The Golden Era

[lookslikesausage]

Yeah.. when he did chest he did only the middle range.. but very heavy but higher reps.. he was having shoukder issues even then.. but he did the middle range only but that was pretty common for even guys like dillet etc.. his favorite machine to use chest wise was the seated flex leverage.. its a hard machine weight wise but he coukd plate it out.

Recall Tom Prince also writing out his diet on Chad's site in the early 2000's. Was shocking for the time...not very high protein. 200g per day, maybe even less and pretty high carbs and he got in shape that way (rules probably change when you carry that much muscle). It wouldn't be a shock today but back then it definitely was as was not the trend, the low protein more so. I wonder if the protein was lower because he was already having kidney issues, just a guess. Also, tapering down the drugs as you got closer to show day in attempt to shed the water. These kinds of things were not ever in magazines and unless you knew a pro, not often spoken about during that time. LATS, I know you've heard this stuff, but many plebes like myself back then did not and it was eye opening. Tom was very open about a lot of things. Could he have been BSing, possibly, but I want to believe he wasn't.

 

[LATS]

Recall Tom Prince also writing out his diet on Chad's site in the early 2000's. Was shocking for the time...not very high protein. 200g per day, maybe even less and pretty high carbs and he got in shape that way (rules probably change when you carry that much muscle). It wouldn't be a shock today but back then it definitely was as was not the trend, the low protein more so. I wonder if the protein was lower because he was already having kidney issues, just a guess. Also, tapering down the drugs as you got closer to show day in attempt to shed the water. These kinds of things were not ever in magazines and unless you knew a pro, not often spoken about during that time. LATS, I know you've heard this stuff, but many plebes like myself back then did not and it was eye opening. Tom was very open about a lot of things. Could he have been BSing, possibly, but I want to believe he wasn't.

Oddly enough the protein issue was brought up a couple times.. my buddy dave ( the one i visited and roomed with gaspari and haney) was not a big proponent of very high protein.. he said Haney wasn't either.. Tom did say he had 30 to 40 grams on each meal.. he was doing 5 meals a day at the time..

dave was there at the gym but was doing legs but he did join the convo and said " I'm a carb guy.. I dont think I get over 150 to 200 protein a day.. sometimes less".. Tom seemed to agree with him... tom then didnt know about the kidney issues i dont believe.. his issues came from pounding the hell out of pain meds every day.. 12 to 15 tabs a day.. ( for a guy who was so intelligent about so many things how he thought that was sustainable for years and years is beyond me) .. I know many pounded the protein .. but dave and many others didn't.. they still seemed to get 150 or more a day but not into the 300 grams range..

I was a big met rx user back then.. and honestly if it wasn't for powders even these days I'd have a hard time getting in adequate protein. But back then I did two packets of met rx a day.. thats 60 grams..dave laughed at me all the time for taking that.. dave also mentioned that he had eaten with nasser numerous times and nasser didn't pound the protein either and nasser mentioned he was around 200 to 250 grams a day at most.. again he relied and alot of carbs..

Not to say protein isn't important for intense lifters.. we know it is.. but for many they relied on carbs and lots of them .. jay Cutler on his podcast mentioned he was a carb guy and didn't pound the protein near what I expected..

 

[mexbeast]

Wasn't Joe an inventor and owned a few patents? Another sad story was the end of Joe's life. Seemed like a very bright guy.

There are some old vids of Platz on a talk show and also some guest posing in Europe I believe from the mid 80's, might've been his comeback, but he looked a lot bigger and had some gyno going on. Now I know there are a million reasons why he could've gotten gyno but my point is he didn't look like a 200mg/week of Deca guy as he often claimed. I get the impression that he tried or tries to put out the responsible messaging for bodybuilders and drug use, for the sake of not harming themselves, but that he's also full of it sometimes.

