Thinking about increasing GH dose

[gulfcoast]

At what point do you old guys find a decreasing benefit in taking more GH?
I've found that my sweet spot seems to be a TRT dose of around 150-200mg week, 4iu of GH on workout days and 1mg of Reta split MWF.
Every four months I'll bump up the T to about 350 per week for a couple months then go back down, considering bumping up the GH to maybe 6iu.
Blood work every 4 months, daily blood pressure check and weekly blood sugar check, all numbers are great.

 

[Worldsfastestfatty]

Do it. See what happens.

You'll either like it or you wont

 

[Swifto]

How old are you?

4iu on TRT and going to 6iu during higher periods is pretty sensible I think, but depends on your age and goals?

 

[Sammy_J]

I would say 6iu is pretty reasonable as well. I usually hover around 6iu.

Why are you only using GH on workout days? Why not ED?

 

[TheOtherOne55]

You’re question is “where is a there a decreasing benefit of raising your GH dosage”? Bro, you’re farrrr far away from it at 4iu.

Experiment, experiment some more. Get into the 10-20iu range. Then we’ll have something to talk about.

 

[hawkmoon]

Here is my view and rationale on Growth Hormone dosing.

When using GH, I administer 8–12 IU intramuscularly (IM) in the delts on workout days only (3x weekly), post-training.

My reasoning is specific: I want a high, acute spike with IGF-1 conversion focused precisely when the body is signaling for post-workout recovery.
I avoid high doses in a daily protocol because that is where, in my experience, diminishing returns and unpleasant side effects emerge. Aside from the common issue of water retention, (which I fortunately do not experience) I want to avoid systemic, indiscriminate growth.
Chronic high dosing often leads to signs of excessive collagen synthesis, such as enlarged nasal cartilage and deepening nasolabial folds (see John Jewett's progression for a good example).
Since my goal is strictly muscle hypertrophy and some fat loss, I find this targeted approach prevents those aesthetic drawbacks. We cannot easily see internal changes, but should assume some are happening.

This is simply my take and the logic behind my protocol. While it works ideally for my goals, it may not suit everyone’s specific needs.

 

[Fleezy]

Chronic high dosing often leads to signs of excessive collagen synthesis, such as enlarged nasal cartilage and deepening nasolabial folds (see John Jewett's progression for a good example).

Impossible

IFBB pros only use low doses

 

[Fleezy]

Impossible

IFBB pros only use low doses

To be fair though

If high dose GH caused this symptom, wouldn’t virtually all IFBB pros display these deep facial lines?

I imagine Jewett uses a full face cpap mask.. maybe the combination of the two..

 

[hawkmoon]

To be fair though

If high dose GH caused this symptom, wouldn’t virtually all IFBB pros display these deep facial lines?

I imagine Jewett uses a full face cpap mask.. maybe the combination of the two..

I don't think the mask causes this despite what people say. A mask isn't going to fit exactly into the nasolabial folds and widen them.
The nose growth and other collagen/cartilage changes are correlated in research anyway.

This is all my opinion, but we do know for a fact that one of GH's "benefits" is increased collegen synthesis and chondrogenesis. Research makes it clear this can result in dermal hypertrophy, blurring detail as some suspect.
I just think it goes farther when using GH year-round everyday in high doses. I even know some people close to me who exhibit dramatic skin and nose changes in only a few years, especially those in their 40's and higher.
I think the older you get the more vulnerable you become, in part due to the loss of cartilage integrity (see the enlarged drooping ears and noses of the elderly).
We also have to consider that the sensitivity of chondrocytes and fibroblasts varies wildly, so some people will change more than others.

I don't mean to pick on poor John, but he is an easy example that comes to mind.
And yes of course there are changes with age and overall BW, but I think we can differentiate between this and a BB on GH specific facial changes.

 

[Fleezy]

I don't think the mask causes this despite what people say. A mask isn't going to fit exactly into the nasolabial folds and widen them.
The nose growth and other collagen/cartilage changes are correlated in research anyway.

This is all my opinion, but we do know for a fact that one of GH's "benefits" is increased collegen synthesis and chondrogenesis. Research makes it clear this can result in dermal hypertrophy, blurring detail as some suspect.
I just think it goes farther when using GH year-round everyday in high doses. I even know some people close to me who exhibit dramatic skin and nose changes in only a few years, especially those in their 40's and higher.
I think the older you get the more vulnerable you become, in part due to the loss of cartilage integrity (see the enlarged drooping ears and noses of the elderly).
We also have to consider that the sensitivity of chondrocytes and fibroblasts varies wildly, so some people will change more than others.

I don't mean to pick on poor John, but he is an easy example that comes to mind.
And yes of course there are changes with age and overall BW, but I think we can differentiate between this and a BB on GH specific facial changes.

