This new "enhanced TRT" trend....

[maldorf]

you need to establish your baseline.

what shocked me i was running 125mg of test maybe a little more i cant remeber but around there and my test levels came back in the 730 range.

my friend never took anything in his life same age as me his test level naturally was 900 i kid you not. thats really high. we were both 30

I think its best to get your own bloods done and not worry to much what other people are doing. its really kind of irrelavant what anyone else does.

Yep. 100 mg puts me in the mid 800s.

 

[maldorf]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think about it all the time.

Would you mind sharing where your hematocrit usually sat?

It got as high as 62. tested that at the blood bank and they refused to take my blood. I had to go to my family doctor and he just told me to get off everything and stay clean, basically treated me like a degenerate drug addict.

I ended up in desperation doing my own phlebotomies here at home and got it down to about 15 hemoglobin, which is around 45-48 hematocrit. I had my clot I think less than 5 days from my last self phlebotomy. I had done two of them separated only by 7 days. I had a meter and was tracking my hemoglobin.

 

[NEMSZ]

I was having trouble with high hematocrit there about 6 months leading to the blood clot. I did my own phlebotomies at home because my family doctor didn't want to, his answer was "go off steroids". For me at the time I wasn't willing to do that completely. at the time I was only taking about 250 mg/wk test and 100 mg tren I believe, its been about 11 years now so my memory is fading. I got my hemoglobin down to around 15 when I had the clot, so it wasn't the hematocrit directly that caused the clot. I wonder if doing two phlebotomies in close succession didn't trigger clotting factors to increase.

After the heart attack I found that I have a genetic clotting disorder, factor 2. Prothrombin disorder. We have heart disease in the family, but a majority of the world does too. It is the leading killer, so I don't think my family history of heart attack is too much different than most. Both of my grandmothers lived to be 94-96 years old. One of my grandfathers died in either his late 70s or early 80s from parkinsons and my other died around the age 67 of a heart attack. I think he was the one that had this clotting disorder, but no way to know.

Just taking testosterone increases your chances of blood clots. Pretty sure all steroids do, and some may be worse than others. Im not sure about the mechanism behind it, but it is a well known medical fact. Even estrogen increases the chances, and because of that one of my daughters shouldn't take traditional birthcontrol pills because of that.

With me, the blood clot was most probably brought on by the combo of steroid use and my disorder. Nobody else in my family has been documented to have had a clot like me. Both my mother and uncle tested to have it and they are 80 and 82 years old, not a single problem ever in their lives.

About 5 years prior to my heart attack, I was diagnosed with idiopathic cardiomyopathy and had an ejection fraction of only 35%. I went off steroids, completely clean for about 11 months, and it climbed back up to 55% or so. I had zero symptoms. Doc gave me a clean bill of health and then I was stupid and proceeded to go back on steroids again. This experience I had is more than enough to convince me that steroids are bad for the heart, period. I was addicted though and just couldn't stay away.

Thanks for the reply bro..

Yea I was reading through your situation last night, and there were a couple guys who offered advice and reached out to you as well who went through something similar, not sure where they’re at now but just goes to show people on here only read what they want to read.. And by that I mean I’ve sometimes seen guys give you and others shit about being health nuts and make you feel like your odds were 1 in a billion and your original thread shows that’s clearly not true...

Is the reason for the cardiomyopathy known? Or you’re just attributing it to the AAS?

I read though what I could on your thread and you said you were pretty much cruising on what people in this thread are either justifying using or seeing others use (the 500mg AAS total, and mostly Test from what I saw you write) and that your blasts were more aggressive but sometimes not going over 6-8 weeks... People are delusional to think they can go year round on different compounds and never have any consequences, there’s more than just your case in your thread alone on this very subject and the consequences..

On another note, I had my genes tested by “23 and Me” and they test for Thrombophilia and I didn’t have that gene variant lol but reading through everything it’s making want to check out some possible other testing..

 

[thethinker48]

This hobby was never healthy to begin with...

Everything boils down to risk tolerance (or the false assumption of understanding what those two words actually mean)

 

[NEMSZ]

This hobby was never healthy to begin with...

Everything boils down to risk tolerance (or the false assumption of understanding what those two words actually mean)

True, but I will say that until about 10 years ago, the word around EVERYWHERE was that AAS weren’t bad for health and everything was blown out of proportion, doctors didn’t know what they were talking about etc... Everyone and their mother said those things...

Lately in the last few years is when people are saying the above;

“This sport/hobby isn’t healthy”

 

[cm]

Anyone notice this? Rather than cycling or blasting there's kind of a thing to staying on, it seems to be agreed upon, under 500mg of total AAS year round and just never cruising or blasting.

There's people on forums doing it but the more "famous" ones, Marc Lobliner on 300mg Test/200mg Deca/MK677, Jerry Ward on 200 test/200 Deca (these two have prescriptions), Jon Skywalker on 250 test/250 Masteron (he changes it constantly but that's his go to cruise as of now).

