The drug(s) most responsible for killing bodybuilders

[Biggerp73]

Recent events got a few of us thinking, and a couple days ago it sort of hit me. I know in my own health history, what caused my heart issues was extreme doses of HGH. Yes I was also using steroids and stimulants and eating trash, but the issue was directly correlated and caused by the GH. And when we look back at the deaths of guys, we’ve seen recently a guy who appears to have been using extreme doses of GH as well, and guys like Dallas MacArver whose autopsy apparently showed an insanely large heart. While all the other drugs cause problems, it seems to me that very high doses of GH is likely the most potent killer.

 

[luki7788]

I have been using GH continuously since 2014 and since 2016 no less than 10iu per day. My heart and other organs are enlarged but it is not even close to what Dallas or Rich had. I do a heart and abdominal ultrasound every year for my own control and my organs do not grow stronger but remain the same all the time. And as all the radiologists who did my tests say - the enlargement of your organs is normal because you are twice as big as the average person so it was even strange that they were not enlarged

 

[Swifto]

Recent events got a few of us thinking, and a couple days ago it sort of hit me. I know in my own health history, what caused my heart issues was extreme doses of HGH. Yes I was also using steroids and stimulants and eating trash, but the issue was directly correlated and caused by the GH. And when we look back at the deaths of guys, we’ve seen recently a guy who appears to have been using extreme doses of GH as well, and guys like Dallas MacArver whose autopsy apparently showed an insanely large heart. While all the other drugs cause problems, it seems to me that very high doses of GH is likely the most potent killer.

Why is your issue directly correlated to HGH?

Cardiomegaly can be caused by a number of variables. I dont think one variable can be responsible for death of bodybuilders when the a cardiac event leads to death. Heart attack, cardiac arrest, atherosclerosis, arteriosclerosis, clots, etc...

When you combine massive doses of HGH, anabolic steroids, high bodyweight, little/no cardio, low nutrient dense foods, no CT scans or echo, you are asking for problems.

Then add in GLP-1s, statins, blood thinners, beta blockers, Jardiance, Nebivolol, etc... No body knows how all of these drugs interact and strain the heart.

 

[Swifto]

I have been using GH continuously since 2014 and since 2016 no less than 10iu per day. My heart and other organs are enlarged but it is not even close to what Dallas or Rich had. I do a heart and abdominal ultrasound every year for my own control and my organs do not grow stronger but remain the same all the time. And as all the radiologists who did my tests say - the enlargement of your organs is normal because you are twice as big as the average person so it was even strange that they were not enlarged

ChaseIrons is the same who's also used massive doses of HGH. No heart enlargement.

 

[Pheedno]

I haven't used massive doses continuously, but been 2-8 ius(85% of the time) from my second show in 2008 to now. My last show was 2010.
I had a torso CT scan last year. Heart is normal size. My only issue is a high CAC score but I'm betting on trash food, heavy bulks and smoking from age 15-30.

 

[bigzzz]

Recent events got a few of us thinking, and a couple days ago it sort of hit me. I know in my own health history, what caused my heart issues was extreme doses of HGH. Yes I was also using steroids and stimulants and eating trash, but the issue was directly correlated and caused by the GH. And when we look back at the deaths of guys, we’ve seen recently a guy who appears to have been using extreme doses of GH as well, and guys like Dallas MacArver whose autopsy apparently showed an insanely large heart. While all the other drugs cause problems, it seems to me that very high doses of GH is likely the most potent killer.

What are 'extreme' doses of HGH in your eyes?

 

[M@NU]

higher doses of HGH IF used properly and if it is proper quality is the best one could use in combination with a therefor lower dosage of steroids. The synergy is great and it allows to get away with a lower dosage of roids (which put more strain on the body)
HGH was also the culprit that lead to my heart issues where they found out that i have a genetic cardiomyopathy.
but the issue was the hgh ive bought turned out to be the biggest crap on earth (88% purity, over 3% dimer). This was years ago when janoshik tests where not as
widespread and you did not have 100 sources for ugl hgh.
Ive gained tons of water weight within a week of using it (same dosage ive used before with meditrope) and my heart simply couldnt handle it - which lead to water in the lungs and acute heart failure (EF of 14% two days after arriving at the ER)

 

[A50#]

Anabolic steroids in general can cause the heart to enlarge, especially when you're abusing them. Dallas was known to use extreme amounts, allegedly half a vial of testosterone per week wasn't uncommon on top of numerous other items. One of the biggest health issues I have seen, including myself is ignoring high blood pressure. The thinking that 'those numbers are good for me' or 'it's just high because I'm on cycle' or 'those numbers are good for a big man' used to be my motto and I had it all wrong. One of my best friends who's never touched a weight in his life is 6'7 320 lbs and has a resting heart rate of 60-65 BPM and a BP of 120/70, thats what we should all strive for with health and longevity.

 

[Josefein421]

I’d argue it is testosterone that is most deadly when aromatization isn’t controlled, hypertension exists unknown and the left ventricle and kidneys take a pounding undetected until too late.

 

[Mufasa123]

Death of BBers, I doubt hgh or aas is the major factor or even a real big one if one monitors properly and isn't dumping mega amounts.

Recreational drugs, diuretics, maybe other stuff... that's an issue.

Really though the biggest risk most run here is just plain size and strain on body. If unchecked that can lead to all sorts of issues (blood pressure - - > kidneys - - > etc). This is why monitoring is so important. Get ahead of any issues and treat them or alter behavior before major damage occurs.