I've seen a few pros in the gym. The only guy from the 80's though was John Hnatyschak. It was right before his last Master's O competition. Nothing remarkable to note; I think he was depleted, using very light weights and just trying to continue that process as he so close to his show. He was very impressive though. Not the biggest guy I've ever seen but one of the most complete and I recall his calves being ridiculous. Very few guys that I've seen ever had that level of completeness. A guy who trained w/Hnatyschak told me that he actually tore his abs in the 80's and needed surgery for it and was afraid his career would be derailed but that he was shocked when saw all the different procedures available to bodybuilders (this was in the 80's). He also said that back then if none of his friends were in the gym it was 50/50 if he'd actually train. It was more of a social thing for him (Hnatyschak). In other words, he wasn't one of these diehard gymrats. Guy did pretty well for himself as a bodybuilder for someone who worked as a full-time cop.

Another interesting case was Chris Cormier. Didn't look huge or thick at all in street clothes (could've possible been "off") but looked like he had such small joints and incredible shape. Of course, we know what he looked like on stage (incredible) but was interesting that he wasn't the thickest guy or even as big as I had imagined for being one of the best in the world. He looked like an insanely lean running back. Met Lee Priest in the gym and shook his hand and it was like grabbing a water balloon. The biggest and squishiest hand ever; never anything like it before or since. He wasn't getting ready for anything and he wasn't fat either like in those stupid Muscletech ads where he's eating fried chicken and donuts.

Did you ever shake Jay Cutler's hand right before he won the O circa 06? That's what he's hands felt like, i assumed it was the insulin!

 

[lookslikesausage]

Did you ever shake Jay Cutler's hand right before he won the O circa 06? That's what he's hands felt like, i assumed it was the insulin!

Only have shaken a few pros hands, never Jay's. Lee's hand was unlike any other hand. I didn't know a hand could be squishy. Insulin also came to mind later on when I thought about it but Lee always claimed he never touched it but so many of these guys BS when it comes to drug use.

 

[lookslikesausage]

Oddly enough the protein issue was brought up a couple times.. my buddy dave ( the one i visited and roomed with gaspari and haney) was not a big proponent of very high protein.. he said Haney wasn't either.. Tom did say he had 30 to 40 grams on each meal.. he was doing 5 meals a day at the time..

dave was there at the gym but was doing legs but he did join the convo and said " I'm a carb guy.. I dont think I get over 150 to 200 protein a day.. sometimes less".. Tom seemed to agree with him... tom then didnt know about the kidney issues i dont believe.. his issues came from pounding the hell out of pain meds every day.. 12 to 15 tabs a day.. ( for a guy who was so intelligent about so many things how he thought that was sustainable for years and years is beyond me) .. I know many pounded the protein .. but dave and many others didn't.. they still seemed to get 150 or more a day but not into the 300 grams range..

I was a big met rx user back then.. and honestly if it wasn't for powders even these days I'd have a hard time getting in adequate protein. But back then I did two packets of met rx a day.. thats 60 grams..dave laughed at me all the time for taking that.. dave also mentioned that he had eaten with nasser numerous times and nasser didn't pound the protein either and nasser mentioned he was around 200 to 250 grams a day at most.. again he relied and alot of carbs..

Not to say protein isn't important for intense lifters.. we know it is.. but for many they relied on carbs and lots of them .. jay Cutler on his podcast mentioned he was a carb guy and didn't pound the protein near what I expected..

The fact that carbs are protein sparing and that argument could be used to defend a lower (lower when compared to most bodybuilders' intakes) protein diet just wasn't something you heard big name pros talking about. It certainly went against the grain when Tom brought this up on Chad's board when he was asked about it. And the fact that any pro, let alone one the size of Tom (or Nasser for that matter), could take in half the amount of the coveted 300g a day number (as was the common practice and still popular to this day) and maintain that size was a big surprise. Again, this might be common knowledge now but back then, it wasn't or it definitely wasn't being openly practiced by top pros (or maybe it was but not spoken about).

