Training fasted; what’s your experience?

[qbkilla]

I hate it. The moment the evidence became overwhelming that there were no real fat loss advantages to training fasted, I decided never again. Less strength, energy, and pumps. I don't need a huge meal before training but a bit of protein and carbs + fats and I'm better off.

Some people clearly love it as evidenced in this thread though, so do whatever you feel better doing.

Can you explain how training fasted does not burn more fat? Not trying to argue but understand. Say I eat 1k calories per day and do cardio at 10am. I can eat my 1k calories at 9:59am ( right before cardio) or at 10pm 12 hours later. How will results be the same? Won't the cardio be burning glucose in my blood if I eat at 9:59am before cardio? Therefore fat stores will not be touched? And my insulin levels will be higher making fat loss less optimal?

If you have an article that explains it definitely link me. Sure cico is important overall but I just cant see how insulin levels will not affect how well the cardio mobilized and burns fat.

 

[NEMSZ]

Glycogen stores will be lower.

Protein synthesis will be decreased.

Cortisol will be higher.

Protein breakdown more evident.

Depends how you’re eating bro...

A last meal of the night for me can consist of;

2 cups rice
1 cup veggies w/ 1-2 tablespoons of Olive oil and salt (salts are always added to meals anyway)
8-10oz Chicken Breast
1 large banana

I don’t care who you are, you’re not burning through even 1/8th of that while you sleep...

Problem of training fasted and pumps can be solved with some salts added to your water preworkout...

The whole thing with studies about pre/intra nutrition means dick with real world results being sub-par at best.. I’ve spent the extra $80 a month on “high quality” intra drinks some of the names touted in this thread had to offer and noticed I was only having a lighter pocket... In real world results I guarantee it doesn’t even account for 1% extra muscle.. Again, if it was such a higher percentage difference then where is everyone with the results putting on 10-20lbs+ of muscle just by adding in this variable? No one on this forum from beginner to pro is making those kind of results...

Now that being said, training fasted is a PREFERENCE and I understand some people not being used to it and feeling bad or feeling better with a LIGHT “meal” right before or and intra drink cause they don’t feel that hypo feeling (you eventually adapt to this) or whatever the case is for the individual...

Everyone should do what they feel better with..But to say you can’t be strong or build muscle training fasted is silly, no one is burning through a large meal full of nutrients in their sleep.. Now DEFINITELY a good post workout meal is needed, but that’s a given..

 

[qbkilla]

Very good points. I signed on with a trainer who used to post here (not sure if he still does). His initial plan consisted of 6 scoops of his intra workout mix. Lmao.

 

[buck]

As the body has hundreds of grams of stored carbs on board. There should be plenty of fuel for training. Of course how people feel affects their training. People that don't mind being hungry will probably train better fasted then those that don't.

 

[NEMSZ]

Very good points. I signed on with a trainer who used to post here (not sure if he still does). His initial plan consisted of 6 scoops of his intra workout mix. Lmao.

Gee I wonder why

Reminds me of another guy on this board who’s very smart but he recommends to be the healthiest and have the most optimal results on TRT etc you NEED $100 a month worth (the dosage he recommends to everyone lol) of a product coincidentally HE sells lmao...

People read studies like the one above about 30% better protein synthesis blah blah blah and they immediately think “30% more muscle”.. On a 200lb man 30% more muscle is 60 fucking pounds lol...

There’s diminishing returns with everything in the body, we’ve seen hundreds of experienced guys on here post they got no better results on 3g Test than they did 1g Test... So same thing goes for protein synthesis I believe, you can optimize it, but 30% more protein synthesis for 2lbs of extra muscle at the end of the year at the expense of $1,000+ spent in that time frame?!

No thanks bro, I’d rather go on a nice vacation lol

 

[buzzbomb138]

Whey and gatorade isnt a real meal? lol...

lol it was gatorade and EAAs, but no i dont consider a full on meal, just my intra drink

as for the whey iso and pineapple juice i drink before going to the gym i think ur referring to, its like 150 cals total lol, i dont consider 150 cals a real meal either lol

 

[qbkilla]

I have made great strength gains training fasted in the AM, but I attribute that to something else

People who train fasted usually train in the morning. I have much higher energy at 5am after an energy drink than I do at 6pm after a day of work


So while I may be stronger had I had some protein and carbs before lifting, lifting at 5am fasted I may be stronger than lifting at 6pm full of protein and carbs

Anyonelse agree that we are much weaker as the day goes on especially if we work? Now working until 4, napping for 4 hours, then eating and hitting the gym may be ideal for strength, but then you can't sleep at night.