I've lost of a few friends who spent too much time around the 350lbs mark. One friend who's still with us dropped down after competing but kidney issues now have him on dialysis and likely awaiting a transplant. Cause...safe to assume size (competed north of 350) combined with genetics and behavior yielded untreated high blood pressure over time and damage to kidneys.

Long winded way of driving home the first point...monitor yourself but all this shit is not a direct result of taking hgh and aas. It's other drugs driving it. 2nd order effect, and primary goal here for many is lots more muscle, well that can lead to issues very quickly also will compound issues with recreational and other risky drugs.

 

[Fleezy]

Dallas was known to use extreme amounts, allegedly half a vial of testosterone per week wasn't uncommon

half a vial a week is extreme?



as for what kills bodybuilders the most? diuretics probably..

 

[Sectør]

I’d say tren is the worst, far worse than hgh or any other steroid

Diuretics are also pretty terrible when abused, I’d put them worse than hgh as well

 

[luki7788]

half a vial a week is extreme?



as for what kills bodybuilders the most? diuretics probably..

Dallas and half vival??? Maybe day but not week lol

 

[A50#]

Dallas and half vival??? Maybe day but not week lol

My math was off this morning lol...I was thinking a half a vial was 5000mg for some reason. I know in this day and age some people don't think that's extreme for bodybuilding but I'm talking about in terms of health and longevity.

 

[Mufasa123]

I’d say tren is the worst, far worse than hgh or any other steroid

Diuretics are also pretty terrible when abused, I’d put them worse than hgh as well

On the tren, purely from my own bloods - it's not that bad and when I look at levels of skewed bloods (call that proxy for damage potential even though flawed) vs results it's supperior to many. Everyone is different but my findings below.

Tren hits my lipids and liver values mostly. Glucose improves so just focusing on negatives. Hdl may go to 19ish from 39 and liver values move to top of range and at most a couple pts out (and this was Tren and winny on lipids last time and my lowest hdl ever).

Orals hit lipids just as bad, maybe worse mg to my, and definitely move liver more though I'm never much above top of range and often still in range. And this is winstrol, anadrol or anavar not superdrol or halo (never used them).

Primobolan at 600mg hits my hdl as hard as Tren at 350mg. And Tren is just a Saturn Rocket more effective ie I can accomplish the same on 6 weeks of Tren at 350 as 12 weeks of primo at 600. Just assume same testosterone
In background.

While I don't use Tren a lot, when I look at those numbers, especially in the context of effectiveness of achieving a goal faster and maybe less time exposed to the drugs, it tells a different story. At least for me. I've seen more than a few people's bloods and vitals that blow up on Tren so risk/return is individual.

 

[Sectør]

On the tren, purely from my own bloods - it's not that bad and when I look at levels of skewed bloods (call that proxy for damage potential even though flawed) vs results it's supperior to many. Everyone is different but my findings below.

Tren hits my lipids and liver values mostly. Glucose improves so just focusing on negatives. Hdl may go to 19ish from 39 and liver values move to top of range and at most a couple pts out (and this was Tren and winny on lipids last time and my lowest hdl ever).

Orals hit lipids just as bad, maybe worse mg to my, and definitely move liver more though I'm never much above top of range and often still in range. And this is winstrol, anadrol or anavar not superdrol or halo (never used them).

Primobolan at 600mg hits my hdl as hard as Tren at 350mg. And Tren is just a Saturn Rocket more effective ie I can accomplish the same on 6 weeks of Tren at 350 as 12 weeks of primo at 600. Just assume same testosterone
In background.

While I don't use Tren a lot, when I look at those numbers, especially in the context of effectiveness of achieving a goal faster and maybe less time exposed to the drugs, it tells a different story. At least for me. I've seen more than a few people's bloods and vitals that blow up on Tren so risk/return is individual.

I mean no one is arguing its effectiveness but I think you’re trying to rationalize the negatives because of the gains if I’m being honest. Tren destroys my bloodwork, as it does for most people in even 6 weeks. Destroys it far worse than anything else I’ve run

 

[luki7788]

but without a doubt pizza every week at least and milk in bulk quantities are worse than many hormones

 

[TheOtherOne55]

The positive effects and negative effects of GH seem to be hiiiighly individual…just like annnny other BBing drug. 10-20iu can be a magic potion to some guys and a horrible addition to others. You used one example of Dallas (which is getting old) of one of the largest BBers ever as your point…and you self admittingly talk about eating like dog shit.

Lemme ask u a question @Biggerp73 , we see guys safely use large amounts of gear and others using large amounts of GH and have a clean bill of health…why do we see that yet when it comes to eating trash, like you mentioned, we don’t see that at allll? Of those 3, we ONLY see universal negative health consequences from the dogshit diet. i feel like everyone understands my point here. You can do 2 of the 3 safely…dog shit diet is not one of them.

 

[SDRaver]

Aren't those that are HIV+ prescribed 6mgs/18iu of GH a day? If so is there any heart issues in that demographic/ community attributed to GH?

 

[Fleezy]

Recent events got a few of us thinking, and a couple days ago it sort of hit me. I know in my own health history, what caused my heart issues was extreme doses of HGH. Yes I was also using steroids and stimulants and eating trash, but the issue was directly correlated and caused by the GH. And when we look back at the deaths of guys, we’ve seen recently a guy who appears to have been using extreme doses of GH as well, and guys like Dallas MacArver whose autopsy apparently showed an insanely large heart. While all the other drugs cause problems, it seems to me that very high doses of GH is likely the most potent killer.

Didn’t you say you used to use meth and also have HIV?