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"THE THINK TANK" - A Unique Perspective into the Mental and Physical Aspects of our S

I call BS on this Dr trying to find fame on YouTube.

Bodybuilders and athletes have been light years ahead of the medical community when it comes to things that work or don't work.

The International Olympic Committee banned clenbuterol as a performance-enhancing drug. Soon the World Anti-Doping Agency also included clenbuterol on their list of performance enhancing drugs and prohibited athletes from using it. If I remember correctly this all happened in the early 1990's.

Just the fact that it has been banned, and considered a PED, is proof positive that it is.........A Performance Enhancing Drug!

-MT


Well alcohol, weed, and morphine are also on that list but you'll have a hard time convincing me using those is going to help gain muscle lol.

Having said that, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I definitely agree with you that the medical community often, unfortunately, lags behind.

Let's just make this simple.

You have several experienced guys just on this thread saying it does.
Probably with over 100 years of combined experience and time spent "in the trenches".

Case closed! Period! End of discussion!

-MT

Come on MT we're just having some friendly discussion here :)

A few decades ago there were thousands of bodybuilders with 1000's of years of combined experience who would have sworn on their life that 6-8 meals a day "stokes the metabolism" and "keeps it burning" faster than 3 meals per day even if total calories are kept constant. Now we know, unequivocally, that this is an old myth as confirmed by every recent study on the subject and most people who have tried reducing meal frequency (I am not saying there's no benefit to more meals, I'm strictly speaking about the metabolism increasing myth). There are many examples like that.

Not trying to offend anyone
 
Well alcohol, weed, and morphine are also on that list but you'll have a hard time convincing me using those is going to help gain muscle lol.

They are banned substances, but NOT performance enhancers. I've done them all.... more of a nod and drool affair. In no wise do they enhance performance.
 
There is so much info on the internet both pro and con about everything!

It can easily be a source of confusion.

So.................if I make a statement about anything, it is a blend of
research and street experience. Not just mine but others who have
walked the walk.

Now imo, street knowledge often times is the best source of information
if you know the right people to talk to who are intelligent and have been
there, done that.

As another example take the topic of Proviron.
Try to find a Dr who has even heard of this compound.
Use the internet, there is nothing that an athlete can use as a solid source
of hands on experience.

It is probably one of the best orals one could use to get in contest shape.

That's my point............street knowledge, when it comes to sports
enhancing drugs is superior to anything on the internet or anything
a Dr can offer, based on my 38 years of experience.

Carry on ;).

-MT
 
My experience with Clen was for contest prep only; typically the last 4-6 weeks. I was taking other PEDS (no secret) while dieting and am confident that it burned that hard to get fat while preserving muscle tissue. I was always afraid to take a thyroid tablet because I wasn't confident on how to properly use it but the clen raised my body temp. to around 99.5 and my back was always sweating. Its difficult to pinpoint what does what when your taking a combination of stuff although I believe trial and error over the years identifies specific chemicals that seem to make the critical changes necessary when preparing for a show.

I would not recommend thyroid for young women; I continue to hear trainers putting college age bikini girls on thyroid tablets. If a trainer can't get a 21 year old girl down to 12% body fat without drugs they have no business being a trainer.
 
Last edited:
My experience with Clen was for contest prep only; typically the last 4-6 weeks. I was taking other PEDS (no secret) while dieting and am confident that it burned that hard to get fat while preserving muscle tissue. I was always afraid to take a thyroid tablet because I wasn't confident on how to properly use it but the clen raised my body temp. to around 99.5 and my back was always sweating. Its difficult to pinpoint what does what when your taking a combination of stuff although I believe trial and error over the years identifies specific chemicals that seem to make the critical changes necessary when preparing for a show.

I would not recommend thyroid for young women; I continue to hear trainers putting college age bikini girls on thyroid tablets. If a trainer can't get a 21 year old girl down to 12% body fat without drugs they have no business being a trainer.

Very good post bro, i personally love clen i use 20mcg before bed, and find i see noticeable changes over 2 weeks, while not losing any muscle or feeling any side effects from it.
 
I've heard/read a wide range of clen protocols and dosing. I have always ramped up to 100 mcg, 120 max, dosed 50 am and 50 no later than 2 pm. Once in the am is effective, twice a day maybe just a bit more so.
 
Dang..............back in the day when you could get Spirodent clen, I'd
have hand shakes at 40mcgs.