 

[Mufasa123]

Oddly enough the protein issue was brought up a couple times.. my buddy dave ( the one i visited and roomed with gaspari and haney) was not a big proponent of very high protein.. he said Haney wasn't either.. Tom did say he had 30 to 40 grams on each meal.. he was doing 5 meals a day at the time..

dave was there at the gym but was doing legs but he did join the convo and said " I'm a carb guy.. I dont think I get over 150 to 200 protein a day.. sometimes less".. Tom seemed to agree with him... tom then didnt know about the kidney issues i dont believe.. his issues came from pounding the hell out of pain meds every day.. 12 to 15 tabs a day.. ( for a guy who was so intelligent about so many things how he thought that was sustainable for years and years is beyond me) .. I know many pounded the protein .. but dave and many others didn't.. they still seemed to get 150 or more a day but not into the 300 grams range..

I was a big met rx user back then.. and honestly if it wasn't for powders even these days I'd have a hard time getting in adequate protein. But back then I did two packets of met rx a day.. thats 60 grams..dave laughed at me all the time for taking that.. dave also mentioned that he had eaten with nasser numerous times and nasser didn't pound the protein either and nasser mentioned he was around 200 to 250 grams a day at most.. again he relied and alot of carbs..

Not to say protein isn't important for intense lifters.. we know it is.. but for many they relied on carbs and lots of them .. jay Cutler on his podcast mentioned he was a carb guy and didn't pound the protein near what I expected..

From memory, now aged admittedly, Tom's kidney issues were genetic and he didn't know about them or at least full extent until problems caused his retirement. And yeah NSAID heavy use wasn't wise - no idea why except that I know heavy training was painful and this was a work around. Then again most of what that level (before/then/now) wasn't wise either, he was specifically prone to the bad outcome with his genetic kidney issues I guess.

 

[specter]

Did you ever shake Jay Cutler's hand right before he won the O circa 06? That's what he's hands felt like, i assumed it was the insulin!

they called Cormier mushroom head because his head was so waterloged..

 

[specter]

From memory, now aged admittedly, Tom's kidney issues were genetic and he didn't know about them or at least full extent until problems caused his retirement. And yeah NSAID heavy use wasn't wise - no idea why except that I know heavy training was painful and this was a work around. Then again most of what that level (before/then/now) wasn't wise either, he was specifically prone to the bad outcome with his genetic kidney issues I guess.

Tom gave an interview some years before his death where he talked cycles and he told that he was poppin ibuprofen like it was candy, just to train he had to pop 3-4 200mg tablets, his body was so trashed from all the heavy training. i think he said daily was like 15-20 tablets at some points.

 

[LATS]

From memory, now aged admittedly, Tom's kidney issues were genetic and he didn't know about them or at least full extent until problems caused his retirement. And yeah NSAID heavy use wasn't wise - no idea why except that I know heavy training was painful and this was a work around. Then again most of what that level (before/then/now) wasn't wise either, he was specifically prone to the bad outcome with his genetic kidney issues I guess.

Yes genes played a part.. but.. even Tom's doctor said the excessive painkillers are what brought kidney shutdown.. 15 a day for years is enough to bring healthy kidneys to their knees..

 

[Mufasa123]

Yes genes played a part.. but.. even Tom's doctor said the excessive painkillers are what brought kidney shutdown.. 15 a day for years is enough to bring healthy kidneys to their knees..

Oh yeah. Wasn't arguing that at all. Was meant to be separated points.

1) genetic kidney issue wasn't known early to him

2) NSAID use at that level for years wasn't smart, and Tom was smart as you or someone mentioned inconguency. That said, risky/iffy stuff isn't uncommon at that level so he probably filed it under that and not knowing #1 figured he'd have more warning and time. I imagine diuretic use didn't help much. I seem to recall it was just before if not immediately preceding Night of Champions as that would have increased kidney stress

Also just thinking on best practices today. Another reason we get blood work is to identify and get ahead of any issues (PED related or not). Kind of obvious that wasn't happening here and might have made a huge difference. In fairness almost no one did back then and it's a lot more common on these boards than at top level competitors.

