Those with experience of professional body building cycles; what is your opinion on the validity of this?

[Othello]

i am not sure how well you and @Bio are into echoes etc, but i would like to advise you one thing:
get an echo while being on any decent sized cycle and get an echo while being on trt only.
You will be surprised by the results...

pls elaborate?

 

[dantes]

I would expect most of Jansens guys are doing cycles like this. Dallas had the heart, liver and kidneys the size of a male lion and a brow like a Neanderthal. Brett Wilkins appears to be going down the same road as is nick walker. You don’t completely transform at that level doing 750 test and 500 anabolic

 

[gains4000]

I would expect most of Jansens guys are doing cycles like this. Dallas had the heart, liver and kidneys the size of a male lion and a brow like a Neanderthal. Brett Wilkins appears to be going down the same road as is nick walker. You don’t completely transform at that level doing 750 test and 500 anabolic

agreed. Brett is pushing the gh hard. his face has changed a lot hes aged 20 years.

 

[dantes]

agreed. Brett is pushing the gh hard. his face has changed a lot hes aged 20 years.

Compare his face to Dallas and they both have the same look. They also have the same voice which is strange. Based on the autopsy of Dallas whatever he was doing was extreme even compared to other pros.

You don’t get organ growth like that running 6iu GH and 2 gram cycles otherwise half the guys on this board would have massively enlarged organs.

I am not sure what those guys are doing and I am just talking out my ass here but I suspect it is very high test 5-10 gram, GH 20iu plus, 100 iu insulin plus and tren. I know Dallas had test levels in his system which were off the charts insane plus tren and reportedly had shot insulin when he died (was not the cause of death) and I don’t think they tested his igf and as I doubt that is standard in autopsy

 

[Killer.7]

O'Connor appears to not be on 50+mg Adderal in this video. Man that fucking guy is usually annoying.

US Spec Ops should hire him and Doucette to interrogate Al Queda. Those guys would either sing like canaries or beg to be shot in the head ASAP.

LMFAO this made me lol IRL

 

[luki7788]

push to the limit - you have to understand that in every sporca it is the same, you do everything at any cost. First of all, these guys - they have a sporting ambition and want to be the best, two - they make a living out of it and make money. They have time until they are around 40 to earn for the rest of their lives and make a name for themselves to then be a good coach or start their own supplement company or something similar. These people have devoted their whole lives to bodybuilding so they won't suddenly drop everything and start breeding cows lol

I know something about it - maybe I'm not a pro but in my country I am quite popular, I have a lot of online coaching clients, I run my own forum, I have well-paid contracts with supplement companies or peptide producers but I would not have all of this if I was not a freak to some extent so I have to be one for at least a few more years until I make money to open another business that will bring me income at the moment when I will not be able to push so hard

 

[Sixfoottwo]

Exactly. Your post hit the nail on the head. Bodybuilders definitely have a funny way of explaining things. Even just your general meathead is no different. I have had people tell me they come off because they didn't inject their long esters for 2-3 weeks. I have seen coming off protocol's from top coaches which are laughable and they think pumping your body full of HCG then not injecting for a few weeks is coming off. There are some who do come down and they do value their health but as posted there is only so much you can do (or I should state not do) before your looks starts fading away.

A 300 pound bodybuilder pumped up to the max needs hormones to not just grow but also maintain. Although at the same time he is not going to suddenly melt away if he goes on 250mg test for example but he is 100% going to lose his look the longer he stays at that dose. So big guys can do lower doses but the key is time and 1 month is fine, 2 months ok, 3 months worse etc. Every situation is different and some need/use more than others but no one is going to look like a mutation after 1 year of lower test but the thought process that everyone is always on grams of gear is also not correct.

Like with most subjects the answer is usually in the middle. Meaning so many people bullshit and hide the truth but at the same time I notice some newer guys on here (and all forums) are just all about the drugs and they think every pro who has ever existed is on grams and grams of gear and it's not the case. Nothing is surprising from the cycles in this thread and it's very common. Although the cruise is a bit weird but it's just one guy. The truth is most don't ever come off and as posted their idea of a cruise is just less drugs but still plenty but from my experience most just keep it simple. Big A has posted about this as well. A cruise could be anything but it's going to be 1-3 grams of basic injectables (test, deca, eq etc). Alot of guys due to social media etc now keep the likes of tren or avar in most of the year so they always have that on look but it's not everyone. Obviously HGH is always in the mix these days as well.

