The diets almost over. Now What?

[MaTrlx]

Instead of...

being obsessed with gaining another 10lbs in a certain time frame, why not just focus on other aspects of life and just carry on with training and eating consistently in a smart manner...enjoy the journey....Trust me, you might just be surprised with the results...

 

[Pekkerwood]

Congrats on your success thusfar Robot.

I will admit I put on most of my bodyweight (good and bad) with the feedbag approach. Primarily because I did not know any better and I did not have access to good information, just anecdotal stuff at the gym and magazines. This was twenty years ago. BTW the GMAD was part of my program twenty five years ago!

There is certainly more than one path to enlightenment. I no longer feel the feedbag approach is the healthiest. I notice you did not specify "healthiest" in part of your criteria but I ask that you consider it.

I have definataly, in later years been able to lose weight and maintain or gain muscle mass, using hormones. I certainly feel your goals are realistic and can be reached without a "mass than cutter" approach. Ten lbs of muscle over two years is much more realistic.

I think that remaining leaner, fitter, and gaining steadily but slower will grow on you and help you manage cholesterol, BP, heart health, etc. I am going in a month for a consult for a hip replacement that I'm not sure I would have needed if I haven't pranced around this earth at 270-280 needlessly (and fat).

You have a good base and have made impressive changes in my opinion. I encourage you to look at alternate methods, as I feel that is the real reason you posted the query to begin with.

Continued Success,

Pwood

 

[robot]

It's odd to me that when I write, that my objective is to "put on 20 pounds of muscle in the next 2 years" that I get a bunch of people telling me it isn't or it shouldn't be or how about....

At 5' 9" , 207 this morning @ ~13% I think the objective is specific, measurable, attainable, realistic and timely. So whatever your opinion I believe it meets the criteria of a good objective.

My original question was how long to shift into maintenance before further modifying my diet after cutting.

The answer is about 2 weeks to give the metabolism a chance to balance out.

I'll reintroduce carbs slowly to the tune of 100 or so grams a day from my current 30-40 allowing the calories to increase until my weight is stable and then wait another 2 weeks to even out the keel. (I'm already consuming adequate protein/fat)

At that point I will likely increase my carbs by another 30-40 grams watch it for a week and see if I gain weight to the tune of 1/2 - 1 pound (250-500 calorie excess). I'll keep this level of weight gain going until my abs are just barely visible 15%.

Assuming I can actually add 10 pounds of muscle this year (about 9 months - May-Dec)

200 + 36 = 236 pound total weight
Starting @ 200 pds @ 8 % = 16 pounds of fat (It will likely be more like 195 pounds but i'm rounding)
20 + 16 = 36 pounds of fat at the end of december or 15% bodyfat.
(More than 10 would be fine too but unexpected).

Training will be either DC 2 way split (current program for the last 9 months) or a 5x5 variation. I suspect I could theoretically get more out of a 5x5 program but I really enjoy DC and beating the logbook so I'm undecided. I've tried volume training previously and I neither grew nor got stronger with it.

Cardio - 5 times a week 30 minutes.

Test/NPP will be the aas of choice, likely in the 1000/700 mg range

... Now explain to me what exactly why this is such a stupid plan. To me it seems like the best plan for achieving the objective - which to 10 pounds of lean muscle added to my frame @ 8-10% BF.

While I'm not sure how much muscle you guys burn off dieting down to 4% the muscle sticks around pretty much 100% at least to 12% in my experience to date.

 

[ericraven2003]

You looked so much better lean. Don't go back to the feed bag. Better to be smaller and lean then larger and soft.

 

[Jcagle]

It's odd to me that when I write, that my objective is to "put on 20 pounds of muscle in the next 2 years" that I get a bunch of people telling me it isn't or it shouldn't be or how about....

At 5' 9" , 207 this morning @ ~13% I think the objective is specific, measurable, attainable, realistic and timely. So whatever your opinion I believe it meets the criteria of a good objective.

My original question was how long to shift into maintenance before further modifying my diet after cutting.

The answer is about 2 weeks to give the metabolism a chance to balance out.