 

[Elvia1023]

Just do what works for you. My stance is similar to Nothuman's on this subject. There can be many variables though. Even if taken in prebed the last meal you consumed before fasted training (morning training in this example) is a massive variable. Is fasting for 16 hours then training optimal for muscle gains... I don't think so... again though many variables including what you eat the rest of the day. Beastmode makes an excellent point about total daily/weekly calories. Your energy balance is the most important thing BY FAR in all of this. Nevertheless I prefer to have a steady supply of calories and train non fasted but there is no right/wrong with any of this.

Quite often with bodybuilding subjects it's a spectrum of grey and not black and white like many often post. A little comment on intra products... obviously there are bullshitters all over and guys wanting to me make as much money as possible. However for me they make a huge difference but again there are many variables to this. I benefit in no way financially from stating I love intra shakers and some hbcd's and eaa's benefit my training and recovery. I couldn't care less if guys think they are a rip off or don't buy them. Plus I eat before and after training as well but overall I notice a big benefit. Now if you are eating 6 (an example) good meals everyday of course you don't need intra shakes. No one needs them but I personally will continue using them.

I know many who feel mentally sharper and full of clean energy when they train fasted so it obviously works for them. I noticed the same but in regards to power output and strength endurance I get much better results when full especially with carbs in the mix.

 

[USMuscle9403]

If you like training fasted, then train fasted. If you don't, then don't. Training fasted does not imbue one with magically attained muscle overnight, nor does it strip it off with great prejudice. In the end, it doesn't matter a whole shittin lot.

If it works, do it. If it doesn't work, don't do it.

Sometimes I train fasted, sometimes I don't. It's just whatever makes my balls tingle on any given day.

 

[Elvia1023]

Whey and gatorade isnt a real meal? lol...

Buzzbomb having whey and pineapple juice pre workout means you are definitely not fasted. That's a nice sugar boost pre workout. Then you have gatorade and eaa's intra so again it counts as a real meal it's just not food. Drinks are still calories and the whole point of being fasted as in training is not consuming calories (food or drink).

Try not consuming anything (apart from water) and see how you feel when training. I should add what you are doing now is fine but you should feel much different training without that preworkout meal.

 

[Elvia1023]

lol it was gatorade and EAAs, but no i dont consider a full on meal, just my intra drink

as for the whey iso and pineapple juice i drink before going to the gym i think ur referring to, its like 150 cals total lol, i dont consider 150 cals a real meal either lol

I get your point but it is a meal/snack or whatever you want to call it. You may not add it to your meals of the day but it's definitely not fasted. The moment you have any cals pre workout you are no longer fasted. So unless you consume nothing and train your comment on fasted training is mute in a sense. Again what you are doing is fine but can't be counted towards how you feel about fasted training because you aren't fasted. I bet you would feel a difference not having those shakes. It's all silly at the end of the day but your post definitely stood out. As posted guys just do what you want. But if you want to know how you truly feel training fasted you need to have no calories. Even 25g carbs can make a massive difference when fasted.

 

[Swifto]

Depends how you’re eating bro...

A last meal of the night for me can consist of;

2 cups rice
1 cup veggies w/ 1-2 tablespoons of Olive oil and salt (salts are always added to meals anyway)
8-10oz Chicken Breast
1 large banana

I don’t care who you are, you’re not burning through even 1/8th of that while you sleep...

Problem of training fasted and pumps can be solved with some salts added to your water preworkout...

The whole thing with studies about pre/intra nutrition means dick with real world results being sub-par at best.. I’ve spent the extra $80 a month on “high quality” intra drinks some of the names touted in this thread had to offer and noticed I was only having a lighter pocket... In real world results I guarantee it doesn’t even account for 1% extra muscle.. Again, if it was such a higher percentage difference then where is everyone with the results putting on 10-20lbs+ of muscle just by adding in this variable? No one on this forum from beginner to pro is making those kind of results...

