Torn Rotator Cuff Ligaments (Help)

[RepZZ]

A couple days ago, I tore my supraspinatus 1.6cm and my subscapularis 2.4cm. (MRI readings)
They want surgery but I've dealt with Ortho surgeons in the past and I'm hesitant. The recovery would be 6 months before I could touch a weight and 1 year for full recovery. As an avid lifter, that would crush me but I want to make the best choice.

I'm starting BPC-157 and TB-500, GH and IGF. I got a Cortisone shot and I have more mobilization but very painful.

I asked about Stem cell treatment or PRP and the doc said it wont do anything.

Has anyone here had anything similar and what choice did you make (good/bad)?

* This was not a lifting accident. Did a small U-turn on a scooter and the back wheel hit some oil and slid out. I put my arm out to catch myself and hit the road hard. My shoulder immediately had intense sharp pain.

 

[Poonami]

Following this one. I had a botched shoulder replacement almost 5 months ago where doc said my rotator cuff was so frayed he tried his best to wrap it around the new joint. But it didn’t take. Now they want to do an old person replacement where they flip the ball and socket from the way God intended. Needless to say I’d rather find an alternative like yourself.

Unfortunately for me, BPC gives me awful anhedonia. So bad I get rather depressed. I don’t want to spend the kind of money required to go to Europe for stem cells unless it’s much cheaper now than last I looked. Hopefully you get some good replies. I’m 5 months post surgery and can’t lift my hand over head.

 

[Anabolix8]

Brutal injury. With traumatic tears that size, peptides, GH, PRP etc can help pain and tissue quality but they won’t reattach a torn tendon.
That’s why surgeons usually push repair early before retraction and atrophy set in.

If strength is still decent and the shoulder is stable, some lifters try aggressive rehab and live with it.
If you’ve already lost strength or the tendon is retracted on MRI, delaying surgery can hurt the final outcome.
For the second case, failed cuff after replacement is a different and much tougher situation. Definitely worth a second opinion from a sports shoulder specialist, not just a general ortho.

A couple days ago, I tore my supraspinatus 1.6cm and my subscapularis 2.4cm. (MRI readings)
They want surgery but I've dealt with Ortho surgeons in the past and I'm hesitant. The recovery would be 6 months before I could touch a weight and 1 year for full recovery. As an avid lifter, that would crush me but I want to make the best choice.

I'm starting BPC-157 and TB-500, GH and IGF. I got a Cortisone shot and I have more mobilization but very painful.

I asked about Stem cell treatment or PRP and the doc said it wont do anything.

Has anyone here had anything similar and what choice did you make (good/bad)?

* This was not a lifting accident. Did a small U-turn on a scooter and the back wheel hit some oil and slid out. I put my arm out to catch myself and hit the road hard. My shoulder immediately had intense sharp pain.

 

[RepZZ]

I agree that the longer I wait, the less tissue will be viable to re-attach. Not sure how long I have. I'm hoping anyone else has experience with this. Some surgeries are not worth doing. Some are.

Seems the one tendon is high grade tear and the other is moderate. Part of me feels some of the tear has been there. I had shoulder surgery on this shoulder 20 years ago and always had issues with it. I feel the accident tore it a bit more but if they go in,, not sure there will be much to re-attach anyway. I'm going to pay for a second opinion but I know many here have had shoulder injuries and surgeries. Part of the business unfortunately

 

[buck]

I tore my infraspinatus and supraspinatus tendons mostly off the bone lifting weights with the start of the damage probably 20 years before from a couple car wrecks.
After rehabbing it did not get better. Any real tear can't heal itself from my experience.
I have had really good experience with the right ortho. I deal with sports medicine orthos that deal with pro athletes.
I am back in the gym after a week doing what i can. The 4 months till i could touch a weight with their approval changed to at 6 weeks telling me not to go crazy as they knew i was already doing things, and as i was healing ahead of the curve which most people do that are healthy and eat right from my experience.

 

[Sectør]

If the doctor/surgeon is saying you need to do that, I’d probably follow their advice.

