The preworkout thread

[Bleed]

I took 1.5 scoops of gamer the last time. What's in the jug is definitely effective, the mental state just doesnt last long at all. I suspect that if there were a bit more caffeine it would last a bit longer (i know im stating the obvious). I intend on trying some gamer with a bit more caffeine and 50mg of dmaa. I'm not calling the product bad or anything. It's clearly marketed as a nootropic and in that light it is what it's supposed to be and I am comparing it to a preworkout so its not a like to like comparison. I would love to see the nootropics with more stim but since thats not what this is I can just modify it. Homebrew craft preworkout.

It doesnt compare to excelsior at all. I havent taken anything that does that beside the original jack3d with geranium stem. Right now, Excelsior with the DMAA is an unbeatable combination. I plan on trying some of elvias top picks at some point. I have shit luck picking these things out myself and he was on point with excelsior. Dude clearly has passion for this stuff.

Ghost gamer seems to have a good profile. Do you take just 1 scoop? How does it compared to excelsior?

 

[warlock]

I took 1.5 scoops of gamer the last time. What's in the jug is definitely effective, the mental state just doesnt last long at all. I suspect that if there were a bit more caffeine it would last a bit longer (i know im stating the obvious). I intend on trying some gamer with a bit more caffeine and 50mg of dmaa. I'm not calling the product bad or anything. It's clearly marketed as a nootropic and in that light it is what it's supposed to be and I am comparing it to a preworkout so its not a like to like comparison. I would love to see the nootropics with more stim but since thats not what this is I can just modify it. Homebrew craft preworkout.

It doesnt compare to excelsior at all. I havent taken anything that does that beside the original jack3d with geranium stem. Right now, Excelsior with the DMAA is an unbeatable combination. I plan on trying some of elvias top picks at some point. I have shit luck picking these things out myself and he was on point with excelsior. Dude clearly has passion for this stuff.

Thanks brother for sharing your experience with this product. It seems that it could work well, and you can add more stimulants if need be to get what you're looking for.

Is 50mg dmma a good standard dose for it?

 

[Bleed]

My suggestion would be to take it 3 days a week and not after 3 oclock if you can help it. You can mix up your choice of stims so as not to aggravate any sort of anxiety or insomnia. Timing is key more than anything with stimulants.

Last few jugs I bought were 49.99. Thats what they were last I checked. I need to re-up so hopefully there's no supply issue. I know they were marked up overseas for a minute. Is that still the case?

Thanks for the reply, bud. I lift five days a week and, knowing me, I'm going to use it all five days. I'm prone to anxiety, definitely, and would rather skip it if it may aggravate it as mine can become overwhelming and ruin my quality of life. Byebye, sleep...

Is it still not too expensive stateside?

 

[Bleed]

From my research on DMAA, it seems most people get the best results between 30 - 50 mg. Mike Arnold sells 75mg per ml (30 mls total).

I would start at 40mg and titrate to a point that is good for you. Some people love DMAA and some people think it's basically poison from what I have read in some places. There may be good reasoning to this and I'm not dismissing it outright, I just havent noticed any deleterious effects. Ive checked my BP and RHR on it and everything looks good.

Thanks brother for sharing your experience with this product. It seems that it could work well, and you can add more stimulants if need be to get what you're looking for.

Is 50mg dmma a good standard dose for it?

 

[Elvia1023]

Thanks for all your work once again.

With Excelsior, you say there are some negatives. Would anxiety be one of them? How does it effect your productivity through the day?

As you know I suffer from anxiety and weirdly 10 years ago (before I suffered from any major anxiety) when I would use stimulants I would sometimes get more anxious so they would bring it out. These days stimulants tend to make me feel better but there are a few products that have made me feel off. Obviously if you are going through any anxiety episode (perhaps social) and you take a strong stimulant it may make things worse. I recall taking a preworkout (was probably on tren as well) and getting on a busy tram/bus to get to the gym and I started panicking. Although excelsior has never made me feel anxious and I often feel great. It has made me feel overwhelmed "too wired" when taking a higher dose but when I was training I was fine.

Productivity through the day It increases it by 200%+!! I would get home from the gym and cook and clean I would answer all my emails I would post post in 30 different threads. I know people who use it in the morning to be more productive through the day and it will last all day long. That's why when Bleed posts about being careful with taking it too late he is not joking. If I take it in the evening I am guaranteed to be wide awake until at least 6am. I used to have some crazy sleeping patterns so it suited me but for people who go to bed around midnight I wouldn't dose it after 5pm. Now everyone metabolizes stimulants differently so some may be fine with 5 hours and others may need 10 hours. It's definitely hard and long hitting so for productivity if you get the dose right you are onto a winner. I have dosed it daily before and it's effectiveness does go down so I would always recommend taking it eod. If taking it for the gym then work you could get away with 1 scoop. For just work you could even start at 0.5 scoops and over time go to 0.6, 0.7 then have a break and back to 0.5 and see how that goes. I would recommend breaks no matter how you dose it though as it's very strong and it will significantly impact your adrenal system especially when dosed daily.