What's a little more shocking to me is the guys that are actually getting it prescribed and are posting up good bloodwork.

This isn't a thread to start a war, I'm just curious on what people think of this because years back I kind of tossed this idea around and people thought I was insane but my theory came from three points:

1. Blasting/Cruising is basically a constant up and down in not just hormones, but you basically trash your lipids, blood pressure etc. for a period of time, then wait for them to normalize, then trash them again for a period time over and over
2. Most people are blasting on a lot of stuff other than testosterone, some stuff that is borderline poison, ie. tren, superdrol, DNP. Some of this stuff your body is clearly trying to reject and people just try to cope with the side effects and ride them out.
3. While being on 300-400mg of testosterone and possibly HGH year round will obviously create some issues, it seems a bit safer in some regards to just be at a stable level all year, this would be with a perfect diet, cardio, regular blood donations and very good health supplementation. (I can't speak for deca, I really don't know much about it and even though it's prescribed, I would only feel comfortable with test and growth).

Don't jump all over me, the above are just my assumptions and could easily be totally wrong. Just curious what the smarter guys on here make of this because it seems to be the new thing with a lot of the guys now trying to lose size after all the death scares and just maintain a more moderately above average physique.

i would just do what you think is right for you, what makes you happy, what is effective, what is healthy

I dont know who the guys are you mentioned in your post, but I dont know why it would matter who they are, or what they did/do/take/took
I would approach it like you would any other rational decision, which Im assuming doesnt take any info from the social media world or other sources that these people are coming from - which prob has some sort of sales pitch with it. (esp if its some new thing, as you say)

 

[candychu]

Exactly. I wish I could have full body scans of everything (especially for the heart) every year. That would be great but cost a fortune especially where I live. I looked into it but it cost a ridiculous amount. Plus even with scans and blood work combined you may appear healthy and die 2moro. Just do your own thing, be happy and try to stay as healthy as you can/want.

Wich test you make to be suire that your heart is ok?

 

[buck]

This hobby was never healthy to begin with...

Everything boils down to risk tolerance (or the false assumption of understanding what those two words actually mean)

That pretty much applies to everything. Financials, investing, dating relationships and the list goes on.

 

[maldorf]

Thanks for the reply bro..

Yea I was reading through your situation last night, and there were a couple guys who offered advice and reached out to you as well who went through something similar, not sure where they’re at now but just goes to show people on here only read what they want to read.. And by that I mean I’ve sometimes seen guys give you and others shit about being health nuts and make you feel like your odds were 1 in a billion and your original thread shows that’s clearly not true...

Is the reason for the cardiomyopathy known? Or you’re just attributing it to the AAS?

I read though what I could on your thread and you said you were pretty much cruising on what people in this thread are either justifying using or seeing others use (the 500mg AAS total, and mostly Test from what I saw you write) and that your blasts were more aggressive but sometimes not going over 6-8 weeks... People are delusional to think they can go year round on different compounds and never have any consequences, there’s more than just your case in your thread alone on this very subject and the consequences..

On another note, I had my genes tested by “23 and Me” and they test for Thrombophilia and I didn’t have that gene variant lol but reading through everything it’s making want to check out some possible other testing..

The cardiomyopathy they have to call idiopathic because they cant say for sure what caused it. When I got off all the steroids though my heart recovered to normal. So I think that points a finger at steroids. Cant say 100%, but it is rather obvious.

I wouldn't trust 23 and me to test for clotting factors. I would see your doctor and tell him perhaps that you have a history of clots in the family and you are worried about it, or you could tell him the truth that you use steroids and want to be sure you don't have clotting problems. They can run the DNA test. I doubt 23 and me tests them all. I just wouldn't trust that.

 

[maldorf]

True, but I will say that until about 10 years ago, the word around EVERYWHERE was that AAS weren’t bad for health and everything was blown out of proportion, doctors didn’t know what they were talking about etc... Everyone and their mother said those things...

Lately in the last few years is when people are saying the above;

“This sport/hobby isn’t healthy”

Yes. It was a bit like how the media and public in general demonized pot and the whole refer madness bit. Guys into bodybuilding saw it as the same thing. Everyone was demonizing steroids.

 

[maldorf]

Wich test you make to be suire that your heart is ok?

Echocardiograms are great, along with a simple EKG.

 

[maldorf]

That pretty much applies to everything. Financials, investing, dating relationships and the list goes on.

Yeah, but with this it can actually kill you. The worst case scenario is death or having your health screwed like mine and short life span.