Today's stuff takes 80mcg before I notice anything.

-MT


I've heard/read a wide range of clen protocols and dosing. I have always ramped up to 100 mcg, 120 max, dosed 50 am and 50 no later than 2 pm. Once in the am is effective, twice a day maybe just a bit more so.
 
Hey MT

Ive been making my way through this thread.. only on page 27 though :p
So if you've covered this apologies

I peaked about two years ago it seems, then had to go through two different phases of prednisone and antibiotics
:.. ever since then my body hasn't been the same, just a very soft look

During the initial stage I would say I sipped maybe 15lbs of muscle and gained an equal amount of fat with no other variable change... now two years later, I'm the same weight as I was then, can rep out weights 50-100 lbs more with better form, yet still looks as though I've done next to nothing

Its a real PITA tbh...
About 6 weeks ago I crashed completely, got the flu, sinus infection, weights on the bar dropped ie 20 lbs on my pressing... got blood works done and my cortisol levels were "crashed" (I'm fixing to graduate so obviously will have some other variables)

Took about a month off "hard" training, ate around maintenance, feel a "lot" better now thsn I did before, that's for sure...

Question is, is this something you have to deal with forever in your experience are is there an "end"
Thanks for getting through the wall of text lol

Cheers
 
Kag,

Check your pm.

-MT


Hey MT

Ive been making my way through this thread.. only on page 27 though :p
So if you've covered this apologies

I peaked about two years ago it seems, then had to go through two different phases of prednisone and antibiotics
:.. ever since then my body hasn't been the same, just a very soft look

During the initial stage I would say I sipped maybe 15lbs of muscle and gained an equal amount of fat with no other variable change... now two years later, I'm the same weight as I was then, can rep out weights 50-100 lbs more with better form, yet still looks as though I've done next to nothing

Its a real PITA tbh...
About 6 weeks ago I crashed completely, got the flu, sinus infection, weights on the bar dropped ie 20 lbs on my pressing... got blood works done and my cortisol levels were "crashed" (I'm fixing to graduate so obviously will have some other variables)

Took about a month off "hard" training, ate around maintenance, feel a "lot" better now thsn I did before, that's for sure...

Question is, is this something you have to deal with forever in your experience are is there an "end"
Thanks for getting through the wall of text lol

Cheers
 
Hey MT

Ive been making my way through this thread.. only on page 27 though :p
So if you've covered this apologies

I peaked about two years ago it seems, then had to go through two different phases of prednisone and antibiotics
:.. ever since then my body hasn't been the same, just a very soft look

During the initial stage I would say I sipped maybe 15lbs of muscle and gained an equal amount of fat with no other variable change... now two years later, I'm the same weight as I was then, can rep out weights 50-100 lbs more with better form, yet still looks as though I've done next to nothing

Its a real PITA tbh...
About 6 weeks ago I crashed completely, got the flu, sinus infection, weights on the bar dropped ie 20 lbs on my pressing... got blood works done and my cortisol levels were "crashed" (I'm fixing to graduate so obviously will have some other variables)

Took about a month off "hard" training, ate around maintenance, feel a "lot" better now thsn I did before, that's for sure...

Question is, is this something you have to deal with forever in your experience are is there an "end"
Thanks for getting through the wall of text lol

Cheers

I didn't gain any new size after probably age 37 or 38, but I made improvements in density, separation, striation, etc. through my 40's. I did my last show at 51, about 10 lbs lighter than my heaviest stage weight. Then the injuries set in. I still put a lot of effort into training at 64 and still enjoy seeing improvements, but it is basically a "gain some over here, lose some over there" process. Doesn't matter. Diet is so critical now if I want to look my best.....
 
Wow 1 year bump [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLkR_5VnQeI&t=1s&list=WL&index=14"]Fortitude Training | Shoulder workout With Dr. Scott Stevenson - YouTube[/ame] this just reminded me of how much I love Scott.....anyone still doing Fortitude Training?
 
Not in awhile but I still do muscle rounds. How are you?
 
Not in awhile but I still do muscle rounds. How are you?

Muscle rounds were probably my favorite part of the program. Things are good on my end, just got back from a Caribbean cruise and deciding where I want to live as I finish up my residency and look to go into private practice in a few months.