Your work is extremely appreciated Elvia, this thread is an invaluable resource!

Thanks matey. Obviously I could rate something 9/10 and someone hates it or visa versa. We are all very different but I am happy if this thread can at least help some guys choose a new preworkout which later benefits their training.

 

[Elvia1023]

My suggestion would be to take it 3 days a week and not after 3 oclock if you can help it. You can mix up your choice of stims so as not to aggravate any sort of anxiety or insomnia. Timing is key more than anything with stimulants.

Last few jugs I bought were 49.99. Thats what they were last I checked. I need to re-up so hopefully there's no supply issue. I know they were marked up overseas for a minute. Is that still the case?

Just read this and I completely agree. Timing is vital and for many 3pm is a sensible cut off especially if they go to bed earlier. Some may even need to dose it earlier if they go to bed around 10-11pm. The total dose is also a major factor and many can get away with 1/2 scoop and even that feels strong to them. For US guy on the fence (for awhile) I say just try it. It's different for us over here because the price is ridiculous where I usually get it. It's £72 (higher on ebay) so that's $96 per tub. You guy complaining about $45 are crazy to me It's worth noting it's also 30 servings so more than the typical 20-25 these days. It still isn't cheap but 1 scoop is more than enough for most people so per serving it's not bad at all. For guys getting around 60 servings (1/2 scoop) it's actually very good value for money. On some products I pay around $45 and get about 15-20 servings and with Excelsior I get around 24 (30/1.25).

 

[Bleed]

50 bucks a tub for preworkout is completely reasonable to me. The issue is a lot of guys here were struggling before the pandemic and now it's just killing them. They see 50 bucks for a pwo and someone say "it's actually very good value for money" when they can go to walmart and buy ~14 pounds of ground beef for the same price as one tub of excelsior plus shipping. I think that's the point they're trying to make when they talk about cost but I never see them put it in these terms.

Then again, I have no idea what a pound of corn fed beef costs in the UK. So maybe you can buy 25 pounds of beef for the cost of one unit of excelsior.

As far as pwo goes, excelsior is a value for what you pay. At $96 bucks per jug, I'd really have to think about my frequency of usage. In terms, if you got a good source and buy bulk, thats a kit and half of gh.

It's all relative. I hear people say pwo is a waste because it wont contribute directly to muscle growth but I think that's a bit shortsighted.

Just read this and I completely agree. Timing is vital and for many 3pm is a sensible cut off especially if they go to bed earlier. Some may even need to dose it earlier if they go to bed around 10-11pm. The total dose is also a major factor and many can get away with 1/2 scoop and even that feels strong to them. For US guy on the fence (for awhile) I say just try it. It's different for us over here because the price is ridiculous where I usually get it. It's £72 (higher on ebay) so that's $96 per tub. You guy complaining about $45 are crazy to me It's worth noting it's also 30 servings so more than the typical 20-25 these days. It still isn't cheap but 1 scoop is more than enough for most people so per serving it's not bad at all. For guys getting around 60 servings (1/2 scoop) it's actually very good value for money. On some products I pay around $45 and get about 15-20 servings and with Excelsior I get around 24 (30/1.25).

 

[Elvia1023]

[/QUOTE]

50 bucks a tub for preworkout is completely reasonable to me. The issue is a lot of guys here were struggling before the pandemic and now it's just killing them. They see 50 bucks for a pwo and someone say "it's actually very good value for money" when they can go to walmart and buy ~14 pounds of ground beef for the same price as one tub of excelsior plus shipping. I think that's the point they're trying to make when they talk about cost but I never see them put it in these terms.

Then again, I have no idea what a pound of corn fed beef costs in the UK. So maybe you can buy 25 pounds of beef for the cost of one unit of excelsior.

As far as pwo goes, excelsior is a value for what you pay. At $96 bucks per jug, I'd really have to think about my frequency of usage. In terms, if you got a good source and buy bulk, thats a kit and half of gh.

It's all relative. I hear people say pwo is a waste because it wont contribute directly to muscle growth but I think that's a bit shortsighted.