 

[Fit2Serve]

I’ve been back on my self prescribed version of HRT for 8 weeks after 9 1/2 months natural. I’m absolutely blown away with how fast I’m growing. My strength is about where it was already compared to where it was a year ago on 1.4 grams (Test, nandrolone, anadrol, tren). It’s no joke that going natural resets your androgen receptors. The bad part of the 9.5 month natural stint was I lost damn near all my muscle and got fat. I was so weak and achy it was no fun at all. There were a couple advantages of being natural with virtually no androgens. I only had to shave every 3 days. I was super mellow. My face seemed to reverse in age by 10 years due to no bloat at all. The wrinkles went away and my skin was softer with a much better complexion meaning I wasn’t beet red all the time from high hemoglobin.
Now I get stronger every single workout on at least one exercise. My arms are the part that are stubborn at returning to their previous size. I have arthritis in my elbows and wrists which prevent me from lifting very heavy on biceps and triceps which I believe is the issue.

My weekly TRT is
105mg testosterone phenylpropionate
105mg testosterone propionate
105mg nandrolone phenylpropionate

I take it in daily shots intramuscularly in my delts. I tried subconsciously but it hurt at the site most likely due to it being fast esters.
I chose fast esters just in case anything goes wrong with my sciatica I had so that I can stop and clean out quickly. I had bad inflammation all over last year which I believe was from ridiculously high hemoglobin. My spinal nerves are riding the line of being impinged so I like to know if the issue comes back I can go natural like last year to help things improve.

I started my HRT with 70mg Test/35mg NPP and didn’t feel better. I kept upping the dose until I found my sweet spot at 210mg Test/105mg NPP.

Yay! i too tried to go natty after years of abuse. was tired and achy and zero sex drive. my test level was 55 what a joke to think i could be natty lol
glad you are feelin better! i was wondering how long it would take you to get back on some test
-F2S

 

[johnjuanb1]

Yay! i too tried to go natty after years of abuse. was tired and achy and zero sex drive. my test level was 55 what a joke to think i could be natty lol
glad you are feelin better! i was wondering how long it would take you to get back on some test
-F2S

It’s a completely different feeling. No more depression. Horny all the time. A lot more aggressive which isn’t good because I have to really concentrate on being nice to everyone. My body feels 40 instead of 80 in terms of aches and pains.
I’m growing super fast. My max goes up every single workout. Fast acting esters really work great for strength gains.

 

[Fit2Serve]

It’s a completely different feeling. No more depression. Horny all the time. A lot more aggressive which isn’t good because I have to really concentrate on being nice to everyone. My body feels 40 instead of 80 in terms of aches and pains.
I’m growing super fast. My max goes up every single workout. Fast acting esters really work great for strength gains.

the gains are fun. i was skipping my self prescribed trt shots for weeks and last 3 weeks havent missed a shot and feel GREAT. gains/changes happening so quick. now at 150mg test e mwf and i call that a "blast" nowadays lol
-F2S

 

[HOOLIGAN]

Exactly. I wish I could have full body scans of everything (especially for the heart) every year. That would be great but cost a fortune especially where I live. I looked into it but it cost a ridiculous amount. Plus even with scans and blood work combined you may appear healthy and die 2moro. Just do your own thing, be happy and try to stay as healthy as you can/want.

I had a complete body scan done last year. My blood work has been good for years.
I'm 49 years old and decided to have it done after losing both parents in the last couple of years. Both had heart problems.
The scan showed that I have mild artherosclerosis.

I immediately went to a cardiologist and had a stress test, echocardiagram, etc.. Everything checked out Ok but he did recommend some lifestyle changes and suggested I lose around 15 pounds.

I don't want to go too far off topic but just wanted to make the point that good bloodwork doesn't always mean your Ok.

 

[brutus69]

That pretty much applies to everything. Financials, investing, dating relationships and the list goes on.

wrong. u cant compare drug use with the above. you're actively taking drugs that will hurt u in the long run.
u dont purposely invest to lose money or getting involved with someone who u know will fuck u over.
steroid abuse is the same as rec drug abuse.
the difference is u take rec drugs to feel good and u take gear to look good. until it fucks u up and end up looking like u did before u ever started. but worse cuz now yr old and life passed u by.

 

[maldorf]

It’s a completely different feeling. No more depression. Horny all the time. A lot more aggressive which isn’t good because I have to really concentrate on being nice to everyone. My body feels 40 instead of 80 in terms of aches and pains.
I’m growing super fast. My max goes up every single workout. Fast acting esters really work great for strength gains.

You should get your test levels done and see where you are at. Don't have it too high for long. Aim to keep it within the normal physiological levels. Around 800 is where mine is.

 

[maldorf]

until it fucks u up and end up looking like u did before u ever started. but worse cuz now yr old and life passed u by.

That's me. Now I cant even exercise with any intensity without worrying about going into V fib.

 

[MAD_SCIENTIST]

That's me. Now I cant even exercise with any intensity without worrying about going into V fib.

Hi maldorf. Wow scary. So how does your workout look like? So can you still lift? Do cardio? Do you know how to push yourself to that certain point before going to Vfib? Is there any exercise you avoid due to it's more likely to cause Vfib? Thank you in advance.
Take care.
MS