Training For Strength vs Training For Size

[JUICEDUP3]

i always get bigger and stronger at same time... dnt really make since to me. if your doing heavy ass weight for low reps ur gonna get bigger and stronger imo..

 

[Adrenaline Rush]

i think its always a great debate...I think Scott Abel is a genius and knows what he is talking about..>Similarly, a guy like Dante is a genius too..Which one do you choose? I guess you try both and make your own decision

 

[maldorf]

When comparing one person to another you cannot assume that the bigger more muscular guy is going to be stronger, as long as both are serious lifters. Your chances are better of course going with the bigger guy, but you cannot assume. Many a time Ive seen little guys outlift bigger men in the gym. I think it all comes down to how your built/genetics.

Now if you look at a person, usually in order to gain significant strength youre going to have to gain muscle mass and get bigger. There is that short time when you first start lifting that you gain strength really fast, but thats just due to your body learning the motion and improving efficiency of the movement by using your nervous system better.

 

[curls-for-girls]

Thanks for the great insight everyone. Many valid points brought up.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I could break this down all day long but lets make this very simple shall we...


1) First of all lets take every guy with shitty genetics for musclebuilding/bodybuilding that has great genetics for absolute strength out of the equation because thats what people build their arguments on all the time. DO YOU LOOK LIKE JAY CUTLER? WHY NOT? YOU TRAIN LIKE HIM! SOME OF YOU JUICE TO THE HIGH HEAVENS! How come you dont look like Jay Cutler then? Because you dont have the bodybuilding genetics of Jay Cutler, just like that powerlifter over there who can squat bench and deadlift a house can only build muscle mass to what his MOM and POP's unique genetics allow him to do so. So next time you build your argument on that above base take yourself to task also, look in the mirror and ask why your physique gets absolutely smoked by guys that you train and juice like.

2) Simple hypothetical question for you and im going to make it laughable by making it very high reps even to drive home the point.

Ronnie Coleman and Ronnie Colemans twin decide to start bodybuilding........

Ronnies twin decides to be somewhat comfortable and likes to stay in these ranges

Incline bench 135x185 for 8-12 reps for his career
military press 135 for 8-12 reps for his career
close grip bench press 135x185 for 8-12 reps for his career
lat pulldowns 150 for 8-12 reps for his career
deadlifts 135x185 for 8-12 reps for his career

standing calf raise 90 for 8-12 reps for his career
leg curl 75 for 8-12 reps for his career
squat 135x185 for 8-12 reps for his career
dumbell curl 20-30 for 8-12 reps for his career
reverse curl 25 for 8-12 reps for his career


Ronnie on the otherhand decides to go out of the confort zone and decides to push limits and accomplishes the following

Incline bench 405 for 15 reps
military press 335 for 15 reps
close grip bench press 415 for 15 reps
lat pulldowns 365 for 15 reps
deadlifts 550 for 15 reps


standing calf raise 600 for 15 reps
leg curl 240 for 20 reps
squat 550 for 20 reps deep
dumbell curl 100 for 15-20 reps
reverse curl 100 for 15-20 reps

Please tell me thru the adaptive process which twin is going to end up much bigger.........

3) Your unique genetics thru your mom and dad allow you to accomplish certain things in bodybuilding. If your mom and dad are Roseanne Barr and Jim Carrey let me be the first to tell you that most likely you are not going to be the next Sergio Oliva..... If your Mom and Dad are Lenda Murray and Lee Haney.....let me be the first to tell you that just about anything you do in bodybuilding training wise is going to build muscle mass.

but............. the absolute strongest YOU (yourself with your unique musclebuilding genetics) can make yourself in whatever rep range thru trial and error you find out is the most productive (20 reps, or maybe 15 reps, 12 reps, 8 reps whatever....) on safe progressive exercises is going to create the biggest YOU as a bodybuilder (again according to your unique musclebuilding genetics handed down from mom and pop)