If surgery is needed and you don’t do it, it could heal weird and easily get reinjured, then you’d have to do the surgery anyways, except now the problem and recovery will be much worse

If you are determined on going the peptide route, I’d add KPV and Ara-290 to the list of what you’re already running

 

[MajinBoo]

If the doctor/surgeon is saying you need to do that, I’d probably follow their advice.

If surgery is needed and you don’t do it, it could heal weird and easily get reinjured, then you’d have to do the surgery anyways, except now the problem and recovery will be much worse

If you are determined on going the peptide route, I’d add KPV and Ara-290 to the list of what you’re already running

Does ARA-290 have any benefit in tendon healing? From what I have read it reduces inflamation but on the central nervous system and perharal nerves

 

[Sectør]

Does ARA-290 have any benefit in tendon healing? From what I have read it reduces inflamation but on the central nervous system and perharal nerves

It won’t repair the tendon, no

Like you said it helps with inflammation, likely will help with the pain from the tear, as well as any nerve irritation, and helps improve mitochondria function (inflammation increases mitochondria stress which decreases healing efficiency). The increased mitochondria function would lead to a better healing environment

So no it won’t heal the tendon directly but it will work synergistically with tb500+bpc157+kpv+ gh for maximum healing. You could even throw ss-31 into the list as well if you really want to go all in (since it also improves mitochondria function)

 

[Alzadosghost]

A couple days ago, I tore my supraspinatus 1.6cm and my subscapularis 2.4cm. (MRI readings)
They want surgery but I've dealt with Ortho surgeons in the past and I'm hesitant. The recovery would be 6 months before I could touch a weight and 1 year for full recovery. As an avid lifter, that would crush me but I want to make the best choice.

I'm starting BPC-157 and TB-500, GH and IGF. I got a Cortisone shot and I have more mobilization but very painful.

I asked about Stem cell treatment or PRP and the doc said it wont do anything.

Has anyone here had anything similar and what choice did you make (good/bad)?

* This was not a lifting accident. Did a small U-turn on a scooter and the back wheel hit some oil and slid out. I put my arm out to catch myself and hit the road hard. My shoulder immediately had intense sharp pain.

If you don’t get them fixed they will kit heal and they will eventually be full tears. Get em fixed. It’s the only chance you have.

 

[RepZZ]

I tore my infraspinatus and supraspinatus tendons mostly off the bone lifting weights with the start of the damage probably 20 years before from a couple car wrecks.
After rehabbing it did not get better. Any real tear can't heal itself from my experience.
I have had really good experience with the right ortho. I deal with sports medicine orthos that deal with pro athletes.
I am back in the gym after a week doing what i can. The 4 months till i could touch a weight with their approval changed to at 6 weeks telling me not to go crazy as they knew i was already doing things, and as i was healing ahead of the curve which most people do that are healthy and eat right from my experience.

The surgeon told me that the chance of the anchors coming out is very high if I attempt any lifting before 4-6 months. He said I can do physical therapy with those bands. I would essentially need to stop all upper body lifting for 4 months. Not even sure how I would shower, drive etc. I live alone. That adds to my issue. I appreciate the feed back as it helps me make a plan and move forward. I'm looking for a second opinion now to see if they agree. Based on the responses here, sounds like they will. I will need to find someone to help with lots regular household things but that's part of the process. Sucks because I am peaking at my bulk before starting a cut. I'm sitting at 265 pounds in decent shape. Lots of work to get there. Now its all down the drain. Thanks again for all the responses.

 

[hawkmoon]

When I tore my quads I was told waiting only a matter of days would make a difference and they start shortening almost immediately.
I was very lucky a good friend pointed me to a surgeon who did solid work and I was on the mend only 4 days after the accident.

I only did anavar during the immediate process along with my 300mg testosterone.
BPC was unavailable. GH was added later.

 

[RepZZ]

I'm researching now and finding that the failure rate (tendon pulls off the anchor) is very high for medium to large tears. The average fail rate is 43% and it goes to 90% fail rate if over 60 years old. I'm 54 years old.
I'm going to continue my research and see the second surgeon and ask about these failure rates. I have medium to large tear and the Cortisone shot has greatly improved mobility and pain. Nothing worse than going through all this and re-tear was most likely outcome.