Everyone also has very different budgets when it comes to supplements as well. I would never usually state to buy something because some guys may not be able to afford supplements and could have lost their jobs but my post was more in general plus I would hear the same long before covid. Some guys are on the fence for years and go on about it so I think just buy it then and see for yourself. There are a few guys who want to use it they just don't want to pay $45 but would pay $30 for a basically shit one or pay $2 for an energy drink so in my eyes for 30 servings at US prices it's not bad at all (it's actually great value for me). If it were 20 servings it would be $30 so guys should think of it that way. $45 for 30 servings and it's strength is not an expensive preworkout. Now UK prices are very different and whilst it is still worth it I think paying out $96 for a preworkout just seems crazy to me but I will buy it again before it probably disappears forever.

 

[Hansen214]

Hey guys I’m new to the forum. I thought I’d join after reading the Excelsior stuff on this thread.

I’ll just get straight to it...has anyone had problems with Excelsior addiction?

I found Excelsior about a year ago and pretty much immediately got addicted. I’ve tried almost every hyped up pre over the past 10 years and I’d say my first scoop of Excelsior blew everything else out of the water (besides maybe the OG Craze). The first 2 tubs I ordered were expiration dates 09/21 and 10/22. The euphoria was always consistent- lasted about an hour or so. The dry mouth on the stuff was ridiculous. And I’d crash almost every time after an hour or so with anxiety and some depression. Despite the negatives, I started taking it daily for about 2-3 months. I even had some other solid pre’s on hand like Dark Energy and Dark Labs Crack, but Excelsior was just so much better it was hard for me to not take it every day.

Anyway, after about 2-3 months of consuming nearly daily and 4-5 tubs later, I had a kind of “come to Jesus” moment where I realized I was addicted to it and didn’t want to be addicted to a pre workout. Plus the added negative sides of anxiety and depression just didn’t seem worth it. So on a whim one night, I threw out all my remaining tubs. The next morning I immediately regretted it and over the next few days was seriously depressed. It was probably a combo of withdrawal and also just feeling crappy that I threw out like $200 worth of pre workout. So a few days later, I bought another tub of Excelsior and immediately felt happier. My drug was on the way. When I got the tub, I noticed the powder looked different (more pink instead of red) and even tasted a little bit more bitter. The effected were also blunted. Less euphoria but also less of a crash. As I kept taking the tub, the effects diminished to the point where I felt literally nothing on it. I even took a 3 week break went back to it and still felt nothing. Well this sucked but in a way it was good because I broke my addiction and pretty much moved on from Excelsior.

Over the next few months (March-October) I tried a bunch of other pre’s. I bought some Hydrazine which was the closest thing to Exceslior. It’s definitely a much milder version of Excelsior. Some euphoria, good focus, and tiny crash. It’s pretty clean and smooth. But being in the States, the price is pretty ridiculous especially if you’re taking 2 pills a day. Honestly I don’t feel a ton of difference between Hydrazine and Thermal Spark. Hydrazine is probably a little smoother feeling while Thermal Spark is more stimmy/dirty if that makes sense.

Moving on haha, about month ago, I started reading some YouTube comments about the new batch of Excelsior 08/23. And it sounded like it might be back to it’s old self. So I bought another tub with low expectations after my experience with the 02/23 batch. I got my tub in the mail, took one scoop, and here I am a month later and almost done with the whole tub.

Is the 08/23 batch as good as the 09/21 and 10/22? I’m not sure. But it’s pretty damn good. I have noticed with this new tub that if I go over 1 scoop the crash is just too much to handle and the stimulation is overboard. And the dry mouth on this is even worse than before. Interestingly, on the old tubs it said the serving size was 1-2 scoops. On this tub the serving size just says 1 scoop. I honestly haven’t gone over 1 scoop this whole tub and really haven’t a felt the need to. Sometimes even 1/2 scoop to 3/4 of a scoop does the trick. The problem is now I’m addicted again. I told myself I would only take it twice a week a rotate with a few other pre’s I have. However, over the past 2-3 weeks I’ve literally taken Excelsior every day with a sprinkle of Hydrazine here and there.

Do you guys have any advice? I know I need to take a stim break but mentally and maybe even physically, that sounds like torture. I would love to eventually wean myself off of pre workouts altogether because I know my adrenals need a break. But I seriously feel like I can’t even function without pre workout, specifically Excelsior right now. Ive got a pretty small stack of pre’s right now - Excelsior, Hydrazine, Prephase KO, and Juggernaut Wild. Is rotating through these each day the best way to go to avoid addiction and tolerance?

I know I sound like a complete bitch but this Excelsior stuff is no joke. It’s my drug of choice right now and I want to find out how to take it responsibly.

 

[g.r.o.w.t.h.]