So if you find out over time and chest workouts that you grow incredibly well from flat dumbell bench presses TAKE IT TO THE BANK THAT the day you can press 150 pound dumbells for 20 reps that your chest is going to be much thicker than if you decided for some weird reason to stay at 75 for 10 reps for the rest of your career.....because you were lazy or just wanted to train at 50% capacity

 

[dan525]

Another thing to consider is that many of the massive freaks may not appear as strong as they look because of injuries. I know several 280+ bodybuilders and powerlifters that used to rep 500 raw benches squat 7 plates for reps etc, but most of them are so beat up after a few years that they rarely go all out raw. Even many of the powerlifters have backed off on raw strength and spend more time using suits, shirts raps. THey may be handling heavier weight with equipment, but much of that is ytraining the central nervous system to handle that type of training.

 

[cal]

Lol. 550.

Sent from my Dell Streak using Tapatalk

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

....

 

[superiormatter]

IMO you train for either strength or size. Both will come but you will see more gains depending on your training. All of us have seen the guys who constantly bench press and the amount of weight they move is insane... but they pretty much stay the same size.

 

[growing1221]

You did see the word hypothetical right? I just threw up some random numbers, I didnt email Ronnie and say "hey ronnie what do you think you could get for 20 reps on the squat?"

But since Justin can get 16 with 500 YouTube - Justin Harris Squats 500lbs for 16reps!

Ill give Ronnie 550 for 20 hypothetically

He was correcting himself from his post earlier in the thread lol

 

[turbobusa]

Size and strenght arer related. That is why their is weight classes in powerlifting and oly lifting. You can focus on one or the other and some guys are naturaly strong and not very big. Just like some guys have large muscles and are not as strong as they look. Examples

Gene Rychlak: bench 1005 at a bodyweight of 345lbs
Scott Mendekson: 715 RAW 1019 with a suite. 275llbs
Ryan kenelly: 1074 at 350lbs

Ha I would like to see someone under 200lbs reach any of those number.

Oh and they will! When the those shirts get nitrous and turbo. Wonder what
they will think of next.

 

[maldorf]

How about a girl that would blow away most guys!!?

Kara Bohigian benched 402 lbs at a BW of 148lbs! She doesnt look that strong either. She is a freak of nature, not to mention hot as hell!

YouTube - Kara Bohigian 402 Bench at 148

**broken link removed**

 

[maldorf]

More of Kara: YouTube - Kara Bohigian Olympic Lifting

Olympic lifts after not lifting for a long while. I think some are just born strong!

Crazy standing military pressing. YouTube - KaraBohigian's Channel

 

[jack98]

i was real weak when i first started lifting. so i stayed in low rep ranges for all my compound lifts for years. and i made shitty gains in terms of gaining quality mass compared to using a high rep routine like i do now.

 

[NeverSoft]

Take a look around. The strongest guys are often the biggest. Not always, but most of the time.

Yeah, biggest mid sections and most body fat.

 

[musclehead33]

Can anyone say Stan Efferding?

yes but if i am not mistaken he had to totally change his training to compete in bodybuilding.when you train for strength you get compacted muscle bellies.we all know this.i know i aint tellin you nothin thomas.peace:star-:ars

 

[btech]

LOL whaaaaaat???

yes but if i am not mistaken he had to totally change his training to compete in bodybuilding.when you train for strength you get compacted muscle bellies.we all know this.i know i aint tellin you nothin thomas.peace:star-:ars

Is this a fact????

But back to the topic at hand, training to move more weight for any given lift(s), isolation or not, and with any given set and rep scheme, is not the exact same thing as powerlifting.

 

[BigTex]

This guy?
**broken link removed**

He doesn't look like he works out at all? He'd have the same amount of muscle had he never had started to lift weights?

If you had seen TJ in street clothes you would understand what I mean. He does not look like he could come anywhere close to an 814 squat. Much less the over 600 lbs he is doing in the picture.