Training Hard Enough?

[anab0lic]

U can try all the workout routines (theories) u want and it won't make a difference.

Train whatever u want. It makes not difference.

eh? Are you being serious with this post?

How you train can make a huge difference to how big you get and your overall shape... Anyone that disagrees with that simply hasn't experimented with a wide enough range of different training methods to see first hand how each one can affect your physique differently.

 

[Ocean cool]

Train whatever u want. It doesn't matter.

Training does little.

Just progress and it will make a difference.

 

[flexdurden]

Train whatever u want. It doesn't matter.

Training does little.

Just progress and it will make a difference.

Are you saying the style of training? Like HIT vs Volume?

If so, I am going to partially agree with this in that as long as you are progressively overloading the muscle you will grow. Whether that be through volume or HIT... as long as you continue to provide stimulus to induce muscular damage (progressive overload) then you'll grow. Sometimes this means going between both volume and HIT, but one can also use one style for a long time and continue to make progress, but I do think there will come a time when one can no longer use the same training style and in order to continue to grow need to find a way to create a unique stimulus.

 

[DK0223]

Stimulate don't annihilate

 

[osfitness]

Read a recent article on IM about people who follow Dorian's training principles on HIT and it really got me thinking about how effective HIT is for everyday gym rats and bbers.

Before the discussion progresses, lets just say Dorian was an absolute beast. He was meticulous with his diet and sleep (all logged), he lived bodybuilding every second of his life while he was an olympia contender and he is a genetic monstrosity.

HIT is based off of "It’s based around doing as little sets and reps necessary to achieve maximal results. Why keep annihilating a muscle if it’s already been stimulated to the point needed for growth?".

Now my question is, who can actually say without a doubt, they are going to absolute failure despite the mind-numbing pain you're feeling with unwavering sense of exhaustion/nausea always present? Cause that's what you need to do to make HIT effective right?

In my opinion, I train fairly hard and heavy. I haven't been able to find a consistent training partner willing to lift as intensely as I prefer to, but even then, I can't say I train to absolute failure every opportunity when I use HIT training. I haven't thrown up on squats (got REALLY close), haven't passed out, haven't had to lie down from the extreme fatigue. I have gotten nose bleeds, popped blood vessels in my eyes and face and opened up a pimple on my head from the bp causing blood to dribble down my head.

In your opinion, do you train hard/intensely enough to really make the most out of HIT training? Or do you just enjoy using moderate to high intensity and enjoying your gym sessions (which isn't a bad thing at all)?

you dont need to get nose bleeds, that is dangerous.. maybe cool, ego builder, but there is a road you dont want to follw.

look at most powerlifters, they dont last much past 40-45.. why? pressure...

id back off or breath right..

I dont pass out, puke, drop to the floor, well most times i dont. I grow just fine and I am 45.....

june 22nd 204, now 224..

 

[AshopRep]

Train whatever u want. It doesn't matter.

Training does little.

Just progress and it will make a difference.

Really?

 

[soloartist56]

I did HIT for about 3 years. Went beyond failure, forced reps, slow negatives, rest pause, drop sets etc. I had a journal where I wrote everything down always trying to beat my #'s either in incremental increases in weight or more reps than the previous workouts. I was successful but there is a point of diminishing returns where you cant beat your previous workout even if you have 7-9 days rest before hitting them again. Now I go to positive failure and add in more volume. What I noticed is my joints is less sore and get more of a pump and my strength has not decreased.

This is a good video here of what Pakulski thinks about Dorians training style.[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVY-QD65SsE]Ben Pakulski Dorian Yates Blood And Guts Training - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Marky Boy]

For me I always train heavy and go for 8-12 reps. I incorporate drop sets, rest pause etc erc and find Im still growing well

 

[richiec]

eh? Are you being serious with this post?

How you train can make a huge difference to how big you get and your overall shape... Anyone that disagrees with that simply hasn't experimented with a wide enough range of different training methods to see first hand how each one can affect your physique differently.

You really believe that how you train will determine your shape? If so, then you better NEVER do close grip pull up/down or else your back will get narrow (paraphrasing Phil Hernon)

 

[anab0lic]

You really believe that how you train will determine your shape? If so, then you better NEVER do close grip pull up/down or else your back will get narrow (paraphrasing Phil Hernon)

Absolutely...because Ive done it with my own body... Obviously there is only so much you can change with regards to how you will look...and that's pre- determined by genetics... HOWEVER, different excercise can and will bring out different parts of a muscle that may be underdeveloped currently and create a more complete look.