Here is some advice: stop being a crack head junkie. Use the excelsior 1-2 times a week or better yet, don’t use it at all. You don’t need a high stim pre workout to train hard. Mind over matter on this one. Use a pump product if you feel you need something. I use excelsior once a week to train legs. All other days I use either just a pump product or something with a mild stim effect.

Hey guys I’m new to the forum. I thought I’d join after reading the Excelsior stuff on this thread.

I’ll just get straight to it...has anyone had problems with Excelsior addiction?

I found Excelsior about a year ago and pretty much immediately got addicted. I’ve tried almost every hyped up pre over the past 10 years and I’d say my first scoop of Excelsior blew everything else out of the water (besides maybe the OG Craze). The first 2 tubs I ordered were expiration dates 09/21 and 10/22. The euphoria was always consistent- lasted about an hour or so. The dry mouth on the stuff was ridiculous. And I’d crash almost every time after an hour or so with anxiety and some depression. Despite the negatives, I started taking it daily for about 2-3 months. I even had some other solid pre’s on hand like Dark Energy and Dark Labs Crack, but Excelsior was just so much better it was hard for me to not take it every day.

Anyway, after about 2-3 months of consuming nearly daily and 4-5 tubs later, I had a kind of “come to Jesus” moment where I realized I was addicted to it and didn’t want to be addicted to a pre workout. Plus the added negative sides of anxiety and depression just didn’t seem worth it. So on a whim one night, I threw out all my remaining tubs. The next morning I immediately regretted it and over the next few days was seriously depressed. It was probably a combo of withdrawal and also just feeling crappy that I threw out like $200 worth of pre workout. So a few days later, I bought another tub of Excelsior and immediately felt happier. My drug was on the way. When I got the tub, I noticed the powder looked different (more pink instead of red) and even tasted a little bit more bitter. The effected were also blunted. Less euphoria but also less of a crash. As I kept taking the tub, the effects diminished to the point where I felt literally nothing on it. I even took a 3 week break went back to it and still felt nothing. Well this sucked but in a way it was good because I broke my addiction and pretty much moved on from Excelsior.

Over the next few months (March-October) I tried a bunch of other pre’s. I bought some Hydrazine which was the closest thing to Exceslior. It’s definitely a much milder version of Excelsior. Some euphoria, good focus, and tiny crash. It’s pretty clean and smooth. But being in the States, the price is pretty ridiculous especially if you’re taking 2 pills a day. Honestly I don’t feel a ton of difference between Hydrazine and Thermal Spark. Hydrazine is probably a little smoother feeling while Thermal Spark is more stimmy/dirty if that makes sense.

Moving on haha, about month ago, I started reading some YouTube comments about the new batch of Excelsior 08/23. And it sounded like it might be back to it’s old self. So I bought another tub with low expectations after my experience with the 02/23 batch. I got my tub in the mail, took one scoop, and here I am a month later and almost done with the whole tub.

Is the 08/23 batch as good as the 09/21 and 10/22? I’m not sure. But it’s pretty damn good. I have noticed with this new tub that if I go over 1 scoop the crash is just too much to handle and the stimulation is overboard. And the dry mouth on this is even worse than before. Interestingly, on the old tubs it said the serving size was 1-2 scoops. On this tub the serving size just says 1 scoop. I honestly haven’t gone over 1 scoop this whole tub and really haven’t a felt the need to. Sometimes even 1/2 scoop to 3/4 of a scoop does the trick. The problem is now I’m addicted again. I told myself I would only take it twice a week a rotate with a few other pre’s I have. However, over the past 2-3 weeks I’ve literally taken Excelsior every day with a sprinkle of Hydrazine here and there.

Do you guys have any advice? I know I need to take a stim break but mentally and maybe even physically, that sounds like torture. I would love to eventually wean myself off of pre workouts altogether because I know my adrenals need a break. But I seriously feel like I can’t even function without pre workout, specifically Excelsior right now. Ive got a pretty small stack of pre’s right now - Excelsior, Hydrazine, Prephase KO, and Juggernaut Wild. Is rotating through these each day the best way to go to avoid addiction and tolerance?

I know I sound like a complete bitch but this Excelsior stuff is no joke. It’s my drug of choice right now and I want to find out how to take it responsibly.

 

[T-800]

Hi hansen! Welcome!
I read your story during breakfast like i read the newspaper.
I found it entertaining and informing
I have no exp with Exc yet. Saving the best for last i guess. Am on the likes of crack, jack3d, wunderwaffe, angel dust, etc. All pretty decent dmaa stuff.
What i do is just rotate every month.
Non stims / stims pwo.
Every 1st week of the stim month i use a dmaa free pwo (yeah buddy, stimumax, hydraulic) the rest of the month dmaa stuff.
Every time i take it its like the first time.
Very good value for money this way imho.