Now that being said, training fasted is a PREFERENCE and I understand some people not being used to it and feeling bad or feeling better with a LIGHT “meal” right before or and intra drink cause they don’t feel that hypo feeling (you eventually adapt to this) or whatever the case is for the individual...

Everyone should do what they feel better with..But to say you can’t be strong or build muscle training fasted is silly, no one is burning through a large meal full of nutrients in their sleep.. Now DEFINITELY a good post workout meal is needed, but that’s a given..

I never said that. I said its not optimal for muscle growth and strength progress.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27550719

Eur J Sport Sci. 2017 Mar;17(2):200-207. doi: 10.1080/17461391.2016.1223173. Epub 2016 Aug 22.

Time-restricted feeding in young men performing resistance training: A randomized controlled trial.

Tinsley GM1, Forsse JS2, Butler NK2, Paoli A3, Bane AA2, La Bounty PM4, Morgan GB5, Grandjean PW2.
Author information
Abstract
A randomized controlled trial was conducted to examine eight weeks of resistance training (RT) with and without time-restricted feeding (TRF) in order to assess nutrient intake and changes in body composition and muscular strength in young recreationally active males. The TRF programme consisted of consuming all calories within a four-hour period of time for four days per week, but included no limitations on quantities or types of foods consumed. The RT programme was performed three days per week and consisted of alternating upper and lower body workouts. For each exercise, four sets leading to muscular failure between 8 and 12 repetitions were employed. Research visits were conducted at baseline, four, and eight weeks after study commencement. Measurements of total body composition by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry and muscle cross-sectional area by ultrasound were obtained. Upper and lower body strength and endurance were assessed, and four-day dietary records were collected. TRF reduced energy intake by ∼650 kcal per day of TRF, but did not affect total body composition within the duration of the study. Cross-sectional area of the biceps brachii and rectus femoris increased in both groups. Effect size data indicate a gain in lean soft tissue in the group that performed RT without TRF (+2.3 kg, d = 0.25). Upper and lower body strength and lower body muscular endurance increased in both groups, but effect sizes demonstrate greater improvements in the TRF group. Overall, TRF reduced energy intake and did not adversely affect lean mass retention or muscular improvements with short-term RT in young males.

 

[beastmode121]

I never said that. I said its not optimal for muscle growth and strength progress.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27550719

Eur J Sport Sci. 2017 Mar;17(2):200-207. doi: 10.1080/17461391.2016.1223173. Epub 2016 Aug 22.

Time-restricted feeding in young men performing resistance training: A randomized controlled trial.

Tinsley GM1, Forsse JS2, Butler NK2, Paoli A3, Bane AA2, La Bounty PM4, Morgan GB5, Grandjean PW2.
Author information
Abstract
A randomized controlled trial was conducted to examine eight weeks of resistance training (RT) with and without time-restricted feeding (TRF) in order to assess nutrient intake and changes in body composition and muscular strength in young recreationally active males. The TRF programme consisted of consuming all calories within a four-hour period of time for four days per week, but included no limitations on quantities or types of foods consumed. The RT programme was performed three days per week and consisted of alternating upper and lower body workouts. For each exercise, four sets leading to muscular failure between 8 and 12 repetitions were employed. Research visits were conducted at baseline, four, and eight weeks after study commencement. Measurements of total body composition by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry and muscle cross-sectional area by ultrasound were obtained. Upper and lower body strength and endurance were assessed, and four-day dietary records were collected. TRF reduced energy intake by ∼650 kcal per day of TRF, but did not affect total body composition within the duration of the study. Cross-sectional area of the biceps brachii and rectus femoris increased in both groups. Effect size data indicate a gain in lean soft tissue in the group that performed RT without TRF (+2.3 kg, d = 0.25). Upper and lower body strength and lower body muscular endurance increased in both groups, but effect sizes demonstrate greater improvements in the TRF group. Overall, TRF reduced energy intake and did not adversely affect lean mass retention or muscular improvements with short-term RT in young males.

TRF did not adversely affect lean mass retention or muscular improvement.

Sounds good


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[beastmode121]

I hate it. The moment the evidence became overwhelming that there were no real fat loss advantages to training fasted, I decided never again. Less strength, energy, and pumps. I don't need a huge meal before training but a bit of protein and carbs + fats and I'm better off.