 

[stackdizzy]

Man this thread is one of the greatest ever! I could never get tired of reading about guys even from the mid n era.

 

[LATS]

Tom gave an interview some years before his death where he talked cycles and he told that he was poppin ibuprofen like it was candy, just to train he had to pop 3-4 200mg tablets, his body was so trashed from all the heavy training. i think he said daily was like 15-20 tablets at some points.

Yes.. he said 15 to 20 a day.. in the gym I owned we had a guy who loved basketball.. was a bit too short to really make a impact at the university level.. he decided he was going to try for going to Europe to play.. was able to get some interest.. had to take a physical.. now this guy always complained about his ankle.. but would wrap it and still practice for hours a day let alone weight train.. he failed the physical due to a kidney number that was not anywhere near favorable.. when they pressed him on it he admitted to about 15 ibuprofen a day for years for his ankle .. he stopped all use and after a while kidney function got better but the basketball dreams were dashed

 

[lookslikesausage]

Yes.. he said 15 to 20 a day.. in the gym I owned we had a guy who loved basketball.. was a bit too short to really make a impact at the university level.. he decided he was going to try for going to Europe to play.. was able to get some interest.. had to take a physical.. now this guy always complained about his ankle.. but would wrap it and still practice for hours a day let alone weight train.. he failed the physical due to a kidney number that was not anywhere near favorable.. when they pressed him on it he admitted to about 15 ibuprofen a day for years for his ankle .. he stopped all use and after a while kidney function got better but the basketball dreams were dashed

did you handpick every single piece of equipment in your gym? what was the most exotic? what was your favorite? what were the favorites of the members? last few years have been very interesting in terms of equipment. A lot of vintage pieces have been recreated or slightly modified. There was a lull for a good ten or fifteen years and it's off to the races again.

 

[LATS]

did you handpick every single piece of equipment in your gym? what was the most exotic? what was your favorite? what were the favorites of the members? last few years have been very interesting in terms of equipment. A lot of vintage pieces have been recreated or slightly modified. There was a lull for a good ten or fifteen years and it's off to the races again.

Gym equipment is my addiction.. when I owned my gyms I handpicked from nebula.. icarian.. flex.. bodymasters.. hammer.. and some custom pieces I had built by a friend that he called panther strength. Then I bought some euro pieces from gym80.. nytram.. and panatta.. that was back in the 90s and early 2000s..
That being said there is alot of copycat production these days that is exact designs from the 80s and 90s but with a few tweeks.. arsenal is nothing more than nebula but with some added features.. megamass is just copying flex and nautilus pieces and adding nice features to the existing pieces..
I recently took a chance for my home gym and order from a Chinese strength equipment company that has exact copies of many companies. . I got some panatta look alikes.. and honestly for a 1/3 of the price they are pretty amazing.. no difference biomechanics wise.. some less heavy gauge in some places but still strong enough.. overall pretty pleased with them..

 

[lookslikesausage]

Gym equipment is my addiction.. when I owned my gyms I handpicked from nebula.. icarian.. flex.. bodymasters.. hammer.. and some custom pieces I had built by a friend that he called panther strength. Then I bought some euro pieces from gym80.. nytram.. and panatta.. that was back in the 90s and early 2000s..
That being said there is alot of copycat production these days that is exact designs from the 80s and 90s but with a few tweeks.. arsenal is nothing more than nebula but with some added features.. megamass is just copying flex and nautilus pieces and adding nice features to the existing pieces..
I recently took a chance for my home gym and order from a Chinese strength equipment company that has exact copies of many companies. . I got some panatta look alikes.. and honestly for a 1/3 of the price they are pretty amazing.. no difference biomechanics wise.. some less heavy gauge in some places but still strong enough.. overall pretty pleased with them..