 

[Wildcat37]

Hansen..... good discussion points. I only allow myself Exc twice a week. Usually on leg day and chest/delt day. Not sure if Kratom is legal where you are; but I've found the white strain to be energetic and euphoric for use a couple times a week. I take 5G 30m before my workout and it gives a totally different motivational mindset than the "amped up" feeling I get with Exc.

 

[Bleed]

How old are you?

The current batches I have are 2/23. I did notice they changed a bit from the old one. The color being the most obvious difference. They are a little less potent. But I wouldn't say there are not effective. I think thats probably your tolerance building up to what it is now. This stuff still works great for me. So much so I am going to get a few new tubs in case they become hard to come by or one of the other guys on here wants one at some point.

This stuff isnt "addictive" in the physical sense. You are experiencing what people who habitually smoke weed and stop suddenly experience. The advice is the same for anyone else who has an addiction whether it's drinking or anything else: stay away from it. It's supposed to be a workout aid, not a problem to deal with.

I use it for the same reason you do, because it's awesome. If you like stims, you will be happy. I admit taking it for the mental effects and as an adult I should be able to get that especially if it's productive and I know what I am getting into. But I dont need to take it everyday and if they stop making this shit I'll just call elvia who seems to be the guy who hears about this stuff first. I'll move on to the next thing or hit make arnold up for some liquid Kigelia Africana which is supposedly what gives this stuff it's kick.

Either use it 2 -3 days a week when you train or dont use it because you can see you have an issue with it. Addicts dont register "responsible" usage so that may be out of the question for you since you have an addictive personality.

To be clear this isnt a knock on you. Ive done my share of dumb shit (drugs) and actions (not going there). But I don't have an addictive personality and know when it's time to leave the party before the bouncer tells me I need to go. Some guys can't help themselves and people reading this probably haven't looked at the ingredient profile or ever taken it for themselves so it sounds like you're being a bit over the top (which you are) but they dont see theres something to what you are saying.

But for real if you havent (or have) used them, stay fat away from methamphetamines and the other white stuff. You're a few steps away from a narc-anon nightmare story.

Hey guys I’m new to the forum. I thought I’d join after reading the Excelsior stuff on this thread.

I’ll just get straight to it...has anyone had problems with Excelsior addiction?

I found Excelsior about a year ago and pretty much immediately got addicted. I’ve tried almost every hyped up pre over the past 10 years and I’d say my first scoop of Excelsior blew everything else out of the water (besides maybe the OG Craze). The first 2 tubs I ordered were expiration dates 09/21 and 10/22. The euphoria was always consistent- lasted about an hour or so. The dry mouth on the stuff was ridiculous. And I’d crash almost every time after an hour or so with anxiety and some depression. Despite the negatives, I started taking it daily for about 2-3 months. I even had some other solid pre’s on hand like Dark Energy and Dark Labs Crack, but Excelsior was just so much better it was hard for me to not take it every day.

Anyway, after about 2-3 months of consuming nearly daily and 4-5 tubs later, I had a kind of “come to Jesus” moment where I realized I was addicted to it and didn’t want to be addicted to a pre workout. Plus the added negative sides of anxiety and depression just didn’t seem worth it. So on a whim one night, I threw out all my remaining tubs. The next morning I immediately regretted it and over the next few days was seriously depressed. It was probably a combo of withdrawal and also just feeling crappy that I threw out like $200 worth of pre workout. So a few days later, I bought another tub of Excelsior and immediately felt happier. My drug was on the way. When I got the tub, I noticed the powder looked different (more pink instead of red) and even tasted a little bit more bitter. The effected were also blunted. Less euphoria but also less of a crash. As I kept taking the tub, the effects diminished to the point where I felt literally nothing on it. I even took a 3 week break went back to it and still felt nothing. Well this sucked but in a way it was good because I broke my addiction and pretty much moved on from Excelsior.

Over the next few months (March-October) I tried a bunch of other pre’s. I bought some Hydrazine which was the closest thing to Exceslior. It’s definitely a much milder version of Excelsior. Some euphoria, good focus, and tiny crash. It’s pretty clean and smooth. But being in the States, the price is pretty ridiculous especially if you’re taking 2 pills a day. Honestly I don’t feel a ton of difference between Hydrazine and Thermal Spark. Hydrazine is probably a little smoother feeling while Thermal Spark is more stimmy/dirty if that makes sense.

