The drug(s) most responsible for killing bodybuilders

[EFShadow]

It is what it is bro.

 

[TODouble2]

Bahaha…fair call out.

I was using speech to text and what I actually said was “gym” pop and it translated into gen or general population, but yes, I think statins are up there. There was specially a Ted Talk talking about data extrapolation across the increased risk of death from the side effects of statins vs death rate of non treatment of hypercholesterolemia.

Overall statins led to a death rate that was multiple times higher than the attributed death rate of high cholesterol and high lipids. Looking at the sheer number of folks on statins, I think it’s right up there.

I always worry about this. After heart failure diagnosis my doc has me on statin and ezetimibe. Now ezetimibe seems to be a good drug from all ive seen. I wonder how well it works without the statin. I was going to ask the doc how he felt about continuing the ezetimibe and dropping the statin. Doubt he’ll go for it!

 

[TODouble2]

And to add to the thread…. I will echo some of what others have said.. genetics plays a huge role, along with mitigating your health alongside all these drugs.

If you take a ton of steroids and hormones, but live a healthy lifestyle and your organs are normal via scans, bloodwork is good…. You’re not in the same boat as someone who takes the same drugs and has high blood pressure, enlarged heart, low kidney function, etc… are the things we take good for you? Absolutely not.. but some people are more affected by them than others.

I should have seen the warnings years ago when I saw how I responded to things. My HDL was 4 at times. BP was high, diet never on point, not big on cardio.. I thought I was invincible because I was young.

It’s not in the cards for me to run toxic things or much of anything at all for that matter. So there’s no one thing, or clear cut answer to this question.

 

[Joltan]

From my research, it seems that HGH and insulin are the biggest contributors. Everyone knows HGH enlarges the organs (even in caloric deficits)…. But what a lot of people don’t know is that the bigger problem is that it adds visceral fat (fat underneath muscle and around organs - strongly correlated with serious health problems). Just like muscle memory, your body has fat memory - and visceral fat is always the first fat to come back and the last to go. So once you gain it once; you are stuck with it for life. Studies show that insulin is an even bigger contributor to visceral fat, but it’s mainly due to its over use. So when you combine the two, and all the insulin isn’t utilized… it’s a potent recipe for irreversible health damage.

 

[KingOfSushi]

From my research, it seems that HGH and insulin are the biggest contributors. Everyone knows HGH enlarges the organs (even in caloric deficits)…. But what a lot of people don’t know is that the bigger problem is that it adds visceral fat (fat underneath muscle and around organs - strongly correlated with serious health problems). Just like muscle memory, your body has fat memory - and visceral fat is always the first fat to come back and the last to go. So once you gain it once; you are stuck with it for life. Studies show that insulin is an even bigger contributor to visceral fat, but it’s mainly due to its over use. So when you combine the two, and all the insulin isn’t utilized… it’s a potent recipe for irreversible health damage.

You should do more research imo

 

[finephysique]

You should do more research imo

Yep Chat GPT was a bit off on that answer

 

[Joltan]

Yep Chat GPT was a bit off on that answer

Can you point out what exactly is off?

 

[NEMSZ]

Can you point out what exactly is off?

I think it’s just the blanket statement followed by false information based on zero scientific evidence.. Mostly just speculative bro science and at best, correlations..

Tons of AIDs/HIV patients around taking 18iu a day without enlarged organs…

I would venture on to say millions of people, if not 10’s of millions of people have been using GH for decades, we don’t see some giant epidemic of enlarged organs in people.

Even more to the point, there have been plenty of people on this board even, who have taken pretty high doses of anabolics/GH/insulin, who also took as much care of themselves as possible with mitigation practices and interventions, who don’t have enlarged organs via body scans.

Saying a blanket statement like “GH causes XYZ” or “Insulin is responsible for XYZ” is like saying “Spoons are the reason some people are obese”

No…

Sure, there are drugs in this sport that have higher risk factors attached to them than others.. But this entire thread is ridiculous trying to pin point a single factor when the FACT is, it’s many factors combined..

