-250 yrs clean. As far as your cycle you need to evaluate your last cycle. Maybe post priors, age, 27, weight and years under the iron. Plus adding clean mass is hard for most, thats why most bulk then cut.

 

[jackedrabbit]

Only started back 2 yrs ago, lifted for 2 yrs prior to starting but lifted from 13-26 before I stopped. Then only busted concrete for the next 12yrs . Luckely muscle has memory and jumped back on quikly, went from 210-250 yrs clean. As far as your cycle you need to evaluate your last cycle. Maybe post priors, age, 27, weight and years under the iron. Plus adding clean mass is hard for most, thats why most bulk then cut.

I started cycling about 2 years ago. Got a low test diagnosis so I took matters into my own hands. I always wondered why I'd always gain more fat than muscle when bulking up with clean foods. I always wondered why I weighed 150 pounds SKINNY FAT, even after lifting since high school.

Then I did a Test 250 cycle and I finally felt what it was like to be a young man. Strong, horny as fuck and confident. It turned my life around. I was getting depressed.

My first cycle was just Test, 250mg's for 10 weeks. Came off and PCT'd but there really was no point since my true levels were nil.

Second time I used was 2 months later..prepped for a show and got 2nd place. I used Test, Masteron, and Winny.

After my show, I just stayed on to catch the rebound growth window.

Used Test, Dbol and EQ. I blew up. Went from a stage-weight of 150 to a lean as fuck 195 in 3 months. REBOUND GROWTH WAS INSANE. You just get bigger and tighter. I kept diet just as strict as prepping. It was like I didn't gain any fat at all.

After that, I cruised for 3 months on 250mg's of Test only. Training and diet slacked a bit so I became kind of soft and lost some weight. I was around 185-188.

Then I increased the Test again, added Winny and cut down and recomped to a lean 183.

Then I hit up my current cycle, which brought me back up to 195.

And now, I need to decide on my dosing. Looking to be up to 200+ by December.

I just blast and cruise now. Once you start, blasting and cruising really is the only option. You never truly recover. Either you USE, or you DON'T use. Cycling is just an excuse, IMO and a waste of time.

 

[concreter]

With what your looking to gain 10-20pds youcan get away with a lower dose cycle as long as your training asnd diet are on par. Your still A young man so don,t push to hard, it's a marathon not a sprint. Also since it looks like your never coming off go slow the more you take know the more you may regret having to take later. 500 test and 600 primo and you should look great. I'm 240 now on 400/400.

 

[BarbaraBush]

So would you suggest something like this:

1g Test
600mg EQ

Is that better than my other plan above ^^

well, heres the thing: everyone responds differently to compounds, some people will do great off certain compounds at certain dosages while others get horrible sides or need higher dosages to gain - only you will know what kind of a stack will work best for you through experience and experimenting.

i really like eq personally, and you seem to respond well to that (or maybe it was the dbol + test/eq as dbol is synergistic with injectables and adds mass very quickly) so i'd go with the test + eq and hold off on the primo for your recomp. have you ever tried tren before? "clean bulking" is very effortless with tren, run maybe 75mg eod and you shouldn't get too severe sides and still be able to sleep while keeping bodyfat from accruing.

primo is a really great compound, low sides, quality muscle gains (which means slow) and has an effect of making your muscle bellies look fuller - all around amazing compound though its characteristics make it better suited for a recomp unless you got lots of money to burn running it at high dosages for a bulk

also just as an aside: i've ran eq well over a gram a week and eating a grapefruit every day or drinking grapefruit juice was enough to keep my hematocrit within the normal range. i was really surprised about it but just goes to show how everyone responds differently (or maybe my gear was underdosed lol)

 

[jackedrabbit]

Wow how did you feel on 1 g of EQ? Hunger and vascularity must have been nuts!

I'm going to drop the primo and save it for my next prep. Doing a show this coming spring/early summer.

I'm gonna do test @ 1g and tinker with EQ. maybe start with 600 and try 800.

 

[jackedrabbit]

Wow how did you feel on 1 g of EQ? Hunger and vascularity must have been nuts!

I'm going to drop the primo and save it for my next prep. Doing a show this coming spring/early summer.

I'm gonna do test @ 1g and tinker with EQ. maybe start with 600 and try 800.

 

[juiced]

Same here.
Didnt notice that much on 600mg per week.
Too mild for me.

yes i ran up to 800......nothing.....i dont have appetite problems and I stay pretty vascular the only thing I did notice was when i ran t3 i think it helped get a pump....not sure

 

[jackedrabbit]

yes i ran up to 800......nothing.....i dont have appetite problems and I stay pretty vascular the only thing I did notice was when i ran t3 i think it helped get a pump....not sure

Well, this is proof it affects people differently!