Moving on haha, about month ago, I started reading some YouTube comments about the new batch of Excelsior 08/23. And it sounded like it might be back to it’s old self. So I bought another tub with low expectations after my experience with the 02/23 batch. I got my tub in the mail, took one scoop, and here I am a month later and almost done with the whole tub.

Is the 08/23 batch as good as the 09/21 and 10/22? I’m not sure. But it’s pretty damn good. I have noticed with this new tub that if I go over 1 scoop the crash is just too much to handle and the stimulation is overboard. And the dry mouth on this is even worse than before. Interestingly, on the old tubs it said the serving size was 1-2 scoops. On this tub the serving size just says 1 scoop. I honestly haven’t gone over 1 scoop this whole tub and really haven’t a felt the need to. Sometimes even 1/2 scoop to 3/4 of a scoop does the trick. The problem is now I’m addicted again. I told myself I would only take it twice a week a rotate with a few other pre’s I have. However, over the past 2-3 weeks I’ve literally taken Excelsior every day with a sprinkle of Hydrazine here and there.

Do you guys have any advice? I know I need to take a stim break but mentally and maybe even physically, that sounds like torture. I would love to eventually wean myself off of pre workouts altogether because I know my adrenals need a break. But I seriously feel like I can’t even function without pre workout, specifically Excelsior right now. Ive got a pretty small stack of pre’s right now - Excelsior, Hydrazine, Prephase KO, and Juggernaut Wild. Is rotating through these each day the best way to go to avoid addiction and tolerance?

I know I sound like a complete bitch but this Excelsior stuff is no joke. It’s my drug of choice right now and I want to find out how to take it responsibly.

 

[Designbuilt]

I have a prescription for 30mg adderall twice a day, that does the trick... But when I ran out, i tried using kre-alkalyn with caffeine and coffee and it feels about the same, believe it or not... So now, i alternate between the two, I like to take time off the amphetamines, to give my mind a break and not get too hooked on them... Plus it's hard (no pun intended, ok it was) to get it up on amphetamines or ephedrine, kre-alkalyn is a lot easier on my equipment downstairs and it doesn't last as long...

 

[Hansen214]

Thanks guys for the replies. I definitely have an addictive personality. I’ve never dabbled with illicit drugs but I’d imagine I would have a very hard time using them responsibility. Even stuff like Kratom and Phenibut I just don’t mess with even though I’d like to, because I know that I’d more than likely get addicted. I think my solution is to cut my Excelsior consumption to twice a week. Right now I have 4 different pre workouts on hand and my plan is to rotate through them each day of the week. Yeah I’d like to take Excelsior every day but this seems like a sustainable plan at least for a little while. Also it will help my Excelsior stash last a lot longer. I literally take pre workout every day which I know is a big issue. Ideally, I’d like not to be reliant on pre workout and stop taking it altogether. I know that this is all mental and not physical, but in my mind I’ve built up the idea that I can’t go to the gym or have a fun gym session without pre workout. A full on stim break scares the shit out of me but I know I eventually need to ease into it. I know once I go to the gym without a pre it might suck a little, but I’ll realize I’m fine and mentally I can start to break away. I also worry a little about the health risks of taking pre workout daily over a long period of time. I recently got blood work done and my GFR and creatinine levels were normal but my Blood Urea Nitrogren (BUN) level was 24 and I believe the normal range is like 9-20. This might mean nothing as far as my kidneys are concerned but it might be something as well. The doctor didn’t talk to me about it so I assume it’s fine. But still I’m 32, just about to by a new house with my wife, no kids yet. But I don’t want to jeopardize my future health by pounding pre workout every day for the rest of my life. But dammit I love it at the same time haha

 

[Elvia1023]

How old are you?

The current batches I have are 2/23. I did notice they changed a bit from the old one. The color being the most obvious difference. They are a little less potent. But I wouldn't say there are not effective. I think thats probably your tolerance building up to what it is now. This stuff still works great for me. So much so I am going to get a few new tubs in case they become hard to come by or one of the other guys on here wants one at some point.

This stuff isnt "addictive" in the physical sense. You are experiencing what people who habitually smoke weed and stop suddenly experience. The advice is the same for anyone else who has an addiction whether it's drinking or anything else: stay away from it. It's supposed to be a workout aid, not a problem to deal with.

I use it for the same reason you do, because it's awesome. If you like stims, you will be happy. I admit taking it for the mental effects and as an adult I should be able to get that especially if it's productive and I know what I am getting into. But I dont need to take it everyday and if they stop making this shit I'll just call elvia who seems to be the guy who hears about this stuff first. I'll move on to the next thing or hit make arnold up for some liquid Kigelia Africana which is supposedly what gives this stuff it's kick.

