Training back "thickness" with negatives.

witefall · Oct 6, 2011

Finally got a solid, reliable training partner and just lucked out that we are very close with strength. Very soon will start doing some negative focused training. Back width is easy choice as we are going to do pullups just using plates hanging on a belt, doing negative rep and partner assisting a bit holding feet for positive of the reps.

We have been looking for an excercise to use for back thickness where we can focus on the negative but not put lower back or training partner in a dangerous position.

Just going to do ONE exercise for width and ONE exercise for thickness. So need to find a suitable thickness excercise to work the negative.

Here is our potential list but some downsided with each one.
1) Deadlift the BB for positive and then negative row it back down. I'm just not sure if enough concentric being worked this way b/c a heavy negative BB row is still a light concentric deadlift.

2) One arm DB row using some body english for positive and negative row it down but worried about "jerking" on the shoulder joint when changing direction of weight.

3) A seated cable WG bar row with partner helping the cable on the concentric but I don't know if this is going to be too taxing on the spotter and an awkward position for spotter?

4) A one arm at a time seated Hammer Row machine with partner helping on concentric (since only one arm, shouldn't be as heavy or taxing on partner). We are kind of leaning towards doing this...just seems kinda "fluff" since we've been doing BB rows and deads and such.

Any suggestions from this list for back thickness negative focus or suggestions not on this list would be very much appreciated!!!!

waynaferd · Oct 6, 2011

What about laying face down on an incline bench and doing heavy DB rows? Jay Cutler mentioned it awhile back in MD, and I must say, seems effective for heavy weight.

witefall · Oct 7, 2011

waynaferd said:
What about laying face down on an incline bench and doing heavy DB rows? Jay Cutler mentioned it awhile back in MD, and I must say, seems effective for heavy weight.

I'm trying to picture this, but just not following you. How is the concentric lighter than the negative?

Anyone else have any back thickness suggestions that work the eccentric? Emeric?

waynaferd · Oct 7, 2011

IDK...I guess I misunderstood.....my bad!!

Tom · Oct 7, 2011

maybe you could try seated cable rows. your training partner could help get the handles in starting position from behind and then you could stretch out the negative. lol... might look a little gay but then i never care about what other gym people think if i'm getting results.

jerseystepup · Oct 8, 2011

Tom said:
maybe you could try seated cable rows. your training partner could help get the handles in starting position from behind and then you could stretch out the negative. lol... might look a little gay but then i never care about what other gym people think if i'm getting results.

Ive been doing this one with my training partner for a few weeks now... we call it the "seated row reach around"

ScottMcD1 · Oct 8, 2011

If you aren't against using machines you could use any of the hammer strength or similar row machines that allow a single arm to be worked at once(easier on your spotter)

Training- Dorian Yates (Back) - YouTube

Like Dorian uses at the end here.

witefall · Oct 8, 2011

ScottMcD1 said:
If you aren't against using machines you could use any of the hammer strength or similar row machines that allow a single arm to be worked at once(easier on your spotter)

Training- Dorian Yates (Back) - YouTube

Like Dorian uses at the end here.

First, thanks for posting the video! So far my training partner and I are considering doing just that, seated hammer row machine, one arm at a time, with partner "pushing" some on the concentric and then letting go on eccentric. It's the only way we can really think of so far that would work, not look gay, and not put either of us in a dangerous position.

We start the negative program next week, so if nothing else comes up, we will do this. Although I know emeric or daunte or phil probably has something better that they just aren't posting up

)

Again, thanks for video post.

maldorf · Oct 8, 2011

What works for me in getting thickness is doing bent over rows. If you want to have emphasis on the negative then what you do is pull the weight up as fast as you normally would, but then when you come down for the negative you will resist gravity and lower it very slowly. Find a caedence that works for you. This will absolutely blast your back. You might take about 5 seconds or so to let the bar come down before you immediately pull it back up once it hits the bottom of the movement. The time under tension is mostly in the negative. Even though youre not using the really heavy weights you would if you were doing just a negative, the effect is just about as great and you dont get the increase chance of injuries that come with the negatives.

w8tlifterty · Oct 8, 2011

maldorf said:
What works for me in getting thickness is doing bent over rows. If you want to have emphasis on the negative then what you do is pull the weight up as fast as you normally would, but then when you come down for the negative you will resist gravity and lower it very slowly. Find a caedence that works for you. This will absolutely blast your back. You might take about 5 seconds or so to let the bar come down before you immediately pull it back up once it hits the bottom of the movement. The time under tension is mostly in the negative. Even though youre not using the really heavy weights you would if you were doing just a negative, the effect is just about as great and you dont get the increase chance of injuries that come with the negatives.

Other than conventional deads and pullups, this is my favorite movement for back. The negatives are torture. Mal, I always appreciate when you post. Tons of knowledge...

maldorf · Oct 8, 2011

w8tlifterty said:
Other than conventional deads and pullups, this is my favorite movement for back. The negatives are torture. Mal, I always appreciate when you post. Tons of knowledge...

I really like doing lifts in that manner, and it takes great determination to do so. Its not easy. The best thing about it is that you sometimes even end up lowering the weight you use and still get more out of the movement and dont have to worry about injuries. Its easier on your joints. Doing it on squats is a bitch. I would go down really slow and to make it even more effective do a pause at the very bottom of the movement for a count of 5 or so and then come up. I do that too on the bent over rows where I hold the bar at my waist at the top of the movement for a count of 5 or so and then come down really slow.

rodreego54 · Oct 8, 2011

waynaferd said:
What about laying face down on an incline bench and doing heavy DB rows? Jay Cutler mentioned it awhile back in MD, and I must say, seems effective for heavy weight.

These work good!