 

[zachbean79]

After spending a year really focusing on mobility training and namely extending my thoracic spine I 100% believe the way you train determines your shape. It's funny how arnold believed DB pullovers expanded the rib cage......in a way he was right. because that motion used to do DB pullovers is the same as many of the movement used to extend your t-spine. which will result in a broader chest, wider shoulders and makes the rib cage look like it's expanded. I have seen this in my own physique.

I think todays bodybuilder and people in general are all bunched up in the chest and shoulders and internally rotated from spending hours and hour, day in and day out hunched over in front of a computer, TV, head thrust forward constantly texting and tweeting. Then you go into the gym and train with heavy weights with tight hips and shoulders that compromise you ability to train the joint through it's full range of motion...............you don't think this leads to a change in a persons structure?

I actually saw a report on the news a few months back about how furture generations are expected to have droopier faces and necks at earlier ages do to constantly having our faces looking down at our phones hahah

Think about it.

 

[JustWannaBeHuge]

me personally, I train with a modified form of HIT, why? because I like it. i like to go to the gym, workout hard, leave. I however know my limits, which I didn't in my youth and I did injure my back, and I almost blacked out once. that was my stupidity being young and thinking I was a God among men and could never die or get injured.. well I was taught a lesson real quick.

I say follow the workout that gives you the most pleasure in the gym without destroying your body. You're not working out hard just to destroy your joints and ligaments or bust your head open due to passing out after a set of squats or deads now are ya?

people also need to know their limits. my girl and i work out together, and theres these 2 kids, maybe 16 or so that workout as their mom uses the stairstepper, and when they use dumbbells for benching, it damn near gives me an anxiety attack because they're using way to much weight that they can handle and their arms are shaking, about to give way under the weight. someone gave them advice before and they gave a smart ass answer to him so he walked away shaking his head. Yeah these kids are dumb asses, but I don't wanna see their face smashed in with a db either. Know your limits in everything you can do and progresses at the right speed to reach your goals.

 

[anarchocapitalist]

i consulted with mentzer via phone/email for a couple years in the late 90s a few years prior to his death. initially he had me training 3 days a week and after reading his heavy duty books my training eventually evolved to his consolidation routine with rest/pause.

of course i eventually reached a plateau with mentzer. although i was getting stronger on the few exercises i was doing i wasn't getting any more muscular. it wasn't uncommon to make a 10lbs gain in a heavy compound lift for several workouts in a row with his routines. but i wasn't getting bigger.

slowly i started adding volume in a somewhat scientific/objective way. instead of doing one set of chest once per week i tried two. a month later add another set. a month add another set. tried one exercise multiple sets and one set of multiple exercises.

eventually i found that anything over 6-8 work sets would slowly start to push me in to over training. now my training typically looks more like a 4 day MaxOT routine.

looking back i think mentzer was right that a single set is enough to cause an alarm reaction (GAS theory) but, over time, its not demanding enough to warrant the expensive adaptation of adding muscle mass. your central nervous system would prefer to increase economy by increasing (motor) skills. muscle mass, in terms of metabolic caloric currency, is expensive to build and maintain. in other words a single set once per week is only going to produce enough muscular gain to handle a single set once per week.

i also think that improving your strength week to week is the best way to determine if your program is working but its not a guarantee of muscle mass. getting stronger is not the ends but the means. if that makes sense.

and thats why i was gaining strength on a very low volume, my workouts were demanding enough for my body to be alarmed but the overall volume wasn't enough for my body to think i needed to add muscle.

with that said its about trade offs. i don't have time for marathon workouts, nor do i think high volume is the answer. i did my legs today in 30 minutes. 3 sets of squats and 3 sets of hacks. sure i might have added a 1/100th oz of muscle maybe doing another 3 sets of lunges but thats another 15 minutes off my day and im a busy working man and father.

 

[Cerberus777]

I train pretty intense. All my injuries have been job related.
Almost every nosebleed, vomiting, or black out has been a result of high rep squats or deads.

 

[richiec]

Absolutely...because Ive done it with my own body... Obviously there is only so much you can change with regards to how you will look...and that's pre- determined by genetics... HOWEVER, different excercise can and will bring out different parts of a muscle that may be underdeveloped currently and create a more complete look.

Completely has nothing to do with HOW you train, that's WHAT you train.

I'm going to assume that is what you were trying to say from the get go.