The Program movie about lance opens debate on what is "fair" imo

[Fit2Serve]

this movie made me go completely full circle with what is a "level playing field"

bare with me... I am almost 40 yrs old and anyone my age would tell you my 20 yr old self would beat me in any competitive sport. any.

soooo, what is "fair" a guy 25 yrs old with a v02 max of 90 and test level of 1000 going against a guy 35 yrs old with v02 max of 80 and test level of 750....? I kinda think that is unfair..... bc we have science I think it makes sense to dope to IDEAL physiological levels of hormones THEN all athletes would have same chance at winning. it would finally come down to who tries harder.
until then its just who has the best hormones god given or intravaneiusly.

this whole thing makes me think simple power sports will always be ruled by drugs. all the drugs in the world cant make you a Michael Jordan if you aren't Michael Jordan. BUT drugs in powerlifting, bb'ing, cycling, prob shot put, javelin etc basically any sport riding on power will always be a drug problem sport....
#theyshouldtestgolfers
-F2S

 

[Fit2Serve]

to apply this directly to bodybuilding its like if you entered a nattie bb'ing comp and your natural test level was 350 meanwhile another guy enters and his natural test level is 750.... he will have the edge. period. soooo, what is most fair juicing to have same levels or competing natural and being deficient due to fate and genetics not how hard you work....

seems like in the future sports need to dictate what are the MAX levels of hormones guys are allowed to have. then they all dope to be at those levels and then we finally have a level playing field. :lightbulb:
sorry for rant lol
-F2S

 

[Elvia1023]

I see your point but thats the point about getting old. All athletes have a certain shelf life. Some are so good they can compete (run, soccer, basketball, throw javelin etc etc) and even win till they are fairly old.

Your genetics determine everything. So if you are 4ft 11 you are probably never going to be a famous basketball player. The same goes for all sports and for your IQ, test levels, tendon strength, speed, jumping power etc.

I guess the whole point is that you can't really have a level playing field. It's a awkward subject as drug cheats are bad. But for some instances it's just become silly. Plus it's not as simple as saying ok all sprinters or boxers can take aas etc so it's a level playing field. Many don't want to take drugs so again it will never be a level playing field no matter what the rules are. I guess they could have drug tested and non drug tested sports but that just over complicates things and doesn't solve the problem.

 

[Fit2Serve]

I see your point but thats the point about getting old. All athletes have a certain shelf life. Some are so good they can compete (run, soccer, basketball, throw javelin etc etc) and even win till they are fairly old.

Your genetics determine everything. So if you are 4ft 11 you are probably never going to be a famous basketball player. The same goes for all sports and for your IQ, test levels, tendon strength, speed, jumping power etc.

I guess the whole point is that you can't really have a level playing field. It's a awkward subject as drug cheats are bad. But for some instances it's just become silly. Plus it's not as simple as saying ok all sprinters or boxers can take aas etc so it's a level playing field. Many don't want to take drugs so again it will never be a level playing field no matter what the rules are. I guess they could have drug tested and non drug tested sports but that just over complicates things and doesn't solve the problem.

I used to joke that ^that would solve the problem in the Olympics. like bbing have a natural Olympics and a normal Olympics. sounds stupid at first BUT this is what we do in bb'ing... science is just so advanced now.... if I was a pro athlete in ANY sport I would DEFINITELY take advantage of supplying myself with optimal hormones.... seems obvious....
-F2S

 

[Elvia1023]

I used to joke that ^that would solve the problem in the Olympics. like bbing have a natural Olympics and a normal Olympics. sounds stupid at first BUT this is what we do in bb'ing... science is just so advanced now.... if I was a pro athlete in ANY sport I would DEFINITELY take advantage of supplying myself with optimal hormones.... seems obvious....
-F2S

True but it wouldn't solve anything. Nothing would change. You would have a few athletes doing the drug allowed one... probably 2nd tier athletes or ones past their prime. All the athletes now are tested and I am sure there are many on drugs through parts of the year and they haven't been caught. So they would never come out. The athletes entering the drugs allowed division would be branded as past drug cheats with the thought he/she must have been taking drugs all a long. Then comes the logistics and it simply wouldn't work and would just complicate things even more.

Although it would be more fun wathing the Olympics knowing everyone was juiced to the gills on various drugs

 

[Fit2Serve]

True but it wouldn't solve anything. Nothing would change. You would have a few athletes doing the drug allowed one... probably 2nd tier athletes or ones past their prime. All the athletes now are tested and I am sure there are many on drugs through parts of the year and they haven't been caught. So they would never come out. The athletes entering the drugs allowed division would be branded as past drug cheats with the thought he/she must have been taking drugs all a long. Then comes the logistics and it simply wouldn't work and would just complicate things even more.

Although it would be more fun wathing the Olympics knowing everyone was juiced to the gills on various drugs

THIS lol

there was a Saturday night live skit where they were roided up Olympics and they tore their arms off doing a deadlift.
-F2S

 

[zaven]

"Pumping Up With Hans and Franz"

Classics...

 

[GottaGain]

What if there's an athlete that's not genetically gifted, but he can tolerate a lot of peds with minimal sides and has a great response to the drugs. Then there's a very naturally gifted athlete that gets sick on a small amount of drugs and doesn't have anywhere near the same response?

 

[tazzie]

I have a friend who is a competitive cyclist. My understanding from what he explained to me was that at one time, not too long ago, that was exactly what cyclists were allowed to do. The federation allowed various levels to get to "x" . Once you crossed "x" level, that was it. It created the most level playing field (theoretically) because everyone knew where the bar was.

 

[nothuman]

Is this a new movie? How can I watch it?

 

[Fit2Serve]

YES

Is this a new movie? How can I watch it?

I rented it on Vudu. its called "The Program" and is the story of Lance Armstrong. It shows some major doping strategies. never seen anything like it...
-F2S

 

[123go]

Paul Kimmage: In disturbing times for Nicolas Roche and cycling, has the landscape after Lance Armstrong really changed? - Independent.ie

The problem with sports like cycling .. the athletes do not share info..
Information trickles down from the pro ranks ..those given this info can win
and perhaps make it, get on a team, if you look at the ages of the cyclists lots of older cyclists, going way too quick, the younger generation are going to find it more and more difficult, it is just a arms race... if a drug is not on the banned list and its performance enhancing, those in the know will be on it, the talented young kids will then be taking drugs with no info excepts whats on sites like these that are not really geared towards such sports .risking their lives, putting positives in by taking banned drugs .. and being slagged off by the older ones who are juiced up to the gills on drugs that are not on the list and so not tested for