If a person is abusing AAS/GH/Insulin, not taking the right supps/meds to mitigate any risks, not living the right lifestyle, doing cardio, getting scans and blood work, eating as healthy as diet as possible, walking around with insanely high blood pressure and pushing themselves into the upper 200’s and 300+lbs mark… OF COURSE they’re going to have issues.. It’s not like those issues wouldn’t be there if the person didn’t use GH or insulin to get there..

Of course, we’re talking about guys who are serious about this endeavor/sport and are pushing the limits..

You also have your fair share of questionable minded people, like the OP in this thread, who did Meth for years, eats junk food A LOT, blasted 2-3 bottles of GH per day and was on GRAMS of gear for a year straight, probably walking around with insanely high blood pressure and not taking the right supps/meds and not doing cardio or living the lifestyle or getting blood work or scans done and he wants to blame his bout with CHF on some random AAS

I promise you, the people who are responsible and even moderate in their use, aren’t having these issues..

 

[Liter O' Test]

Deca and Tren, not the effects on cholesterol or kidneys but the mind.
End up in jail and get stabbed to death, live alone and have body dysmorphia, ride your motorcycle drunk at 100mph coming back from the club
polypharmacy, rec drugs, stimulants, risk taking behavior and all stemming from 19nors, which in my opinion have the strongest effect on the brain.
Many people can handle it, some people can't, some people think they can and don't know when they're too deep and going down the wrong path.

 

[gib68sg]

Deca and Tren, not the effects on cholesterol or kidneys but the mind.
End up in jail and get stabbed to death, live alone and have body dysmorphia, ride your motorcycle drunk at 100mph coming back from the club
polypharmacy, rec drugs, stimulants, risk taking behavior and all stemming from 19nors, which in my opinion have the strongest effect on the brain.
Many people can handle it, some people can't, some people think they can and don't know when they're too deep and going down the wrong path.

I think it’s strange (and wrong, personal opinion) to outline the stuff that affects some people and not all of them and point to that. I have zero mental side effects on tren, but I also don’t drink and do not touch recreational drugs.

 

[Jefe]

All wrong.

It’s not taking the drugs on an empty stomach.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

All wrong.

It’s not taking the drugs on an empty stomach.

Don't take pills while hanging upside-down. Always flip to neutral.

 

[KingOfSushi]

End up in jail and get stabbed to death, live alone and have body dysmorphia, ride your motorcycle drunk at 100mph coming back from the club

Yeah I’m gonna go ahead and say most people aren’t stabbed to death, going to jail, or drinking and driving cause of deca or tren. While I don’t have the data, I think I can safely say this isn’t even a point worth mentioning based on the topic of this thread.

 

[Liter O' Test]

Yeah I’m gonna go ahead and say most people aren’t stabbed to death, going to jail, or drinking and driving cause of deca or tren. While I don’t have the data, I think I can safely say this isn’t even a point worth mentioning based on the topic of this thread.

I've seen many marriages ruined by tren, my point is that mental health is just as important as physical health because it'll kill you quicker.

I think it’s strange (and wrong, personal opinion) to outline the stuff that affects some people and not all of them and point to that.

With that line of reasoning then we can't include LVH, arteriosclerosis etc. It's not just one thing killing body builders, its multiple contributing factors leading to an event.

Even GLPs affect neurochemistry.

 

[kadafi2]

And I like what Liter O' Test mentioned. Even without tren, other steroids can also fuck with your head. When a colleague at work says something to you and instead of listening you see in your mind how you are fucking her on the table behind you, it can be irritating. I won't even write what I did to her shoes recently, because it's shameful I wrote it a bit humorously, but it's a good observation that you can mess with your body not only physically, but also your mind.

 

[Bleed]

In my mind we can break up the population at risk of death as it pertains to this discussion to 2 groups of people.

You have your average gym rat and then you have competitive bodybuilders. I draw the distinction due to the fact that competitive bodybuilders tend to have larger swings in weight from dialing it in for multiple competitions and are more likely to use diuertics than your average gym rat.

One thing glossed over occasionally is sleep. The amount I hear guys say they get 4 hours of sleep like its a ribbon you wear on your chest is far too much.

You dont sleep and live a normal life, you are shaving years off your life. You dont sleep and you weigh over 260 pounds, beat yourself up in the gym, stuff yourself full of food, and take peds, how much worse is that?