I'll reintroduce carbs slowly to the tune of 100 or so grams a day from my current 30-40 allowing the calories to increase until my weight is stable and then wait another 2 weeks to even out the keel. (I'm already consuming adequate protein/fat)

At that point I will likely increase my carbs by another 30-40 grams watch it for a week and see if I gain weight to the tune of 1/2 - 1 pound (250-500 calorie excess). I'll keep this level of weight gain going until my abs are just barely visible 15%.

Assuming I can actually add 10 pounds of muscle this year (about 9 months - May-Dec)

200 + 36 = 236 pound total weight
Starting @ 200 pds @ 8 % = 16 pounds of fat (It will likely be more like 195 pounds but i'm rounding)
20 + 16 = 36 pounds of fat at the end of december or 15% bodyfat.
(More than 10 would be fine too but unexpected).

Training will be either DC 2 way split (current program for the last 9 months) or a 5x5 variation. I suspect I could theoretically get more out of a 5x5 program but I really enjoy DC and beating the logbook so I'm undecided. I've tried volume training previously and I neither grew nor got stronger with it.

Cardio - 5 times a week 30 minutes.

Test/NPP will be the aas of choice, likely in the 1000/700 mg range

... Now explain to me what exactly why this is such a stupid plan. To me it seems like the best plan for achieving the objective - which to 10 pounds of lean muscle added to my frame @ 8-10% BF.

While I'm not sure how much muscle you guys burn off dieting down to 4% the muscle sticks around pretty much 100% at least to 12% in my experience to date.

Let me start my saying good job on your efforts and dedication! However, you asked a question and you got some pretty great replys, but sounds like you have a plan in your mind and your going to stick to it reguardless of who chimes in. Seems to me when you ask a question on this board your going to have to be open to some constructive criticism...if your not open to it don't ask. Everyone's body responds differently. Once you find something that works than stick with it. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

 

[esk221]

Somewhat off-topic, but I'd like for Robot to elaborate on his approach to keto and how he's achieved the results he's gotten so far.

Satisfy my curiosity and the debate can continue. Thanks!

 

[robot]

Let me start my saying good job on your efforts and dedication! However, you asked a question and you got some pretty great replys, but sounds like you have a plan in your mind and your going to stick to it reguardless of who chimes in. Seems to me when you ask a question on this board your going to have to be open to some constructive criticism...if your not open to it don't ask. Everyone's body responds differently. Once you find something that works than stick with it. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

The question I asked was never answered. I went out and found the answer myself on Lyle Mcdonald's site. But thanks for playing.

 

[robot]

Somewhat off-topic, but I'd like for Robot to elaborate on his approach to keto and how he's achieved the results he's gotten so far.

Satisfy my curiosity and the debate can continue. Thanks!

It's alright the topic was completely derailed from the first response and I never did get an answer to my question. People are much happier answering some other unasked question.

Averaging about 2 pounds a week. A quick 6 pound loss at the beginning, water and slowing down and having to mix things up now to keep it going at the end. The objective was to hit 8-10% @ 200 pounds and I should be pretty darn close to the mark.

Diet started jan 4, 228 pounds @ 20% +/- couple.
Weight 207 mar 18 12-13%
5 weeks and 4 days remaining to complete 16 weeks - ~10 pounds left to lose


Diet I used the palumbo template for a 200 pound man fairly strictly as a diet.
I've just started introducing Pro/Veg days this week (week 11 of 16) as the weight loss had started to stall.

Training: DC 2 Day split through to week 9, week 10 started with a 3 Day split as I began overtraining (shoulders and biceps not recovering). Strength continued to go up in all my lifts except squat and dead. Having a smaller waist has killed my squat for the moment. Deads have been entirely stalled stalled since about the 4rth week.. I continue to beat the log book in my little lifts even this week, not by much but still fighting for it.

Cardio started @ 40 minutes a day and was increased 5 minutes every week and split into 2 session when it hit 60 minutes. I'm currently doing 2 - 1 hours session on the treadmill per day.

Stuff
clenbuterol - started @ 20mcg and raised the dosage when weight loss stalled and cardio didn't help. currently @ 100mcg / day. Won't go any higher than 120.

test e @ 500 mg / wk
npp @ 100 mg / eod week 1-8
tren a @ 75 mg eod week 8-16

 

[qwerty_uk]

Both SantiagoMuscle and Phil answered your question fair enough they created a 3rd option of stay lean AND put on muscle, but why would you take offense to people giving you advise on how to achieve your goal whilst not sacrificing your hard work??