Either use it 2 -3 days a week when you train or dont use it because you can see you have an issue with it. Addicts dont register "responsible" usage so that may be out of the question for you since you have an addictive personality.

To be clear this isnt a knock on you. Ive done my share of dumb shit (drugs) and actions (not going there). But I don't have an addictive personality and know when it's time to leave the party before the bouncer tells me I need to go. Some guys can't help themselves and people reading this probably haven't looked at the ingredient profile or ever taken it for themselves so it sounds like you're being a bit over the top (which you are) but they dont see theres something to what you are saying.

But for real if you havent (or have) used them, stay fat away from methamphetamines and the other white stuff. You're a few steps away from a narc-anon nightmare story.

Exactly.

Hansen you are not chemically addicted to excelsior it just sounds like you are "addicted" to stimulants and because excelsior is so potent that is top of your list. It may include something not listed on the ingredient panel but you are still not chemically addicted. Although it's sounds like you have an addictive personality and will think you need it to get so you need to change your behaviour asap. I wouldn't just come off completely but taper down. Even without a problem I wouldn't use excelsior daily. I used it most days for a few weeks and it's effects reduced very quickly. You are on that many stims your adrenal system will be fucked so and you don't respond like standard users. I would use excelsior a max of 3 times weekly. For you now I would do that and use standard caffeine in your off days but move down in dose. I would come off excelsior soon and carry on with standard caffeine and taper that down before coming off all stimulants. Definitely have at least 2 months off and then your sensitivity should be good again. Even so I would never go back to your old ways.

I use preworkout all the time and I am going to start training 6 days per week for about 1 month (if I need an off day I will use it) but I never feel like I need them. Well maybe when I am tired but want to train but not to get me through each day. I plan to use a preworkout each of my 6 training days with none on my off day. The difference is on at least 3 of those training days I will only use something with no exotic stimulants in. Something like Mypreworkout+ which contains 300mg caffeine per scoop. If I were to get excelsior again it would probably be for 2 days per week at most and mainly for legs.

You need to taper down and have a break and if you use them again be sensible and never use strong stimulants everyday because your body will start to depend upon them to feel normal. I know a few people who use massive amounts of stimulants just to feel normal and very bad for your health. Make preworkouts effective for training by having breaks and looking at how many stimulants you take in away from workouts. You may feel crap coming off them but it won't last too long. Lastly I think anyone who used at preworkout at the same dose for months would probably notice reduced effects. That's not to state their product didn't change over time (I am sure it did if many noticed) but I have used 2 batches (3 or 4 tubs) so far and both have been equally strong to me.

 

[Elvia1023]

Thanks guys for the replies. I definitely have an addictive personality. I’ve never dabbled with illicit drugs but I’d imagine I would have a very hard time using them responsibility. Even stuff like Kratom and Phenibut I just don’t mess with even though I’d like to, because I know that I’d more than likely get addicted. I think my solution is to cut my Excelsior consumption to twice a week. Right now I have 4 different pre workouts on hand and my plan is to rotate through them each day of the week. Yeah I’d like to take Excelsior every day but this seems like a sustainable plan at least for a little while. Also it will help my Excelsior stash last a lot longer. I literally take pre workout every day which I know is a big issue. Ideally, I’d like not to be reliant on pre workout and stop taking it altogether. I know that this is all mental and not physical, but in my mind I’ve built up the idea that I can’t go to the gym or have a fun gym session without pre workout. A full on stim break scares the shit out of me but I know I eventually need to ease into it. I know once I go to the gym without a pre it might suck a little, but I’ll realize I’m fine and mentally I can start to break away. I also worry a little about the health risks of taking pre workout daily over a long period of time. I recently got blood work done and my GFR and creatinine levels were normal but my Blood Urea Nitrogren (BUN) level was 24 and I believe the normal range is like 9-20. This might mean nothing as far as my kidneys are concerned but it might be something as well. The doctor didn’t talk to me about it so I assume it’s fine. But still I’m 32, just about to by a new house with my wife, no kids yet. But I don’t want to jeopardize my future health by pounding pre workout every day for the rest of my life. But dammit I love it at the same time haha

Just read this and it's good to see. Definitely do that. Just save the strong stuff for certain times. Definitely taper down but you can still take approx 300mg caffeine most days if you want. Well that isn't medical advice and I am not stating it couldn't go against your health I just think it's not too bad having a bit of caffeine before training. The problem with many is they take that dose 3-5 daily when it should be once and taken with purpose. Although I do think you also need a complete break but taper down to that then have at least 1 month off as you will only feel better for it. Then when you get back on hopefully those more standard products hit you hard and excelsior at 2 times per week max will hit you like a sledgehammer