So sure loads of guys are taking grams all year but there are some who try to have low periods and be smarter when it comes to their health. Although I will state certain people have posted over the years about using TRT to grow and they are just full of shit. At the same time that doesn't make the guys who think everyone needs grams of gear to be big and lean correct either.

Again, good post.

I recently did a higher dosed cut + rebound cycle and it was awesome. Complete transformation, looked better than ever. Highest was around 2.2 gr of AAS and 6.5 IU hgh. I wanted to up my hgh to a full vial on trainingdays but my rhr and BP shot up so I decided to start a cruise. About 6 weeks in now on just 250 mg of Test and 150 of primo and the look just isn't there. Size is about the same, strength still climbing but it just looks off and I hate it..

I can very well imagine that people who want to look good on social media just don't come down that much. I don't post on social media except for this board so I don't care and just keep my shirt on but it's getting harder, especially in summer.

 

[johnjuanb1]

The thing that jumped out at me was the 700mg of Anavar a week year round. His HDL must always be at 0. I don't see how he won't have heart disease...probably has heart disease.

EDIT - Just watched the video and the guys coronary arteries are clean...mind blown! WOW!! That said, he has an enlarged heart and heart disease with a 35% ejection fraction.

Low HDL is responsible for clogging arteries but it’s always been my personal belief that if you don’t consume a diet with any saturated fats or cholesterol, you aren’t adding anything that will clog the arteries. For this reason I have almost always, over the past 25 years lived on a diet devoid in dietary fats. I’m older and wiser now so I consume fish oil, sesame oil, and MCT oil as my only fats, plus the few grams in oats. I now consume 18% of my calories from the aforementioned fats. In years past I literally had no fat other than the few grams in oats.
Many of the bodybuilders who consumed lots of saturated fats are already dead. Mike Matarrazo said he ate 5Lbs of red meat a day. That’s a recipe for heart issues obviously.
So what I’m suggesting is whether you are bulking or cutting, stick to lean protein sources: chicken breast, turkey breast, egg whites, talapia, white tuna. Stick to healthy carbs: yams, steamed rice. And only healthy fats, primarily omega 3’s.
Many guys are pushing whole eggs. Some died of heart attacks. I’m sticking to egg whites myself but that’s just my opinion.

 

[johnjuanb1]

As far as pros and drugs, it’s an individual thing. Some pros push more drugs then listed, a lot more. Some push a lot less. It depends on many factors. There are guys who are total freaks on low drugs. It’s rare of course. Pinkton coached Richard Jones for a pro show back in the day. All gear was controlled by Pinkton. Jones grew insanely fast on low drugs and less than heavy training. Genetics freaks do exist. He went from looking like nothing due to lack of training and no gear at the time, to winning that pro show and looking insane!

 

[g.r.o.w.t.h.]

As far as pros and drugs, it’s an individual thing. Some pros push more drugs then listed, a lot more. Some push a lot less. It depends on many factors. There are guys who are total freaks on low drugs. It’s rare of course. Pinkton coached Richard Jones for a pro show back in the day. All gear was controlled by Pinkton. Jones grew insanely fast on low drugs and less than heavy training. Genetics freaks do exist. He went from looking like nothing due to lack of training and no gear at the time, to winning that pro show and looking insane!
View attachment 163025

Thank you. Yeah, there are pros are pushing the envelope with grams of gear, 10+iu pharma gh, and boat loads of slin. There are also pros with elite structure and genetics that just don’t need all that. They take less gear than your average gym rat. Genetic freaks exist.