I have appetite problems when I'm eating clean foods. 4000 cals CLEAN is pretty rough day in and day out. I eat stuff like bagels and granola to help make it easier. Lots of PB, fruit, and beef. So pretty clean.

EQ @ 600mg made me hungry day in and out, and vascularity was disgusting. It was like I had a pump all day.

BUT - I was using the EQ during a post-contest rebound, so those gains are kinda different vs. regular bulking up/mass gaining. After starvation the body is just primed to grow, and if you don't overload it with junk like most competitors do, it can be seriously lean and big growth in an impressive manner.

 

[Juiceboy44]

Love how you blurred your cats face too on that pic lol

 

[Ghost..]

Toss the primo. Try test at 600, EQ at 600, and tren A at 75eod. You'll fall in love.

 

[concreter]

I just never responded good to eq, took at 600-16wks. Back to a basic bulker of test, deca and dbol drol mix. After that I'll use tren to harden it and primo to hold it. Tren is the ultimate just watch your tollerance and duration.

 

[BarbaraBush]

Wow how did you feel on 1 g of EQ? Hunger and vascularity must have been nuts!

I'm going to drop the primo and save it for my next prep. Doing a show this coming spring/early summer.

I'm gonna do test @ 1g and tinker with EQ. maybe start with 600 and try 800.

oh, i felt absolutely amazing it was my favorite cycle ever. i was experimenting with running an extremely high dosage cycle and i was running eq at 1.2g week along with some other compounds. when i added the d-bol i'd get a pump right out of bed in the morning simply by flexing my biceps/forearms, lol

no noticeable sides. my cholesterol levels got a little worse but bad cholesterol is one of those things that take years before it causes damage and bad levels can be quickly rectified.

 

[jackedrabbit]

I just never responded good to eq, took at 600-16wks. Back to a basic bulker of test, deca and dbol drol mix. After that I'll use tren to harden it and primo to hold it. Tren is the ultimate just watch your tollerance and duration.

I'm afraid of trying Tren. I've read up on it and it just sound scary, but I know it is the GOD of all AAS. It's the literature about how Tren can change brain chemistry and cause irreversible sexual sides that really freaks me out. But I know it's all "COULD happen" not WILL happen. But still...it's an even greater risk.

 

[BarbaraBush]

I'm afraid of trying Tren. I've read up on it and it just sound scary, but I know it is the GOD of all AAS. It's the literature about how Tren can change brain chemistry and cause irreversible sexual sides that really freaks me out. But I know it's all "COULD happen" not WILL happen. But still...it's an even greater risk.

i'm not aware of any "irreversible sexual side effects" associated with tren except if someone was using a very vague definition of the word and meant gyno. the erectile dysfunction, drop in libido, etc... is caused by excess prolactin that both tren and deca are notorious for causing. it is not permanent, once the levels go down you will feel normal again - running a dopamine agonist alongside a cycle of tren/deca will help prevent prolactin from reaching unbearable levels.

the thing about tren having an affect on the brain is very true though, as hormones play an intricate part in how the body and the brain functions - which means steroids, being hormones themselves, will have an effect on the brain and body! though, there isn't much cause for concern here, as the emotional or psychological effects steroids can cause are manageable however annoying they may be. heres an interesting excerpt i found about tren (19-nors) regarding excessive aggression exhibited in certain individuals who take them:

The second would be the mesolimbic area. The mesolimbic area controls our wellbeing and state of salience. It is the region where dopaminergic starts from the ventral tegmental area (VTA) and ends in the amygdala. The mesolimbic area gets most of its afferent signals from the serotonergic fibers originating in the raphe nucleus mostly modulated through serotonin 5ht2 receptors (2). Blocking these fibers either with 5ht2 antagonists or 5ht1 agonist would reduce overall mesolimbic activity. Nandrolone according to the data, increases this regional activity, possibly leaning 5ht2/5ht1 activational ratio positively through genomic or/and nongenomic effects. Interestingly, all progestins activate this region according to the study (7), trenbolone included.

General data suggest that psychotic behavior is a result of increased mesolimbic activity. This would explain the intolerable anxiety accompanied with high dose of progestagenic drugs like nandrolone or trenbolone. Presumably, trenbolone affects this site more acutely because it doesn’t have any estrogen effect on VMH which would lessen or gas out the psychotic behavior elicited from the amygdala.

(anecdotally: its quite rare to *transform* into a raging asshole on 19-nors though i did experience slight anxiety on high dose deca when combined with eq)