Some people clearly love it as evidenced in this thread though, so do whatever you feel better doing.

THIS IS NOT if you train fasted; you burn more fat thread.

This is a if you train fasted; will it slow down muscle development...

But to each his own. I love training fasted; my mind isn’t foggy and I’m focused


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LK3]

Just do what works for you. My stance is similar to Nothuman's on this subject. There can be many variables though. Even if taken in prebed the last meal you consumed before fasted training (morning training in this example) is a massive variable. Is fasting for 16 hours then training optimal for muscle gains... I don't think so... again though many variables including what you eat the rest of the day. Beastmode makes an excellent point about total daily/weekly calories. Your energy balance is the most important thing BY FAR in all of this. Nevertheless I prefer to have a steady supply of calories and train non fasted but there is no right/wrong with any of this.

Quite often with bodybuilding subjects it's a spectrum of grey and not black and white like many often post. A little comment on intra products... obviously there are bullshitters all over and guys wanting to me make as much money as possible. However for me they make a huge difference but again there are many variables to this. I benefit in no way financially from stating I love intra shakers and some hbcd's and eaa's benefit my training and recovery. I couldn't care less if guys think they are a rip off or don't buy them. Plus I eat before and after training as well but overall I notice a big benefit. Now if you are eating 6 (an example) good meals everyday of course you don't need intra shakes. No one needs them but I personally will continue using them.

I know many who feel mentally sharper and full of clean energy when they train fasted so it obviously works for them. I noticed the same but in regards to power output and strength endurance I get much better results when full especially with carbs in the mix.

good points bro!

ill also add that time n place in your life also might be a big part of this.

right now, its been so long that i have gotten used to training fasted that fed is weird and im not sure i can give an unbiased poitn of view without thinking heavily about the past.

your intra comment made me think about this! lol
more then a few years ago now i LOVED intra shakes!
more thinking made me realize that when i did the intra i was also doing pre and post at the very least.

other times when i was my biggest i had eaten several big meals by gym time and was never fasted.

i think the answer is best is as usual not static, there are times when some "other" method might be best for you.

maybe just try n stay open to that!

 

[Elvia1023]

good points bro!

ill also add that time n place in your life also might be a big part of this.

right now, its been so long that i have gotten used to training fasted that fed is weird and im not sure i can give an unbiased poitn of view without thinking heavily about the past.

your intra comment made me think about this! lol
more then a few years ago now i LOVED intra shakes!
more thinking made me realize that when i did the intra i was also doing pre and post at the very least.

other times when i was my biggest i had eaten several big meals by gym time and was never fasted.

i think the answer is best is as usual not static, there are times when some "other" method might be best for you.

maybe just try n stay open to that!

Matey I stay open to everything. Literally every training/diet (within reason) can work as long as someone is consistent within that plan. Some guys eat 2 meals per day and fast and others eat 8 around the clock. As I posted it's different shades of grey and not black and white. So many guys think it has to be one way or the other. If you have a, b and c and c works then a and b must not work. People over complicate this stuff and everyone is different. Moreover, different things work and different times and our bodies and mind change over time. As you posted the place in your life is a fundamental variable and some guys schedules make a certain way of eating/training optimal. I like high fairly high volume/frequency training but a guy who just started working 60 hours in a very active job outside would likely do much better following a low volume/frequency approach.

THIS IS NOT if you train fasted; you burn more fat thread.

This is a if you train fasted; will it slow down muscle development...

But to each his own. I love training fasted; my mind isn’t foggy and I’m focused


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Firstly, it's blatantly obvious from my mates, this thread and other threads that many love training fasted and it's the best way for them. I would never argue that as it would be silly as you have loads of guys who love training fasted. If I were to answer your question I would state if the person done everything right nutritionally away from training then of course it would not slow down muscle development. However, do I think training fasted is optimal for muscle development... not at all. That doesn't mean I think it's wrong or inferior as everyone prefers to eat a certain way.