View attachment 249762View attachment 249763

Holy cow yeah that comparison is wild

I have some folds in my face that I directly attribute to being fat

They go away completely when I’m bone lean tho

 

[Josefein421]

I don't think the mask causes this despite what people say. A mask isn't going to fit exactly into the nasolabial folds and widen them.
The nose growth and other collagen/cartilage changes are correlated in research anyway.

This is all my opinion, but we do know for a fact that one of GH's "benefits" is increased collegen synthesis and chondrogenesis. Research makes it clear this can result in dermal hypertrophy, blurring detail as some suspect.
I just think it goes farther when using GH year-round everyday in high doses. I even know some people close to me who exhibit dramatic skin and nose changes in only a few years, especially those in their 40's and higher.
I think the older you get the more vulnerable you become, in part due to the loss of cartilage integrity (see the enlarged drooping ears and noses of the elderly).
We also have to consider that the sensitivity of chondrocytes and fibroblasts varies wildly, so some people will change more than others.

I don't mean to pick on poor John, but he is an easy example that comes to mind.
And yes of course there are changes with age and overall BW, but I think we can differentiate between this and a BB on GH specific facial changes.

View attachment 249762View attachment 249763

What is the age different between the 2 pics though? It looks like a lot whether that is true or PED accelerated I dont know but you can see the fold even in the pic on the left.

I have had a similar progression inn my face(I think) just when I got into my 40s I noticed it. I do not wear a cpap and have never gone above 8iu gh.

 

[hawkmoon]

What is the age different between the 2 pics though? It looks like a lot whether that is true or PED accelerated I dont know but you can see the fold even in the pic on the left.

I have had a similar progression inn my face(I think) just when I got into my 40s I noticed it. I do not wear a cpap and have never gone above 8iu gh.

I think it is several years, which I why I mentioned age being a factor but not enough on its own IMO.

I think 8iu if used daily is more than enough to create changes over many years if you are genetically inclined. People who are very big and perhaps those who want to become very big will be using large doses over long periods. I won't use higher than 12 and that's 3x weekly so about 5iu daily if anyone wants to look at it that way.

I could be talking out my arse, but I do believe the documented collagen changes plus time plus susceptibility can equal significant changes.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I don't think the mask causes this despite what people say. A mask isn't going to fit exactly into the nasolabial folds and widen them.
The nose growth and other collagen/cartilage changes are correlated in research anyway.

This is all my opinion, but we do know for a fact that one of GH's "benefits" is increased collegen synthesis and chondrogenesis. Research makes it clear this can result in dermal hypertrophy, blurring detail as some suspect.
I just think it goes farther when using GH year-round everyday in high doses. I even know some people close to me who exhibit dramatic skin and nose changes in only a few years, especially those in their 40's and higher.
I think the older you get the more vulnerable you become, in part due to the loss of cartilage integrity (see the enlarged drooping ears and noses of the elderly).
We also have to consider that the sensitivity of chondrocytes and fibroblasts varies wildly, so some people will change more than others.

I don't mean to pick on poor John, but he is an easy example that comes to mind.
And yes of course there are changes with age and overall BW, but I think we can differentiate between this and a BB on GH specific facial changes.

View attachment 249762View attachment 249763

Dead on. Take a look at Jordan Peters face over the past decade. Also…mine lol

 

[gulfcoast]

How old are you?

4iu on TRT and going to 6iu during higher periods is pretty sensible I think, but depends on your age and goals?

58 6'4" 240 with visible abs, guessing around 12-14% bf, been working out since I was 18.

 

[gulfcoast]

I would say 6iu is pretty reasonable as well. I usually hover around 6iu.

Why are you only using GH on workout days? Why not ED?

I just like to give my body a break from it, it's basically 3 on 1 off so pretty basic.

 

[gulfcoast]

You’re question is “where is a there a decreasing benefit of raising your GH dosage”? Bro, you’re farrrr far away from it at 4iu.

Experiment, experiment some more. Get into the 10-20iu range. Then we’ll have something to talk about.

I'm 58, pretty sure I don't need 10-20iu to get the results I want at this point in my life. Thanks to Reta at 1mg week I don't even really need the fat loss that might come with a higher dose.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I'm 58, pretty sure I don't need 10-20iu to get the results I want at this point in my life. Thanks to Reta at 1mg week I don't even really need the fat loss that might come with a higher dose.

Thats not the point.
You asked what was the point of decreasing benefit...and you have a ways to go. Every 1-2iu increase, you will notice something different UNTIL you hit 10-20. There are literally 1000 threads on this forum that explain that and you've made a thread basically asking if 4iu is better than 2. And if 6iu is better than 4. And so on.

And its not realllly a fat loss. GH is the most expensive fat burner ever. If you're thinking about it as such, i would change my way of thinking. But i get it. You're 58. In the circumstance you're at now, every 1iu higher is going to be "better." Better is ability to stay leaner, sleep better, recover more, etc.