I think, just based on the general health of people I know who dont live this lifestyle going into the ditch, that stress and the grindset culture of "WORK MORE. WORK HARDER." accompanied with the idea that working 100 hour weeks is the key to success, might be killing a whole lot of people.

How many threads do we have saying "Excessive drug use = BAD"?

Id bet there are more guys here who think working 100+ hour weeks is a good idea than there are that dont know taking excessive dosages is playing with fire.

I think the "more is better" drug is the problem.

 

[massephase]

And I like what Liter O' Test mentioned. Even without tren, other steroids can also fuck with your head. When a colleague at work says something to you and instead of listening you see in your mind how you are fucking her on the table behind you, it can be irritating. I won't even write what I did to her shoes recently, because it's shameful I wrote it a bit humorously, but it's a good observation that you can mess with your body not only physically, but also your mind.

exactly why I don't take deca anymore lol. When you can't listen to your 60yo female boss because you imagine fucking her (which off deca would be a gross thought) then the point of diminishing returns has been crossed

 

[beastmode121]

Listen..

Any hormone you put in your body may cause

Faster heart rate, high blood pressure, high blood sugar, high cholesterol, high triglycerides and high LDL, enlarged prostate

So what do you do? First, stop taking a stupid amount of diuretics, high or low K kills.

Treat the symptoms
1.blood pressure meds
2.aspirin
3. Statins
4.metformin
5.low dose beta blockers
6.TUDCA and glutathione
7. Prostate supplement or finastride


P.S. this not a medical advice of any sort, just a bro tip from a medical professional

 

[specter]

I think it’s just the blanket statement followed by false information based on zero scientific evidence.. Mostly just speculative bro science and at best, correlations..

Tons of AIDs/HIV patients around taking 18iu a day without enlarged organs…

I would venture on to say millions of people, if not 10’s of millions of people have been using GH for decades, we don’t see some giant epidemic of enlarged organs in people.

Even more to the point, there have been plenty of people on this board even, who have taken pretty high doses of anabolics/GH/insulin, who also took as much care of themselves as possible with mitigation practices and interventions, who don’t have enlarged organs via body scans.

Saying a blanket statement like “GH causes XYZ” or “Insulin is responsible for XYZ” is like saying “Spoons are the reason some people are obese”

No…

Sure, there are drugs in this sport that have higher risk factors attached to them than others.. But this entire thread is ridiculous trying to pin point a single factor when the FACT is, it’s many factors combined..

If a person is abusing AAS/GH/Insulin, not taking the right supps/meds to mitigate any risks, not living the right lifestyle, doing cardio, getting scans and blood work, eating as healthy as diet as possible, walking around with insanely high blood pressure and pushing themselves into the upper 200’s and 300+lbs mark… OF COURSE they’re going to have issues.. It’s not like those issues wouldn’t be there if the person didn’t use GH or insulin to get there..

Of course, we’re talking about guys who are serious about this endeavor/sport and are pushing the limits..

You also have your fair share of questionable minded people, like the OP in this thread, who did Meth for years, eats junk food A LOT, blasted 2-3 bottles of GH per day and was on GRAMS of gear for a year straight, probably walking around with insanely high blood pressure and not taking the right supps/meds and not doing cardio or living the lifestyle or getting blood work or scans done and he wants to blame his bout with CHF on some random AAS

I promise you, the people who are responsible and even moderate in their use, aren’t having these issues..

I read a paper years ago about football players, now i believe they dont super abuse GH like bodybuilders do dose wise, now roids, painkills erc sure. They where all insanely hyuge humans and all had organs that was enlarged vs an average human, lungs, heart, liver, spleen etc, i remember the conclusion was something like the bigger the body, the harder it has to work/deliver it superizes organs to help the body performe at that level.

 

[Biggerp73]

So I got banned for giving shit back to people who gave shit to me, pretty lame, but the fact other behaviors in my past damaged my health doesn’t vitiate the fact that I only had heart issues when I used high doses of GH, and the fact most guys who are dying young from PEDs seem to be guys who are abusing GH at high doses. Obviously other choices compound the matter, and high dose GH by itself, in isolation from other factors, isn’t going to pose the same problem, but it does seem that adding high dose GH to the mix is the thing that often is responsible for PED fatalities in bodybuilders who die young from the PEDs themselves.