Also just finished a cut to get the leanest I've been in my life which was done with no AAS (aside from my 80mg TRT) and no thyroid meds (first time dieting without them since 2011)....very difficult but glad I did it.

Still pushing any big weights?
 
Muscle rounds were probably my favorite part of the program. Things are good on my end, just got back from a Caribbean cruise and deciding where I want to live as I finish up my residency and look to go into private practice in a few months.

Also just finished a cut to get the leanest I've been in my life which was done with no AAS (aside from my 80mg TRT) and no thyroid meds (first time dieting without them since 2011)....very difficult but glad I did it.

Still pushing any big weights?

Sounds like your on track good for you. Heavy weights I try every now and then but it doesn't last long just get too sore in my joints. I work with a strongman competitor named Jeff Rose and after hearing him talk about lifting 350lb rocks I soon recognize my weights are little baby weights.....haha
 
Drenamin

My mom's boyfriend/life partner (just wish they would get married already lol) is a chiropractor and he gets me Standard process vitamins so I take their Adrenal complex and Drenamin. I also take ashwagandha, extra magnesium, b-complex and vitamin c when coming off stims...

Without a doubt, Drenamin is legit.
 
"THE THINK TANK" - A Unique Perspective into the Mental and Physical Aspects of our S

:welcome: :lightbulb: :headbang: :yeahthat: :sleeping- :welcome:

A Special Thanks to Big A, Jello, Aussiebulldog, Ironraider, Hellbilly, Mountaindog1 and everyone else who supported the idea of this thread.

A warm welcome to everyone,

I have thought a great deal about starting this thread and with the encouragement and support of many, have decided to do so. The intention of this thread is to scratch the surface of traditional thinking, to be open minded, to inspire others from our personal stories and challenges, and to think "outside the box".

Bodybuilding, included in that is powerlifting, strength athletes, strongman, fitness people, but not limited to just competitors, but their input is certainly welcome. I will refer to all of us as bodybuilders.
I view bodybuilding as a giant oak tree. It has many branches as do our own personal journeys. There are many ways to get to the top, and getting to the top might not be everyone's goal, that's OK. We all share a common denominator, a passion and a drive to be better than we are. We all share this. That's a pretty cool concept in itself.

We can discuss anything fitness related on this site. Training techniques, nutritional strategies, recuperation and recovery, injury prevention, injury recovery, health issues, share our own stories, really anything. I only ask that we are respectful towards one another, realize that we may disagree, but keep an open mind as we unravel some topics that are not often discussed.

One of the branches on our tree is the "gear branch". We can discuss that as well. Most of us have taken some risks, that's part of the journey.
But it is a SMALL part. It is not the MAIN TRUNK.
An example would be if you are a rookie to the sport. In my eyes a rookie is someone with less than 3 years of intense training, proper nutrition, proper rest and recovery (I was tempted to say 5 years). So for anyone who falls into this category, regardless if you've competed and are an advocate of excessive amounts of gear use, GH, slin, SEO and taking other drugs trying to eliminate some side effects and looking for advice, you've come to the wrong thread. You will sooner or later slip into a dark place and vanish from the sport. I have seen this happen far too many times in my 30+ years, so I know this to be a "truth". This is a sport of longevity, having wisdom, and being smart. Enough said.

Of the several people I've discussed this thread with before posting it, none of us are newbies to this sport, many of us with 20+ years in the trenches, doing things with an abundance of knowledge. We have made it this far by realizing these truths and have a clear picture of our boundaries and limitations. None of us are Mr Olympia's and truthfully probably no one on this site will ever be. Some of us have competed on the National level.
Certainly there are many who are clearly better than I was or will be. That doesn't mean we use this as an excuse for failure or not to push ourselves day in and day out.

Learning to be at peace with yourself, despite your perceived flaws, is truly what will make you persevere in this sport. Excell......but be real.
That's the underlying message of this thread. I believe we can all learn from each other.

Peace,

Mack

Everything from the foam roller thread and some great dialoge from another OP's thread will be transfered into this new thread. Thanks to Jello! So here we go.......


Hey Everyone,

I've recently been receiving lots of questions about this technique,
so I'm hoping this will shed some light on this form of deep tissue
massage. We've probably all seen videos of Jay Cutler on the message
table getting work done on his quads. This massage technique is called
Myofascial Release. He spends probably thousands a year on this, and could do a better job on his own.