 

[aeliop]

Hey Robot

It's alright the topic was completely derailed from the first response and I never did get an answer to my question. People are much happier answering some other unasked question.

The question I asked was never answered. I went out and found the answer myself on Lyle Mcdonald's site. But thanks for playing.

It's odd to me that when I write, that my objective is to "put on 20 pounds of muscle in the next 2 years" that I get a bunch of people telling me it isn't or it shouldn't be or how about....

read the question next time.

.... and you still haven't answered the question. Just more lecturing.


And the "Is there a metabolic/physiologic advantage to maintaining a lowered body weight for a period of time before engaging in weight gain" is not a personal question.

.... all that said despite the fact that you are an extremely knowledgeable person. How you choose to respond to me simply leaves me irritated with your flippant and useless answers. The persona you have chosen is not helpful to me.

So I hope you understand when I say that it's simply easier for me to add you to my ignore list.

Phil used my question to jump on his soapbox rather than answer my question. As smart a guy as he is, he isn't terribly interested in helping in this case. He didn't read my posts or answer my questions but instead skimmed and used them to post his own tirade.

The question never did get answered but I don't suppose it matters. I'll do my research and figure out what works.
Looks like I found a clue

**broken link removed**

I am 11 weeks through a 16 week cutting keto diet. What is there to understand? I'm not acting I'm fucking dieting.

Start:
**broken link removed**

Current:

Gain muscle WHILE I lose fat? Thanks for the that phil, just what I needed.
Next time I cut my body fat from 20% to 8% in 16 weeks 'll keep that right at the top of my list of things to do.

Let me repeat the question.

When I'm finished my cutting diet is it best to maintain weight for a while and if so how long? What are the advantages/disadvantage of maintaining versus gaining?

Ask a fucking question and get a lecture on a topic that has nothing the fuck to do with the question.

You know a lot of guys chimed in and gave you some good advice and in my opinion you really came off like an Asshole in your above responses. Sorry you weren't told want you want to hear but since you really aint listening to logic I will spell it out for you in your own asshole like language.

1. You are currently Fat
2. You used to be a lot fatter
3. You dieted down to become less fat.
4. Your first "bulking" you did, honestly didn't yield all that much muscle (that is why your chest, arms, legs, etc.. are weak) but it did make you fat.
5. You had more success dieting down then you did bulking adding muscle
6. That being said you think that getting fatter will some how bring up all those under muscled weak parts?
7. You can't bulk up if you aren't lean to begin with, the term is called fattening up.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

HAhahhahhahahhha

You know a lot of guys chimed in and gave you some good advice and in my opinion you really came off like an Asshole in your above responses. Sorry you weren't told want you want to hear but since you really aint listening to logic I will spell it out for you in your own asshole like language.

1. You are currently Fat
2. You used to be a lot fatter
3. You dieted down to become less fat.
4. Your first "bulking" you did, honestly didn't yield all that much muscle (that is why your chest, arms, legs, etc.. are weak) but it did make you fat.
5. You had more success dieting down then you did bulking adding muscle
6. That being said you think that getting fatter will some how bring up all those under muscled weak parts?
7. You can't bulk up if you aren't lean to begin with, the term is called fattening up.

I so wanted to say that!!......maybe he will understand now?

 

[cachexic]

Very interesting thread.

I'm burning with questions though. Okay, I know the OP's plan is not to put on muscle while staying lean after he's done cutting; he already said he doesn't give a fuck about putting fat on after the cut.

BUT, let's pretend that wasn't the case. Let's say he cut down to 8% and now he wants to stay lean and put on muscle. Where does he go from here? If you haven't figured it out yet, that's the position I'm currently in.

I don't mean to derail the thread but I'm really goddamn curious and I feel this is relevant to the discussion.

What would you guys do? Slowly increase calories until you notice that you are putting on fat, then from that point finding a good caloric level to where you don't put on fat but your strength goes up? That was my plan, but Phil just said it's not that easy. So how the fuck do you do it, then? What other way could there be? How do you maintain BF% and increase muscle OPTIMALLY? Do I have to hire Phil to find out?

I never wanna go above 12% ever again. I wanna be lean forever.