Nytram had a few nice looking pieces. They were out of England if I recall. Remember Polaris? I had their selectorized Seated Row and as simple as it was, it felt incredible. I'm really hoping to get on Arsenal's new Pullover machine and Prime's Hack Squat and Pendulum in this lifetime. Can you believe I had purchased a Paramount Pendulum in excellent condition for under $500 a few years before Covid and ended up trading it for a Flex Hack and gave the guy some cash? Worst trade ever made. I've seen people asking 10K for one and probably getting close to it. Decided to get rid of it because it was hurting my lower back and wasn't really thinking about flipping it. Very few Pendulums on the market until a few years ago. Amazing how social media has affected gyms and opened people's eyes to equipment and its value. I will shut up now as I don't want to derail the thread any further.

 

[LATS]

Nytram had a few nice looking pieces. They were out of England if I recall. Remember Polaris? I had their selectorized Seated Row and as simple as it was, it felt incredible. I'm really hoping to get on Arsenal's new Pullover machine and Prime's Hack Squat and Pendulum in this lifetime. Can you believe I had purchased a Paramount Pendulum in excellent condition for under $500 a few years before Covid and ended up trading it for a Flex Hack and gave the guy some cash? Worst trade ever made. I've seen people asking 10K for one and probably getting close to it. Decided to get rid of it because it was hurting my lower back and wasn't really thinking about flipping it. Very few Pendulums on the market until a few years ago. Amazing how social media has affected gyms and opened people's eyes to equipment and its value. I will shut up now as I don't want to derail the thread any further.

Oh I have made some questionable trades I regret.. I had a Polaris iron cross chest fly.. amazing piece.. got bored with it and traded it for a hammer lying 10 degree fly.. two weeks later I regretted that trade.. now those things go for 5 grand if you can find it

 

[specter]

Yes.. he said 15 to 20 a day.. in the gym I owned we had a guy who loved basketball.. was a bit too short to really make a impact at the university level.. he decided he was going to try for going to Europe to play.. was able to get some interest.. had to take a physical.. now this guy always complained about his ankle.. but would wrap it and still practice for hours a day let alone weight train.. he failed the physical due to a kidney number that was not anywhere near favorable.. when they pressed him on it he admitted to about 15 ibuprofen a day for years for his ankle .. he stopped all use and after a while kidney function got better but the basketball dreams were dashed

Yeah i thought and on top a boatload of roids and no real bloodpressure control.

 

[alfresco]

Yes.. he said 15 to 20 a day.. in the gym I owned we had a guy who loved basketball.. was a bit too short to really make a impact at the university level.. he decided he was going to try for going to Europe to play.. was able to get some interest.. had to take a physical.. now this guy always complained about his ankle.. but would wrap it and still practice for hours a day let alone weight train.. he failed the physical due to a kidney number that was not anywhere near favorable.. when they pressed him on it he admitted to about 15 ibuprofen a day for years for his ankle .. he stopped all use and after a while kidney function got better but the basketball dreams were dashed

So . . . it sounds like kidney function can improve (perhaps even return to normal) when you quit taking all that ibuprofen. I always thought damage done is damage done. Good to know.

 

[LATS]

So . . . it sounds like kidney function can improve (perhaps even return to normal) when you quit taking all that ibuprofen. I always thought damage done is damage done. Good to know.

Yeah his kidney function improved .. not great.. but enough to keep his dr happy at that time.. what it's like now I coukdnt say.. Haven't seen him in years

 

[LATS]

So . . . it sounds like kidney function can improve (perhaps even return to normal) when you quit taking all that ibuprofen. I always thought damage done is damage done. Good to know.

One of my best friends had a kidney GFR ar around 40 percent .. he was able to get it up to a little over 50.. so you can improve it .. how much is very individual etc