The experiment: No Training for 21 weeks

[qbkilla]

Interesting experiment. I can't say I agree with your conclusions but it does prove that the whole Paul/carter chris beardsley gig that you must train every bodypart every 48 hours or you will shrink away to nothing is utter bullshit. Yet some people believe these unsupported claims and pay for their "optimal evidence based atrophy saving high frequency" programs which are basically an upper lower split with such low volume thar would make Mike mentzer proud

 

[KillerStack]

AMAZING post!

I've said the same before, to maintain you don't really even have to train, I think I said one workout every few weeks is plenty to maintain everything. And I've also said most of us aren't ever really gaining anything. We are mostly losing and regaining lbm, that's where we spend 99% of the time.

 

[aHarness]

Interesting experiment. I can't say I agree with your conclusions but it does prove that the whole Paul/carter chris beardsley gig that you must train every bodypart every 48 hours or you will shrink away to nothing is utter bullshit. Yet some people believe these unsupported claims and pay for their "optimal evidence based atrophy saving high frequency" programs which are basically an upper lower split with such low volume thar would make Mike mentzer proud

For someone you dislikes Paul Carter so much you sure talk about him a lot bro lol

 

[gauge22-v2]

my love for training

This ^.

I would lift weights if it did ZERO for me physically because I love it.

 

[comedycentral]

Very interesting. After years of traditional bodybuilding training I got pretty bored and for the last year have trained far more athlete style now I’m 50. My lower body work is prowler sled based with band work for hams and my upper is back to chins dips weighted push ups etc. I haven’t lost any size. Haven’t gained any either but enjoy training more this style at the minute.

 

[Flex500]

I get what you’re saying, and that’s an interesting philosophy. However there’s 2 questions I have:

1. Do you think this would effectively apply to guys who are well above their natural limit? Let’s not forget the total AAS needed to maintain just with training.

2. Would this training philosophy work well in a fat loss scenario?

No sir. It's great commentary and a solid point. It does not. There is a line where this whole thing changes. I also don't think it's just about the genetic limit, but about the cosmetic look PED's give you, combined with a routine type of "pump training", the inflammation, the round look. I hesitate to say that stuff "isn't real", but it's just part of the cosmetic look you get that absolutely would not stay. I also think how you train and what you eat over years will determine how much of it sticks...or does not.

The entire thing falls apart when you bring that into it.

You know what is a great example...Paul Barnett. If he stopped drugs, training, and all carbs I'd bet he'd look like an average 55 year old in 16 weeks. I love Paul, not talking ****. On the flip side I bet if Justin Harris stopped training for 20 weeks he's lose that fullness, but largely wouldn't lose a lot.

 

[Flex500]

But what about all the other benefits that come from exercise and training- physically and mentally?

Sure, you may “maintain” the muscle, but what regression in health has occurred from not exercising or training for 20 weeks? Compound that over time…

I get and appreciate the experiment and its purpose. Just pointing out a key metric for consideration as training is about more than just adding muscle.

I'm not sure and for sure it is definitely just an experiment...I enjoy training. Off the top of my head, here are just a few thoughts...but long-term, I don't really know or have an opinion.

• I lift pretty methodically so my joints usually feel good, but they have taken hundreds of thousands of less pounds of pressure so I think that's a net positive
• I am NOT for a sedentary lifestyle. What I did not mention is I would usually do very hard sprints with my daughter 1-2 times a week, I would "ruck" 1-2 miles a week, usually with just light weight like a 50 pound backback. I also would walk 8,000-10,000 steps a day.
• My blood work is fine, but I doubt that is a surprise, I mean I was taking 15mgs (avg) of test a day, 6 days a week so no surprise there.

 

[Flex500]

I can't really relate to this to much because my size and strength is a by product of my love for training

If someone wanted to be a millionaire they would work hard every day.

If someone just wanted to make enough money to get by and then not work thats there choice

This is the mindset I share with almost everything in life. It's a weird "experiment" because it comes off as an experiment on "how to short circuit the system so you don't have to train" but that's not really what I'm after.

What I'm really after is figuring out how much effective training and eating is actually happening that allows me to accrue muscle I will keep as long as I am not bedridden. That's really the heart of what I'm after and then from there, formulate the most effective ways to gain muscle.

Think about my deadlift. I arguably had a better day yesterday, after 21 weeks of no training while deadlifting close to 250k thousand less pounds that I would have otherwise. I'm trying to figure out what that means, and what implications that has to practical training/diet life.

 

[Flex500]

IMO I've just done this, off gear too = you lose muscle down to what you can hold naturally obviously, If you stayed on test you'd hold alot more and it'll stick no training required lol.

Its not so much that the training isn't required to maintain muscle built from training, its the hormones and food intake that maintain it - I always used to take long breaks whilst 'ON' and any amount of gear would keep alot of muscle on me and I'd never gain much fat whatsoever

I think overall I agree but I've been average 90-120mgs of testosterone a week for, gosh, several years now. I did stay on that, but it pretty much is "true" trt. I did continue to eat a lot of protein and a pretty much pure carnivore diet.

Lol this reminds me of a time I’ve done this as well. Was barely training for 3 months while taking 500 test. Once I went back to training consistently my strength and performance literally bounced back within a week. Whatever fat I gained was gone in less than a month. I bounced back very quickly recomp wise

On the other hand, I’ve gone off for equal amount of time and got significantly smaller and fatter, insulin resistant. It’s a much tougher hole to dig yourself out of. And looking back at my logs i actually trained more during this period than the former scenario.

Diet was very loose in both cases.

I really want to be cautious here to stay on a strict carnivore diet and keep it to try trt otherwise you are right it can distort things.