If a guy can get all their macros in say a 12 hour window and they prefer that to eating around the clock I don't see why they are short changing themselves. I just think fasting in general makes it harder to get those calories in as your window of time is much shorter. My digestion is also negatively effected as I am trying to fit a lot of calories in a shorter time period. Others seem to thrive eating that way though but I personally prefer smaller frequent meals around the clock if I were trying to get the best possible results.

 

[buzzbomb138]

I get your point but it is a meal/snack or whatever you want to call it. You may not add it to your meals of the day but it's definitely not fasted. The moment you have any cals pre workout you are no longer fasted. So unless you consume nothing and train your comment on fasted training is mute in a sense. Again what you are doing is fine but can't be counted towards how you feel about fasted training because you aren't fasted. I bet you would feel a difference not having those shakes. It's all silly at the end of the day but your post definitely stood out. As posted guys just do what you want. But if you want to know how you truly feel training fasted you need to have no calories. Even 25g carbs can make a massive difference when fasted.

lol ya totally, ur right its not fasted at all, and i said that in my OP. but its far from an actual meal as i consider it, but yes it doesnt count as training completely fasted.

i guess my point was that u can have something small in u if u gotta train early, i dont see the point in training completely fasted when u can have something small pre wo like i do to keep BS levels up and available aminos for ur working muscles. ive never tried training completely fasted so yes i cant speak to that as i dont see it as a good idea. maybe ill give it a try to see if my lil pre wo snack makes a difference or not.

 

[kingpeon]

I've been training fasted for years.

I just can't tolerate any food in my system while training hard. Being fat adapted helps and so does a handful of aminos before training.

Tons of energy and no complaints with my rate of muscle growth.

 

[qbkilla]

I never said that. I said its not optimal for muscle growth and strength progress.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27550719

Eur J Sport Sci. 2017 Mar;17(2):200-207. doi: 10.1080/17461391.2016.1223173. Epub 2016 Aug 22.

Time-restricted feeding in young men performing resistance training: A randomized controlled trial.

Tinsley GM1, Forsse JS2, Butler NK2, Paoli A3, Bane AA2, La Bounty PM4, Morgan GB5, Grandjean PW2.
Author information
Abstract
A randomized controlled trial was conducted to examine eight weeks of resistance training (RT) with and without time-restricted feeding (TRF) in order to assess nutrient intake and changes in body composition and muscular strength in young recreationally active males. The TRF programme consisted of consuming all calories within a four-hour period of time for four days per week, but included no limitations on quantities or types of foods consumed. The RT programme was performed three days per week and consisted of alternating upper and lower body workouts. For each exercise, four sets leading to muscular failure between 8 and 12 repetitions were employed. Research visits were conducted at baseline, four, and eight weeks after study commencement. Measurements of total body composition by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry and muscle cross-sectional area by ultrasound were obtained. Upper and lower body strength and endurance were assessed, and four-day dietary records were collected. TRF reduced energy intake by ∼650 kcal per day of TRF, but did not affect total body composition within the duration of the study. Cross-sectional area of the biceps brachii and rectus femoris increased in both groups. Effect size data indicate a gain in lean soft tissue in the group that performed RT without TRF (+2.3 kg, d = 0.25). Upper and lower body strength and lower body muscular endurance increased in both groups, but effect sizes demonstrate greater improvements in the TRF group. Overall, TRF reduced energy intake and did not adversely affect lean mass retention or muscular improvements with short-term RT in young males.

Reading this it looks like all this study showed was,,,that eating all your daily calories within a small window produced greater muscle gain (at lower calories) than eating your calories all day long, correct? It doesn't say if they ate the calories pre-workout, post-workout, or at some other time during the day. So this would be a good argument for intermittent fasting (aka don't eat every few hours, fast most of the day).

Is there a larger analysis of this study that shows when they ate the calories?

 

[astrosfan123]

I think a lot train fasted due to not wanting to cram a meal in before a 5AM workout which makes tons of sense. I was the one that was eating light and still not allowing enough time to digest so then I just stopped having a meal and went bcaa only. It was until the day I read about someone saying not to worry about cramming one in and just have some carb powders and aminos. I will say I felt night and day difference with eaa/karbolyn drink. 1.5L water mix start drinking on way to gym and the pumps and recovery were constant workout to workout. I gym afternoon now after day shift at work so I always have time and not rushed to get some cream of rice/whey and some fruit.