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The PCT to end all!!???

dragonfire101 said:
:D OK, for the PCT to end all!


HCG 250-500iu throughout cycle 2 consecutive days a week up to 2 weeks past last injection

Why 2 consecutive days. If one is shooting test 2x a week, wouldn't 1 day before each injection be a better solution? It would still be 2x a week, but would better be matched with each injection.
 
Why 2 consecutive days. If one is shooting test 2x a week, wouldn't 1 day before each injection be a better solution? It would still be 2x a week, but would better be matched with each injection.

From my understanding because such a low dose was being used 1 day may not stimulate the HPTA fully so 2 consecutive days would be good at a low dose instead of trying for a high dose 1 day causing Leydig cell desentization. Check out the article below on an updated protocol.


AN UPDATE TO THE CRISLER HCG PROTOCOL

By John Crisler, DO



In my paper “My Current Best Thoughts on How to Administer TRT for Men”, published in A4M’s 2004/5 Anti-Aging Clinical Protocols, I introduced a new protocol where small doses of Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin (HCG) are regularly added to traditional TRT (either weekly IM testosterone cypionate or daily cream/gel). The reasons and benefits of this protocol are as follows, along with a new improvement I wish to share:

Any physician who administers TRT will, within the first few months of doing so, field complaints from their patients because they are now experiencing troubling testicular atrophy. Irrespective of the numerous and abundant benefits of TRT, men never enjoy seeing their genitals shrinking! Testicular atrophy occurs because the depressed LH level, secondary to the HPTA suppression TRT induces, no longer supports them. It is well known that HCG—a Luteinizing Hormone (LH) analog—will effectively, and dramatically, restore the testicles to previous form and function. It accomplishes this due to shared moiety between the alpha subunits of both hormones.

So, that satisfies an aesthetic consideration which should not be ignored. Now let’s delve into the pharmacodynamics of the TRT medications. For those employing injectable
testosterone cypionate, the cypionate ester provides a 5-8 day half-life, depending upon the specific metabolism, activity level, and overall health of the patient. It is now well-established that appropriate TRT using IM injections must be dosed at weekly intervals, in order to avoid seating the patient on a hormonal, and emotional, roller coaster. Adding in some HCG toward the end of the weekly “cycle” compensates for the drop in serum androgen levels by the half-life of the cypionate ester. Certainly the body thrives on regularity, and supplementing the TRT with endogenous testosterone production at just the right time—without inappropriately raising androgen OR estrogen (more on that later)—approximates the excellent performance stability of transdermal testosterone delivery systems for those who, for whatever reason or reasons, prefer test cyp.

But there’s another metabolic reason to employ this protocol. The P450 Side Chain Cleavage enzyme, which converts CHOL into pregnenolone at the initiation of all three metabolic pathways CHOL serves as precursor (the sex hormones, glucocorticoids and mineralcorticoids), is actively stimulated, or depressed, by LH concentrations. It is intuitively consistent that during conditions of lowered testosterone levels, commensurate increases in LH production would serve to stimulate this conversion from CHOL into these pathways, thereby feeding more raw material for increased hormone production. And vice versa. Thus the addition of HCG (which also stimulates the P450scc enzyme) helps restore a more natural balance of the hormones within this pathway in patients who are entirely, or even partially, HPTA-suppressed.

It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism. 250IU QD is an effective, and safe, dose. After all, we are merely replacing that which is lost to inhibition.

In my previous report I recommended 250IU of HCG twice per week for all TRT patients, taken the day of, along with the day before, the weekly test cyp injection. After looking at countless lab printouts, listening to subjective reports from patients, and learning more about HCG, I am now shifting that regimen forward one day. In other words, my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot. All administer their HCG subcutaneously, and dosage may be adjusted as necessary (I have yet to see more than 350IU per dose required).

I made this change after realizing that the previous HCG protocol was boosting serum testosterone levels too much, as the test cyp serum concentrations rise, approaching its peak at roughly the 72 hour mark. The original goal of supporting serum androgen levels with HCG had overshot its mark.

Those TRT patients who prefer a transdermal testosterone, or even testosterone pellets (although I am not in favor of same), take their HCG every third day. They needn’t concern themselves with diminishing serum androgen levels from their testosterone delivery system. These patients will, of course, notice an increase in serum androgen levels above baseline.

While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.
 
dragonfire101 said:
From my understanding because such a low dose was being used 1 day may not stimulate the HPTA fully so 2 consecutive days would be good at a low dose instead of trying for a high dose 1 day causing Leydig cell desentization. Check out the article below on an updated protocol.

Yes, I've read the same article. I think it is not necessary to shoot it 2 consecutive days. I think the reason he recommends it like that is due to weekly shoots of test and the fact that the day before and the day of the next test injection test levels from previous injection are the lowest - you don't want to overshoot test levels. But, if someone were to shoot test 2x wk, it would follow that the lowest levels would be the same, but now you have two test injections to cover. Since I will be doing 2x wk test enan injections, I would shoot HCG 1 day before test injection.
 
Yes, I've read the same article. I think it is not necessary to shoot it 2 consecutive days.

The 2 consecutive days was from the old HCG Protocol written. I posted the new one which indicated two days before and day after for comparison.


If I was using something like Test and Deca/EQ I would shoot it every third day and then I can do the HCG like this.




Mon.
Tue. TEST/DECA
Wed. HCG
Thurs.
Fri.
Sat. TEST/DECA
Sun. HCG
Mon.
Tue.
Wed. TEST/DECA
Thurs. HCG
Fri.
Sat.
Sun. TEST/DECA

or if more is needed add HCG 2 consecutive days after each TEST/DECA inj or 1 the day before and 1 the day after each TEST/DECA inj.
 
Last edited:
Why would you add HCG one day after the test shot as opposed to before. Even Swale advocates using before the next shot as it 'compensates for the drop in serum androgen levels'. When you shoot it a day after, serum androgen would be much higher and that is the point I was trying to make.

I don't know, maybe it does not matter.

"Adding in some HCG toward the end of the weekly “cycle” compensates for the drop in serum androgen levels by the half-life of the cypionate ester. "
 
Everybody says something else, weather its drugs,dieting, training. Every expert has their own way. As the saying go's, "more than one way to skin a cat".
 
my test cyp TRT patients now take their HCG at 250IU two days before, as well as the day immediately previous to, their IM shot

He recommends 2 days before and the day after a Test inj. I was just showing different example of what someone may do that works for them on the way they use their gear. If you read what I wrote I stated someone could add another inj the day before or two days before if they felt it was needed and if thay did the two days before it would actually be 2 consecutive days in a row after each inj in the sample i gave. Keep in mind these are recommendations for HRT 200MG test a week. If you read Swale article he does state he is not against 250iu ed also if needed.

If you followed the HCG protocol Swale posted and one was injecting Test every 3 days you woud be using the HCG on 2 consecutive days which brings you back to your original question why would I be using HCG 2 consecutive days thus the reason why. If you follow his recommendations to the T, someones HCG protocol may look different depending on how they Inj there Test/Gear.

Mon.
Tue. TEST/DECA
Wed. HCG
Thurs. HCG
Fri.
Sat. TEST/DECA
Sun. HCG
Mon.HCG
Tue.
Wed. TEST/DECA
Thurs. HCG
Fri. HCG
Sat.
Sun. TEST/DECA
 
Last edited:

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