Understand first that fascia is a specialized system of the body that has the appearance of a spider's web. Fascia is very densley woven covering and interpenetrating every muscle in the body. Intense, heavy and frequent training create myofascial restrictions, I call them "hot spots" or muscle adhesions.

I've read lots of people with questions on overtraining. Overtraining, simply put, is training a muscle before it is adequately recovered from a previous workout. If many people's quads are still sore from their last workout, often they will take another day of rest. That concept is as "old school" as it gets.
The major reason many take days to recover is because they are not spending any proactive time on the recovery phase, just using rest as their recovery. As an example, I could do the craziest, intense and insane quad workout, barely able to make it to the car and take the usual 3-4 days for the soreness to disapate. I now do the same workout, incorporate the rolling and experience little to a small amount of pain lasting no more than one day.

So what does this mean. If you increase the recovery time, you can hit that bodypart more often and thus put on some added muscle. Sounds like a good idea to me. If you log onto fitnesswholesale.com, you can buy a single roller, a double roller and even a triple roller. I just ordered a triple but I will limit this discussion to a single roller which is what I've used for the past few years. A single 3' x 6" diameter is what I recommend and it costs around $30.

The roller is made of a very dense foam rubber material. I do my rolling on a tile floor, but would recommend doing it on carpet to reduce the pressure.
First and very honestly, I realize that we all have above average pain threholds, but until you get used to it, get ready. It will feel like someone is stabbing you with a screwdriver. If you feel this, please do not stop. I would recommend doing it every day for as long as you can handle. Within 1-2 weeks most people can roll on it pain free. You will always have some hot spots to deal with. When you run unto one, stay on it using tiny short rolls until you feel that adhesion break apart. For most their IT band is what hurts the most.

The reason it's both so difficult and effective is because you are using your own bodyweight as the applied pressure. There is no massage therapist I've ever used that can come close to the pressure necessary to do this correctly.

So let's begin. Give yourself plenty of floor space, you will be lying down facing the floor. Lift your quads off the floor so you can place the roller just above your knee caps. Letting your feet drag along the floor will lession the pressure, so start that way. Slowly, begin to pull your upper torso forward using your elbows, keeping your upper body as paralel to the floor as possible. You may not be able to do it the first time but try to roll from above your knee caps to your upper thigh. Slowly build up so you can roll up and back with minimal pain. Next step, lift your feet off the ground. This will increase the pressure and do that for a few days until that becomes tolerable. The next increment would to rest one foot on the other so all your bodyweight is working only one side, then reverse and do the other side.
Hit the IT bands. Turn onto one side, starting with the roller just above your knee cap and roll all the way up to your glute. Repeat on other side.

You will find overtime that you can roll on each head of the quad by slightly adjusting how you position your body on the roller. The reason we do this is to massage the area all the way down to the fascia level. This will dissapate
the lactic acid, increase blood flow, and improve circulation in the area. What all this means is recovering much more quickly. I have noticed more thigh sweep as well as more separation even though I'm in off season mode.

I do this 5-6 days a week, mostly because it feels so good. I would advice doing this almost every day if possible. Do it immediately after quads and repeat a few hours later. I roll for about 20 minutes and have this little routine I do. Every other day I do it just once while watching TV. I have given myself a 12 month prep period getting ready for the 2012 Master's Nats and you can bet this will give me a noticable advantage.

I have played around a lot with the roller. You can do calfs, lats, back and delts. I personally can never seem to get my body into the correct position to focus my weight on these areas. But play around, you may find an easier way.

I also use an Astym Tool on a regular basis. I use this on quads as well, bis, delts and forearms. It fairly wide so my wife helps me with delts, traps and back when I can talk her into it. Actually she's very good and hits those hard to reach areas a couple times a week.

Although I've been in the trenches for 30+ years, I am careful to offer advice.
This advice I am comfortable giving because I know for certain of it's value. All I ask is you keep an open mind, spend the $30 and give it a try.
Prove me wrong, I'd like that :yeahthat:

ps. I checked out some rollers at Walmart. Don't waste your money, they're junk and you'll be disappointed with the results.

Shout out with any questions or feedback. I'm always willing to help.

Peace,

Mack
Sleeping is also important for building muscles. You can learn the importance of sleep and how much sleep do you need from https://www.sleepcareonline.com/articles/how-much-sleep-do-i-need/
 

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