 

[robot]

You know a lot of guys chimed in and gave you some good advice and in my opinion you really came off like an Asshole in your above responses. Sorry you weren't told want you want to hear but since you really aint listening to logic I will spell it out for you in your own asshole like language.

1. You are currently Fat
2. You used to be a lot fatter
3. You dieted down to become less fat.
4. Your first "bulking" you did, honestly didn't yield all that much muscle (that is why your chest, arms, legs, etc.. are weak) but it did make you fat.
5. You had more success dieting down then you did bulking adding muscle
6. That being said you think that getting fatter will some how bring up all those under muscled weak parts?
7. You can't bulk up if you aren't lean to begin with, the term is called fattening up.

Thanks again, and that wasn't the question.

I didn't ask
1 if I was fat
2. If I used to be fat.
3. Or if I was less fat.
4. If the first bulking I did yielded much - it did acutually. Lean I would have been 165 when I started - but again I didn't ask.
5. I can't even think of the question.
6. Again fairly retarded and not the question.
7. fuck it.

I asked, if there was a metabolic advantage to sustaining your weight for a period of time after dieting down.

Whatever the fuck point you think you are making really doesn't have anything to do with the question.

What I see here is a nuthugger gangbang.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Seriously

Thanks again, and that wasn't the question.

I didn't ask
1 if I was fat
2. If I used to be fat.
3. Or if I was less fat.
4. If the first bulking I did yielded much - it did acutually. Lean I would have been 165 when I started - but again I didn't ask.
5. I can't even think of the question.
6. Again fairly retarded and not the question.
7. fuck it.

I asked, if there was a metabolic advantage to sustaining your weight for a period of time after dieting down.

Whatever the fuck point you think you are making really doesn't have anything to do with the question.

What I see here is a nuthugger gangbang.

You have no respect....I hope you get what you deserve.

 

[robot]

You have no respect....I hope you get what you deserve.

I took you off ignore for the moment.

Respect? I asked a straight forward question and got a lecture on a different topic.

I should respect arrogance and pile ons? I should respect cheap shots?

I'm sure you are a great coach. I can see it in your tone and your ability to communicate. What I see is professional arrogance.

I see others following your lead.

Good work Phil.

 

[SantiagoMuscle]

.

.

 

[Jcagle]

You have no respect....I hope you get what you deserve.

Exactly....good luck to you getting help with your disrespectful attitude in the future...oh wait..stand-by guys he went else where a got what he was looking for! Good luck with that! Loved your response back Aeliop, so damn true man!

 

[cachexic]

I probably should have started a new thread.

 

[pesty4077]

In a few more weeks I'll declare success. 16 weeks of neurotic undereating will come to an end. I should hit about 8-10%. Not bodybuilding good but the lowest I've been so far by a couple of percent over last year.

So the question.

Do I hold and maintain for a couple of weeks? months? and stabilize before putting on the feedbag and trying for another 10 pounds of muscle?

OR

Do I jump straight for the feedbag and try for another 10 pounds of muscle?


I'm not sure what the advantages/disadvantages of leaning out and maintaing vs. jumping back in and eating are. Last year I finished my diet @ 10-12% and got back to eating and really didn't think about anything but lifting more weight and filling my stomach. I gained too much fat but I also put on 10 pounds of lean muscle.

This year I'd like to put on less fat and more muscle or at least as much muscle as I can with the minimum fat necessary.[/QUOTE]



Robot, I am confused with your original post Did you not ask if you should stay lean with minimum fat loss? Gain muscle without going back to being fat? Look at what you are saying, you got the responses for what you asked. Instead of taking the advice, you get pissed off. You probally should just do what makes you happy and don't asked for our advice.

 

[chris250]

I say continue to get leaner until you hit single % b.f. ...IMO ...

You could probably do it on the keto (palumbo type of diet) Yeah, you probably get under 200lbs...But you will look even better at under 200lbs, and even better yet at 190lbs...(or around that) It will probably take longer than the 5 weeks you have left though...

So my opinion is continue to keep dieting until you hit single % bodyfat...(around 6-8%) and see where your really at...then after that decide if you like this look (being pretty lean) or if you want to put on more muscle...

that probably doesnt answer your question...but I gave it a shot