 

[Hansen214]

Just read this and it's good to see. Definitely do that. Just save the strong stuff for certain times. Definitely taper down but you can still take approx 300mg caffeine most days if you want. Well that isn't medical advice and I am not stating it couldn't go against your health I just think it's not too bad having a bit of caffeine before training. The problem with many is they take that dose 3-5 daily when it should be once and taken with purpose. Although I do think you also need a complete break but taper down to that then have at least 1 month off as you will only feel better for it. Then when you get back on hopefully those more standard products hit you hard and excelsior at 2 times per week max will hit you like a sledgehammer

This is awesome advice. The 4 pre’s I have now are Excelsior, Hydrazine, Prephase KO, and Juggernaut Wild. All have exotic stims most notably Kigelia Afrikana or whatever precursor amphetamine is in Excelsior and lesser extant Hydrazine. And DMHA in Prephase and Wild. I usually train 6 days a week and was thinking about rotating these 4 pre’s over those 6 days of training. Which is probably still overkill but it’s at least a step for me. For days when I use Excelsior I’m planning on only taking 2/3 a scoop and on days I take Hydrazine only 1 pill. Whereas before I was taking a full scoop of Excelsior and 2 Hydrazine. Honestly, a better plan would be to take the pre workouts 4 days during the week and then on the other 2 days just a monster or coffee. That way I avoid the exotic stims on a few of the days. When I taper down off of stims, does this include standard caffeine/coffee? That sounds like a real bitch haha. Or is it ok to just take a break from exotic stims? I think I know the answer but just don’t want to hear it. Life without caffeine sounds like a hellish existence

 

[Elvia1023]

This is awesome advice. The 4 pre’s I have now are Excelsior, Hydrazine, Prephase KO, and Juggernaut Wild. All have exotic stims most notably Kigelia Afrikana or whatever precursor amphetamine is in Excelsior and lesser extant Hydrazine. And DMHA in Prephase and Wild. I usually train 6 days a week and was thinking about rotating these 4 pre’s over those 6 days of training. Which is probably still overkill but it’s at least a step for me. For days when I use Excelsior I’m planning on only taking 2/3 a scoop and on days I take Hydrazine only 1 pill. Whereas before I was taking a full scoop of Excelsior and 2 Hydrazine. Honestly, a better plan would be to take the pre workouts 4 days during the week and then on the other 2 days just a monster or coffee. That way I avoid the exotic stims on a few of the days. When I taper down off of stims, does this include standard caffeine/coffee? That sounds like a real bitch haha. Or is it ok to just take a break from exotic stims? I think I know the answer but just don’t want to hear it. Life without caffeine sounds like a hellish existence

I think it should be a break from exotic stims then a break from all preworkouts. You could taper down to just coffee but I would also recommend a full month off all caffeine. Well exceptions can be tea and dark chocolate and things like that but no strong coffees. It's up to you and anything is better than nothing but if you only have those products I wouldn't recommend taking them 6 days per week. You can taper down to that now but I recommend having at least 3 days in the week were you're not taking any stronger stims. On those days you could have a double espresso preworkout or something with just standard stims in. In the US Dymatize PRE is easy to get and I found that to be an amazing product for this purpose. As a stim "junkie" you may not feel it so much but I found it to be great and I take high doses of pre's all the time. It's still contains 300mg caffeine and 125mg theacrine so it's by no means weak either. Something like that would be ideal for a product to give you a kick but also allow some time off the stronger stuff. If you were to try it try to have 2 days out of the gym and off preworkouts before you do just to give it a chance to impress.

 

[DK0223]

I took 1.5 scoops of gamer the last time. What's in the jug is definitely effective, the mental state just doesnt last long at all. I suspect that if there were a bit more caffeine it would last a bit longer (i know im stating the obvious). I intend on trying some gamer with a bit more caffeine and 50mg of dmaa. I'm not calling the product bad or anything. It's clearly marketed as a nootropic and in that light it is what it's supposed to be and I am comparing it to a preworkout so its not a like to like comparison. I would love to see the nootropics with more stim but since thats not what this is I can just modify it. Homebrew craft preworkout.

It doesnt compare to excelsior at all. I havent taken anything that does that beside the original jack3d with geranium stem. Right now, Excelsior with the DMAA is an unbeatable combination. I plan on trying some of elvias top picks at some point. I have shit luck picking these things out myself and he was on point with excelsior. Dude clearly has passion for this stuff.

another good one is moon shot by astroflav. But yea excelsior is unreal