Thoughts on Dianabol/andriol only cycle

[Phidias]

Dianabol/andriol
30 mg ed of Dianabol
8 caps andriol ed

short answer to your question? Is this an effective way to cycle? NO not really. Much better ways to get what you want.

Of course there are much better ways to plan things! But to say it won't be effective is WRONG!

I know, that was also my VERY FIRST CYCLE a few years ago, in a time I was scared of needles...

And to the original poster: I got GREAT gains from it at the exact same dosages you mention... funny btw! No gyno, no bloat, incredible strenght gains and if memory serves, about 20 lbs lean mass added in 8 weeks.

But that's just me and you may not react the same. But for some YES it works, definitely.

 

[vadim_b1]

It's not ideal. I said there are more effective ways.

However, I think the rapid loss after oral cycles has a lot to do with the drug clearing so quickly. Not saying GR upregulation can't have an effect. I remember "Big Cat" writing about this GR upregulation and avoiding orals at the end of cycles. Gotta check the info again. Do you have data showing cortisol levels will be high immediately after the cycle as you say?

Of course, if the TS wanted to avoid this he'd continue with the test undecanoate for a while after coming off the 17aa.

yes i got that info from Big Cat as well. I remember him posting a research abstract on this, ill try to find it.

 

[0o0o0o]

Of course there are much better ways to plan things! But to say it won't be effective is WRONG!

I know, that was also my VERY FIRST CYCLE a few years ago, in a time I was scared of needles...

And to the original poster: I got GREAT gains from it at the exact same dosages you mention... funny btw! No gyno, no bloat, incredible strenght gains and if memory serves, about 20 lbs lean mass added in 8 weeks.

But that's just me and you may not react the same. But for some YES it works, definitely.

Thats what i wanted to know thanks alot!

Ive tried superdrol and epistane, I like orals just because I dont like injecting, 8mm sub-q are all I have really all I have used... for ghrp ghrh...


Right now im leaning toward

5 week cycle- turanabol (or the other 4 spellings) 60mg for 5 weeks
PCT- Aromasin(25 mg ed for 20 days) Novadex(20 mg ed 30 days)

I choose tbol over dbol, because less water, very low androgenic rating (I very sensitive to acne and have male pattern baldness in my family), high anabolic rating

 

[Newman]

Andriol
(testosterone undecanoate)
"After you put some testosterone undecanoate in caster oil and propelyne glycol laurate, you´ll have a testosterone which is highly fat-soluble due to the (very large) undecanoate ester attached to it, and able to be absorbed through your small intestine via the lymphatic system.

http://www.steroid.com/Andriol.php

When I first noticed this thread, I thought it was another dippy "newbie scared of needles" type of thread, but having logged onto it, I'm glad I did.

I never really thought about how Andriol was made, all I knew was that it oral & that it wasn't 17aa & that it was expensive.

Now, after having read the steroid.com entry for it, I can't help but wonder whether there's any complicated chemical reactions required in introducing the test undecanoate powder to the castor oil & the propelyne glycol laurate???

If it's just a matter of mixing the 3 ingredients together, then encapsulating them, then any smart cookie can see the easy way past those minor hurdles...

 

[Newman]

I remember "Big Cat" writing about this GR upregulation and avoiding orals at the end of cycles. Gotta check the info again. Do you have data showing cortisol levels will be high immediately after the cycle as you say?

I thought that ALL AAS products will elevate cortisol levels after a cycle ends? (not just orals, but injectibles too)

Am I right about that?

 

[617ricky]

If you're OK with needles, I don't think taking Test Undecanoate orally would be a good idea.. I kno how studies vary, but here's something I just read.

Oral administration of testosterone undecanoate leads only to an absolute testosterone bioavailability of 6.83 +/- 3.32%.

That's a terrible absorption rate, vs. absorbing near 100% injected.

 

[0o0o0o]

When I first noticed this thread, I thought it was another dippy "newbie scared of needles" type of thread, but having logged onto it, I'm glad I did.

I never really thought about how Andriol was made, all I knew was that it oral & that it wasn't 17aa & that it was expensive.

Now, after having read the steroid.com entry for it, I can't help but wonder whether there's any complicated chemical reactions required in introducing the test undecanoate powder to the castor oil & the propelyne glycol laurate???

If it's just a matter of mixing the 3 ingredients together, then encapsulating them, then any smart cookie can see the easy way past those minor hurdles...

"The problem is that you´d need to be able to make sealed gel caps, not just the typical 2-part capsules most people throw steroid powder in." thats my 2 cent quote from that article



by far injectable test is the best bang for your buck

just not a reasonable thing for me to be doing in my situation

 

[iprimate]

It's not ideal. I said there are more effective ways.

However, I think the rapid loss after oral cycles has a lot to do with the drug clearing so quickly. Not saying GR upregulation can't have an effect. I remember "Big Cat" writing about this GR upregulation and avoiding orals at the end of cycles. Gotta check the info again. Do you have data showing cortisol levels will be high immediately after the cycle as you say?

Of course, if the TS wanted to avoid this he'd continue with the test undecanoate for a while after coming off the 17aa.

