The great insulin debate!

[HawaiiMuscle]

From my understanding...

Insulin= storage hormone
Glucagon= catabolic hormone (insulin's nemesis), produced when blood sugar is low.

 

[The Wolf]

It could increase fat burning indirectly in terms of getting you into ketosis quicker,but the bottom line is - lypolysis is put on hold in the presence of insulin.

Is that a fact though, because Ive seen guys lose a lot when stacked with gh, does that cancel out the lypolysis being on hold.

 

[HawaiiMuscle]

Is that a fact though, because Ive seen guys lose a lot when stacked with gh, does that cancel out the lypolysis being on hold.

OK...now you throw in another variable, GH. GH has proven to burn fat and when mix with insulin will help with partitioning. Meaning more carbs/protein goes to muscles, not fat.

Bottom line...GH is the fat burner, not insulin.

 

[buselmo]

The reason Im saying that is becuase one of the dudes Im arguing with is a doctor and he of course has more credibility over me so my training partner sides with him.

my friend has a little brother how is a type 1 diabetic... he uses a shitload of insulin all day long... this dude is like 5', 80 lbs soaking wet... the doctor told him that the hardest thing he'll ever achieve is gaining weight on insulin... The dude is an EXTREME ectomorph, and diabetic... now, take someone who is an endormorph, if he has diabetese and he's on slin, the dude will just get fatter and fatter and fatter... the main factors are bodytype and diet. I have used slin A LOT... and it's a hard as hell for me to lose fat on slin. and if i use it without GH, i'll gain mostly fat, even if my diet is perfect.

And saying insulin burns fat indirectly is just like saying sleep burns fat indirectly. if you don't sleep, you won't recover and you'll overtrain... plus you won't have enough energy to train or function. hence, you won't burn fat....... in the end, it has nothing to do with it (well, it has something to do with it, but you get what i'm saying).

 

[buselmo]

I refuse to buy into the "genetics" is everything statement.

The power of the mind, damn hard work, patience, self belief and finding a training/diet system that works for you is more important in the long run.

I think in any sport the best of the best will have some degree of genetic ability but if theyu dont train hard and smart, they wont have any longevity and wont reach the pinnacle of that sport.

I'm not saying that genetics are the be all and end all of the sport. I'm just saying that they help, especially if you have an IQ level of a toddler. I've been training a dude for 3 months now... the guy has been training for 9 years. he doesn't know shit about shit. he's been training with the usual "arnold" schedule (6 days per weeks, 2 billion sets per muscle, light weights but concentrate on squeezing and shit like that)... his diet was exactly this:
meal 1
egg sandwich (2 whole eggs, and 2 slices white bread with cheese), juice

Meal 2
Kabsa (which is kinda like jumbalaya if you've ever eaten that in louisiana), basically rice cooked with oil, and chicken drowned in oil and tomato paste, a can of soda

Workout drink
redbull

Meal 3
1 scoop protein with milk

that's it.... the dude is 5'6 and WAS 175 lbs... lean and huge! he looked more like 200 lbs... muscles popped like crazy!... 6 weeks, i put him on a 2200 cal diet with 1/4 of the amount of training... the guy gained 17 lbs in those 6 weeks... dry lbs!! i was gonna say "fuck it, i quit!" ... his previous cycles were, in his own words:
some times a take a little of that egyptian stuff... i don't know what it's called (sustanon)
that stuff that comes in the purple bottle (winstrol)
some of that spanish stuff that comes in a brown bottle (masteron)

please tell me that's not genetics... the guy is 7% fat... he doesn't even know how to diet...

but i know what you mean. if a guy who doesn't have the genetics, but has the knowledge and determination... he will surpass the "gifted" dude sooner or later.

still, it would be nice having a 28 inch waist and 17 inch arms without knowing what the fuck you're doing

 

[KillerStack]

my friend has a little brother how is a type 1 diabetic... he uses a shitload of insulin all day long... this dude is like 5', 80 lbs soaking wet... the doctor told him that the hardest thing he'll ever achieve is gaining weight on insulin... The dude is an EXTREME ectomorph, and diabetic... now, take someone who is an endormorph, if he has diabetese and he's on slin, the dude will just get fatter and fatter and fatter... the main factors are bodytype and diet. I have used slin A LOT... and it's a hard as hell for me to lose fat on slin. and if i use it without GH, i'll gain mostly fat, even if my diet is perfect.

I don't know if it's due to being of ectomorph/endomorph body type as such, but more to do with insulin sensitivity. My guess, based on limited understanding, is that the diabetic person you are talking about is extremely insulin resistant which is the reason he doesn't gain weight despite high insulin dosages (poor glucose uptake = drastic weight loss, as is seen if a diabetic doesn't take his insulin). Taking GH also causes insulin resistance so you can see why GH would prevent weight/fat gain when on insulin via the same mechanism. Of course, weight training causes an increase in insulin sensitivity in muscle muscle tissue, but not fat tissue, so taking insulin post training would partition the carbs/proteins to muscle preferentially.

 

[bluto]

I totally agree

I'm not saying that genetics are the be all and end all of the sport. I'm just saying that they help, especially if you have an IQ level of a toddler. I've been training a dude for 3 months now... the guy has been training for 9 years. he doesn't know shit about shit. he's been training with the usual "arnold" schedule (6 days per weeks, 2 billion sets per muscle, light weights but concentrate on squeezing and shit like that)... his diet was exactly this:
meal 1
egg sandwich (2 whole eggs, and 2 slices white bread with cheese), juice

Meal 2
Kabsa (which is kinda like jumbalaya if you've ever eaten that in louisiana), basically rice cooked with oil, and chicken drowned in oil and tomato paste, a can of soda

Workout drink
redbull

Meal 3
1 scoop protein with milk

that's it.... the dude is 5'6 and WAS 175 lbs... lean and huge! he looked more like 200 lbs... muscles popped like crazy!... 6 weeks, i put him on a 2200 cal diet with 1/4 of the amount of training... the guy gained 17 lbs in those 6 weeks... dry lbs!! i was gonna say "fuck it, i quit!" ... his previous cycles were, in his own words:
some times a take a little of that egyptian stuff... i don't know what it's called (sustanon)
that stuff that comes in the purple bottle (winstrol)
some of that spanish stuff that comes in a brown bottle (masteron)

please tell me that's not genetics... the guy is 7% fat... he doesn't even know how to diet...

but i know what you mean. if a guy who doesn't have the genetics, but has the knowledge and determination... he will surpass the "gifted" dude sooner or later.

still, it would be nice having a 28 inch waist and 17 inch arms without knowing what the fuck you're doing

I know what you mean,

Over here there are polynesians who just look at weights and they explode. One of my training partners is 200% natural and can bench 500pnds, squat and deadlift 600pnd+ and he hardly ever trains or eats.

I just meant that everybody has there positives and negatives but at the end of the day its mental toughness that shines through. I think that is why alot of top athletes are religous? They have that faith in themselves that pushes them through the bad times to keep getting up and trying again.