Below is small to large tears. More data shows a much larger fail rate with large tears. I'm more confused than ever.

"No matter how technical the repair, failure rates climb with longer-term follow-up. A recent systematic review of rotator cuff repairs with minimum 9-year follow-up found retear rates between 27 and 50% after arthroscopic rotator cuff repair, with a pooled rate of 43% over 178 cases"

 

[hawkmoon]

I'm researching now and finding that the failure rate (tendon pulls off the anchor) is very high for medium to large tears. The average fail rate is 43% and it goes to 90% fail rate if over 60 years old. I'm 54 years old.
I'm going to continue my research and see the second surgeon and ask about these failure rates. I have medium to large tear and the Cortisone shot has greatly improved mobility and pain. Nothing worse than going through all this and re-tear was most likely outcome.

Below is small to large tears. More data shows a much larger fail rate with large tears. I'm more confused than ever.

"No matter how technical the repair, failure rates climb with longer-term follow-up. A recent systematic review of rotator cuff repairs with minimum 9-year follow-up found retear rates between 27 and 50% after arthroscopic rotator cuff repair, with a pooled rate of 43% over 178 cases"

I am not going to tell you what you should do, but I'd be careful with that data.

The biggest rate of re-tears is in the rotator cuff (relevant to you) but it's often due to the overall poor condition of the tissues.
It's not a matter of surgery causing re-tears per se - indeed there would be no re-tear unless the tendon is reattached, being nothing to tear again. In your case the injury was a fall, not a failure due to degraded tissues (I am assuming) so you might have a good chance of successful repair.

FWIW I had both quads tendons reattached in July 2022 and while not perfect, I train hard today and my size is close to where it was. I am 56.
My tendons did have calcification and tore completely off with a "frayed mop" detachment. Both kneecaps were surgically abraded to expose bleeding, living tissue and growth factors to the tendon and they were reattached, three anchors each kneecap with a Krackow suture. My rehab was aggressive. Your surgery would be more delicate and in a more difficult area with poor blood supply, but with a competent surgeon and structured recovery I would probably go that route.

Additionally be mindful that the cortisone will reduce inflammation and pain, but also can further weaken the tendons.

 

[pesty4077]

Following this one. I had a botched shoulder replacement almost 5 months ago where doc said my rotator cuff was so frayed he tried his best to wrap it around the new joint. But it didn’t take. Now they want to do an old person replacement where they flip the ball and socket from the way God intended. Needless to say I’d rather find an alternative like yourself.

Unfortunately for me, BPC gives me awful anhedonia. So bad I get rather depressed. I don’t want to spend the kind of money required to go to Europe for stem cells unless it’s much cheaper now than last I looked. Hopefully you get some good replies. I’m 5 months post surgery and can’t lift my hand over head.

What price you getting in Europe for stem cells and what country?

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

Bro, if you decide to do surgery, do not start the healing peptides until after the surgery. Running BPC / TB etc before the operation can hurt you, because, one it is not going to heal a tear that needs surgery, and it can actual impede how successful the surgery can be. As soon as you are done with the surgery start it up.

source is my cousin an Orthopedic surgeon and is big into lifting / supps / peptides etc. He has told of times where guys have used those peps prior to surgery and it has made the surgery more difficult surgeon to get the most favorable correction.

 

[Poonami]

What price you getting in Europe for stem cells and what country?

Honestly don’t even remember but I know it was more than I was willing to spend at the time. But that was probably 10 years ago and a totally different injury. Perhaps I should search it out again.

 

[pesty4077]

Honestly don’t even remember but I know it was more than I was willing to spend at the time. But that was probably 10 years ago and a totally different injury. Perhaps I should search it out again.

Check Turkey (Istanbul). They have real good prices there. I been looking into it.

 

[buck]

The surgeon told me that the chance of the anchors coming out is very high if I attempt any lifting before 4-6 months. He said I can do physical therapy with those bands. I would essentially need to stop all upper body lifting for 4 months. Not even sure how I would shower, drive etc. I live alone. That adds to my issue. I appreciate the feed back as it helps me make a plan and move forward. I'm looking for a second opinion now to see if they agree. Based on the responses here, sounds like they will. I will need to find someone to help with lots regular household things but that's part of the process. Sucks because I am peaking at my bulk before starting a cut. I'm sitting at 265 pounds in decent shape. Lots of work to get there. Now its all down the drain. Thanks again for all the responses.