 

[TheRoid]

Low HDL is responsible for clogging arteries but it’s always been my personal belief that if you don’t consume a diet with any saturated fats or cholesterol, you aren’t adding anything that will clog the arteries. For this reason I have almost always, over the past 25 years lived on a diet devoid in dietary fats. I’m older and wiser now so I consume fish oil, sesame oil, and MCT oil as my only fats, plus the few grams in oats. I now consume 18% of my calories from the aforementioned fats. In years past I literally had no fat other than the few grams in oats.
Many of the bodybuilders who consumed lots of saturated fats are already dead. Mike Matarrazo said he ate 5Lbs of red meat a day. That’s a recipe for heart issues obviously.
So what I’m suggesting is whether you are bulking or cutting, stick to lean protein sources: chicken breast, turkey breast, egg whites, talapia, white tuna. Stick to healthy carbs: yams, steamed rice. And only healthy fats, primarily omega 3’s.
Many guys are pushing whole eggs. Some died of heart attacks. I’m sticking to egg whites myself but that’s just my opinion.

A healthy amount of EVOO, nuts, avocados, wild salmon Is way better for CVD prevention than zero fat.
Pasture-raised eggs and/or omega-3-enriched eggs are FAR from bad.

 

[Wolf79]

ian valleire says he does not abuse drugs. He said he was using a maximum of 1500mg drugs with low insulin and hgh during the offseason. Chris Bumstead claims that he never used hgh or insulin and gained most of his muscles by eating over 6,000 kcal and training hard

 

[Killer.7]

ian valleire says he does not abuse drugs. He said he was using a maximum of 1500mg drugs with low insulin and hgh during the offseason. Chris Bumstead claims that he never used hgh or insulin and gained most of his muscles by eating over 6,000 kcal and training hard

lmfao

 

[Cerberus777]

push to the limit - you have to understand that in every sporca it is the same, you do everything at any cost. First of all, these guys - they have a sporting ambition and want to be the best, two - they make a living out of it and make money. They have time until they are around 40 to earn for the rest of their lives and make a name for themselves to then be a good coach or start their own supplement company or something similar. These people have devoted their whole lives to bodybuilding so they won't suddenly drop everything and start breeding cows lol

I know something about it - maybe I'm not a pro but in my country I am quite popular, I have a lot of online coaching clients, I run my own forum, I have well-paid contracts with supplement companies or peptide producers but I would not have all of this if I was not a freak to some extent so I have to be one for at least a few more years until I make money to open another business that will bring me income at the moment when I will not be able to push so hard

So much truth. Cycling pros end up waking in the middle of the night and so sprints on the stationary so their blood won't clot. Extreme in every sport when money is on the line. The amature arena is pretty close and just get plastic trophies too. Bodybuilding isn't so niche.

 

[Othello]

ian valleire says he does not abuse drugs. He said he was using a maximum of 1500mg drugs with low insulin and hgh during the offseason. Chris Bumstead claims that he never used hgh or insulin and gained most of his muscles by eating over 6,000 kcal and training hard

my dad said he was just leaving for a pack of smokes

 

[Othello]

it’s always been my personal belief that if you don’t consume a diet with any saturated fats or cholesterol, you aren’t adding anything that will clog the arteries.

yeah.. idk about that bro

 

[juggy38]

my dad said he was just leaving for a pack of smokes

I’m dying I’m laughing so hard and feel terrible for doing so

 

[Sixfoottwo]

ian valleire says he does not abuse drugs. He said he was using a maximum of 1500mg drugs with low insulin and hgh during the offseason. Chris Bumstead claims that he never used hgh or insulin and gained most of his muscles by eating over 6,000 kcal and training hard

I'm no pro judge by any means, basically just a moron who likes to lift, but to me Iain looks like a guy who of course has way above average genes but not the top 0.01 % if you know what I mean. So a guy who has to go to extremes in his training, eating and usage to be competitive at his level.

But that might just be because I don't like his physique even though he seems like a cool guy.

 

[qbkilla]

I would expect most of Jansens guys are doing cycles like this. Dallas had the heart, liver and kidneys the size of a male lion and a brow like a Neanderthal. Brett Wilkins appears to be going down the same road as is nick walker. You don’t completely transform at that level doing 750 test and 500 anabolic

What were the findings of the autopsy? I remember seeing on the boards but don't remember specifically the damage level they found.

 

[Othello]

What were the findings of the autopsy? I remember seeing on the boards but don't remember specifically the damage level they found.