@Flex500 I respect this and if it made you happy and content at the end of the day, so be it, that's all that matters.

The bold above, as bbxtreme mentioned, hit the nail on the head.

I personally would just feel gross, mentally at least.

Kudos to you though.

I can totally dig this. As I mentioned to 3bills, it very much comes off like a "how can I not train" experiment. But it's more about analyzing what is the most effective way, frequency, volume, and intensity to get results, while minimizing wear and tear on the body and seeing how much muscle and strength (as a by product) do I have, that will stay without a hormone or training stimulus, and what diet will ensure this.

 

[Flex500]

For me the training is like therapy, I can't go without it or I will loose my mind! I got to lift even if it's just once a week

great point!

 

[Flex500]

I’ve done this a few times unintentionally. Army training courses or selections, deployments, Fire training/classes/academy

When I got out of a selection course in the Army after 12 weeks of zero lifting I was still repping 405 on squats

Same with the Fire Academy, everyone always says “you’re going to lose all your muscle there”. No difference in weight or strength

The amount of times I’ve heard the line of “you’ll lose all that muscle” is ridiculous lol. If it’s real muscle you’ll keep it.

My Dad was a bodybuilder, and he hasn’t worked out in over ten years now. Still jacked and still has 19inch arms with tons of vascularity (other body parts like chest and back have shrunk but he stays lean). Still gets stopped all the time by people asking about his workout and he loves telling people he doesn’t

So if you have to skip out on some workouts or take time off, it’s not a big deal, you won’t shrink. Especially on gear/TRT.
I personally need to be in the gym though mentally

I’ve left lots of gains on the table from working out too much and too hard versus the opposite

This is probably more of the spirit I was after with the experiment. It comes off as a "lazy mans" experiment...I LOVE TRAINING...but I wanted to see what is real and what isn't and if it would change my mind on how I train and what I eat.

 

[comedycentral]

This probably also shows that as you said social or mental health part of it to one side most people after a certain length of time training don’t really make any gains and just fluctuate slightly up and down.

 

[Flex500]

This probably also shows that as you said social or mental health part of it to one side most people after a certain length of time training don’t really make any gains and just fluctuate slightly up and down.

Precisely...how much of what we are doing is literally just for mental health (not a critical statement)? I don't know what all the conclusions are, but it's just made me think about training and diet a bit more. The balance of fun/mental health + effective training for real results (for a guy that won't take more than trt at this age) + longevity is what I'm interested in exploring.

 

[3BILLS]

Take your shirt off and post a pic.

Let's see what no training looks like

 

[Flex500]

Take your shirt off and post a pic.

Let's see what no training looks like

I should do it on a conference call I'm on right now and take a screenshot

I actually think I had a little more of a "belly" in the first one, without training and just on a carnivore diet I've eaten less. Interestingly, it does seem like I've loss some "mass" with my abs. My stomach does look not as good.

But let's be real I'm 15% bf in both so not lean by any stretch. I think that is maybe one of the reasons I don't look much different.

 

[3BILLS]

I should do it on a conference call I'm on right now and take a


But let's be real I'm 15% bf in both so not lean by any stretch. I think that is maybe one of the reasons I don't look much different.

Definitely. Share your results and keep doing your thing but this isn't as impressive as you may think.

 

[bbxtreme]

I'm not sure and for sure it is definitely just an experiment...I enjoy training. Off the top of my head, here are just a few thoughts...but long-term, I don't really know or have an opinion.

• I lift pretty methodically so my joints usually feel good, but they have taken hundreds of thousands of less pounds of pressure so I think that's a net positive
• I am NOT for a sedentary lifestyle. What I did not mention is I would usually do very hard sprints with my daughter 1-2 times a week, I would "ruck" 1-2 miles a week, usually with just light weight like a 50 pound backback. I also would walk 8,000-10,000 steps a day.
• My blood work is fine, but I doubt that is a surprise, I mean I was taking 15mgs (avg) of test a day, 6 days a week so no surprise there.

I figured there were steps and cardio in there so sounds like you still had cardiovascular health covered and reaped the benefits of having exercise in your life mentally and to some extent physically.

I think this experiment proves my point of all these guys “blasting and cruising” talking about how the lose all their “gains” and “muscle”. It’s hard to lose true “muscle” when your testosterone levels are in range and you continue to eat to support it optimally.

Same could be said about guys wondering how to maintain muscle during a surgical recovery phase. Diet is the most important factor.

All that aside there’s still no way I would last 20 weeks without training, even 20 days would be hard. I’m a different person when I don’t have the ability to train or go the gym and would argue most bodybuilders are the same.

 

[buck]

And you didn't do any physical activity at all that would challenge the muscles to any real degree in any way.
I know for myself when i have taken like a month off for vacation when i was still natural in my 30's with no real activity other then some swimming and walking and ate moderate amount of protein i dropped 10 pounds. Mostly from storing less glycogen i expect.

 

[Alzadosghost]

This is fascinating info and an awesome experiment. So total muscle acquired with AAS and PEDs can be maintained with optimal/top of range (but not enhanced/supraphysiological) Testosterone levels and "maintenance" levels of training? Is that correct..?

Not a chance. No one is going to keep all their muscle acquired on AAS without the doses that got you to that size. You might retain a small amount if you get on higher than regular trt. But if got up to 300 lbs on grams of gear for years on end. You won’t keep it without the grams. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong and I don’t want to hear im
Wrong from someone that has never came off completly for long periods of time.

 

[romo]

Ok that's it, this thread has got me motivated, I'm going to stop going to gym for awhile