Surgeon told me it would be 12 months before the tendon was completely anchored in. I was back to 100% on the bench in 8 months. They sutured me down with thread. Think they use screws these days which is more secure.. Drs alway tell people about worse case scenarios in my experience. And give the guy that smokes and has medical conditions the same recover dates as healthy people. I quit using a sling within the week as the Dr said if i was not in pain i did not need it. It was just so people would not grab me by the arm accidentally. Dr's give out advice as if people are an idiot and don't have any common sense. But then they are covered when they deal with idiots.
I went home the day after my surgury, sent the wife to work and had a 3 course Indian meal made when she got home. I could still grip things when in a sling and cut stuff with the other hand. Wiping my butt with my other hand was a learning experience but that didn't last long. My surgeon said to continue working ou as long as i did not stress the arm that was repaired. Numerous studies show quicker healing and less atrophy when this is done. As nerves are stills simulated in the recovering arm. I did 1 arm benches, rows, pulldowns with little bitty weights to start and went from there. Was back to work as a journeyman machinist a week after the surgury as i used my good arm to do all the lifting. Branch Warren as well as others have torn tendons off the bone and been back on stage in a few months. We all have out own comfort zones.

 

[RepZZ]

I am not going to tell you what you should do, but I'd be careful with that data.

The biggest rate of re-tears is in the rotator cuff (relevant to you) but it's often due to the overall poor condition of the tissues.
It's not a matter of surgery causing re-tears per se - indeed there would be no re-tear unless the tendon is reattached, being nothing to tear again. In your case the injury was a fall, not a failure due to degraded tissues (I am assuming) so you might have a good chance of successful repair.

FWIW I had both quads tendons reattached in July 2022 and while not perfect, I train hard today and my size is close to where it was. I am 56.
My tendons did have calcification and tore completely off with a "frayed mop" detachment. Both kneecaps were surgically abraded to expose bleeding, living tissue and growth factors to the tendon and they were reattached, three anchors each kneecap with a Krackow suture. My rehab was aggressive. Your surgery would be more delicate and in a more difficult area with poor blood supply, but with a competent surgeon and structured recovery I would probably go that route.

Additionally be mindful that the cortisone will reduce inflammation and pain, but also can further weaken the tendons.

Much appreciate the feedback. Sorry you went through that. I'm getting my second opinion soon. Thanks!!

 

[RepZZ]

Surgeon told me it would be 12 months before the tendon was completely anchored in. I was back to 100% on the bench in 8 months. They sutured me down with thread. Think they use screws these days which is more secure.. Drs alway tell people about worse case scenarios in my experience. And give the guy that smokes and has medical conditions the same recover dates as healthy people. I quit using a sling within the week as the Dr said if i was not in pain i did not need it. It was just so people would not grab me by the arm accidentally. Dr's give out advice as if people are an idiot and don't have any common sense. But then they are covered when they deal with idiots.
I went home the day after my surgury, sent the wife to work and had a 3 course Indian meal made when she got home. I could still grip things when in a sling and cut stuff with the other hand. Wiping my butt with my other hand was a learning experience but that didn't last long. My surgeon said to continue working ou as long as i did not stress the arm that was repaired. Numerous studies show quicker healing and less atrophy when this is done. As nerves are stills simulated in the recovering arm. I did 1 arm benches, rows, pulldowns with little bitty weights to start and went from there. Was back to work as a journeyman machinist a week after the surgury as i used my good arm to do all the lifting. Branch Warren as well as others have torn tendons off the bone and been back on stage in a few months. We all have out own comfort zones.

Wow, thanks for that. Makes me feel much better. I'm researching the techniques with highest rates of success. I'm in Thailand, so I want to make sure the surgeons here are keeping up with the best technique (screws, double knot, etc). I live alone and not sure how I'll manage some things but like anything,, I'll figure it out. Yes, its my dominate hand and keep thinking, how am I gonna wipe my ass now, lol