This idea of "rapid [muscle] loss after [an] oral cycle" has little basis in science, its just more "brolore". Most people that use orals only don't use an AI and consequently retain water. When their cycle ends they excrete the water and their weight drops -- rapidly. This is the likely cause of the sudden weight decrease. If you use an AI on-cycle you won't bloat and your weight will stay the same when the cycle ends. Continuing the use of the AI for two weeks after the cycle will increase your endogenous testosterone levels, this will offset some of the excess cortisol.

The notion that gains from orals don't last is entirely brolore -- logic and experience tells otherwise. It makes no difference to androgen receptors whether the steroid was administered parenterally or orally. Also, my friends cattle tend to rely on orals because they are easier to come by. All of his cattle have retained all their muscle mass gains after two short oral only cycles. One bull experienced a 5kg gain in lean muscle mass from a 4 week cycle of Dianabol. That same bull experienced another 5kg gain from the second 4 week cycle. Another bull gained 4 kg of lean muscle mass from a 3 week cycle of Methasterone. The bulls were given an AI together with their supplements and continued with the AI for two weeks after the supplementation finished. No muscle loss occurred post-cycle. The gains may be modest but that they always actually are if you are measuring muscle and not water.

Use an AI and continue its use for at least two weeks post-cycle. Keep your oral only (or the oral component of a stack) short (i.e. less than 6 weeks) to spare your liver.

 

[iprimate]

I thought that ALL AAS products will elevate cortisol levels after a cycle ends? (not just orals, but injectibles too)

Am I right about that?

Yes of course you are right about that. Your androgen receptors and glucocorticoid receptors don't have a means of determining whether the steroid arrived via an oral or intramuscular route. It's just brolore. Brolore necessarily elevates the injectable to a higher level and exalts it with all sorts of magical mystical powers because it hurts and their is ritual using instruments that non-bros haven't been initiated into.

If oral AAS cause GR upregulation then so too do injectable AAS unless the claim is that somehow only C 17alpha alkylated steroids cause GR upregulation, and I have seen no evidence of this.

Danhaive and Rousseau published two important papers on androgens and the Glucocorticoid Receptor (GR). They found that androgens bind at a low affinity to the GR (i.e. androgens bind weakly to the GR) and they did not distinguish between between oral and parenteral AAS. Given this weak binding, any effect would require large doses of AAS. Owing to the toxicity of most orals you are more likely to get a (GR) functional dose from injectables. This would seem to argue against the idea of GR upregulation from orals on two conceptual grounds.


Danhaive PA, Rousseau GG 1986 "Binding of glucocorticoid antagonists to androgen and glucocorticoid hormone receptors in rat skeletal muscle". J Steroid Biochem 24:481–487

Danhaive PA, Rousseau GG 1988 "Evidence for sex-dependent anabolic response to androgenic steroids mediated by muscle glucocorticoid receptors in the rat". J Steroid Biochem 29:575–581

 

[Land]

This idea of "rapid [muscle] loss after [an] oral cycle" has little basis in science, its just more "brolore". Most people that use orals only don't use an AI and consequently retain water. When their cycle ends they excrete the water and their weight drops -- rapidly. This is the likely cause of the sudden weight decrease. If you use an AI on-cycle you won't bloat and your weight will stay the same when the cycle ends. Continuing the use of the AI for two weeks after the cycle will increase your endogenous testosterone levels, this will offset some of the excess cortisol.

The notion that gains from orals don't last is entirely brolore -- logic and experience tells otherwise. It makes no difference to androgen receptors whether the steroid was administered parenterally or orally. Also, my friends cattle tend to rely on orals because they are easier to come by. All of his cattle have retained all their muscle mass gains after two short oral only cycles. One bull experienced a 5kg gain in lean muscle mass from a 4 week cycle of Dianabol. That same bull experienced another 5kg gain from the second 4 week cycle. Another bull gained 4 kg of lean muscle mass from a 3 week cycle of Methasterone. The bulls were given an AI together with their supplements and continued with the AI for two weeks after the supplementation finished. No muscle loss occurred post-cycle. The gains may be modest but that they always actually are if you are measuring muscle and not water.

Use an AI and continue its use for at least two weeks post-cycle. Keep your oral only (or the oral component of a stack) short (i.e. less than 6 weeks) to spare your liver.

Bull #1 gained and retained 19.8 lbs of lean muscle mass in two short oral cycles? And you call this modest gains?

 

[iprimate]

Bull #1 gained and retained 19.8 lbs of lean muscle mass in two short oral cycles? And you call this modest gains?

Well Bull #1 started from a low base with a prototypical ectomorphic build so the end product is modest -- he looked athletic rather than muscular. If he did two 8 week cycles using injectables weeks 1-8 and orals only weeks 1-4 he most likely would have put on another 10lbs of lean body mass.

 

[Newman]

"The problem is that you´d need to be able to make sealed gel caps, not just the typical 2-part capsules most people throw steroid powder in." thats my 2 cent quote from that article

Why couldn't a person just take it by the spoonful?

 

[Newman]

I would love to see an oral version of Equipoise.

Someone said that Proviron can harden up test gains.

Is that true?

 

[brisk walk]

At what dose?
Peace.

50 mg a day. I would take long breaks in between cycles......probably only did 2 cycles a year......never depended on gear for long periods of time. You could say my receptors were always fresh compared to guys who juice year round. Just my personal experience though!