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Training(logbook vs no logbook)

svenrpb

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Hi,

Wondering what your guys stance on this is. A lot of people are so focussed on a logbook nowadays with progressing each lift @rpe 8.6776767 with TUT 4.56464 seconds. What happened to just training hard(and sometimes take sets to failure of course)? When you train hard, rest, eat you will grow. Seems like people are making things way to complicated those days and forget to actually train hard.

Thoughts?
 

juggy38

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Hi,

Wondering what your guys stance on this is. A lot of people are so focussed on a logbook nowadays with progressing each lift @rpe 8.6776767 with TUT 4.56464 seconds. What happened to just training hard(and sometimes take sets to failure of course)? When you train hard, rest, eat you will grow. Seems like people are making things way to complicated those days and forget to actually train hard.

Thoughts?

Have you ever been to a public gym? You know, where half the guys are on sauce, train for years and years, and weigh 210lbs and look like a bag of potatoes?


Yea….That’s where blindly “working out hard and eating good” will get you.

You have to progressively add stress, food, drugs. To PROGRESS. The log book ensures that.
 

svenrpb

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Have you ever been to a public gym? You know, where half the guys are on sauce, train for years and years, and weigh 210lbs and look like a bag of potatoes?


Yea….That’s where blindly “working out hard and eating good” will get you.

You have to progressively add stress, food, drugs. To PROGRESS. The log book ensures that.
You don´t get the point. I´m not talking about the average idiot in the gym that has been there for years doing shitty exercises and eating like a baby. I´m talking about people that know how to train hard(with taking sets to failure for example), eat above maintenance, select the proper exercises/frequency etc.

When all those things are checked in it is impossible not to gain in my opinion. Some people are so focussed on the logbook that any other method ´isn´t working´ these days. Some days you just aren´t as strong as other days, even though you used the same training principles etc. When being focussed by logging this would mean your training was shit.
 

Mufasa123

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Lots of ways to skin a cat. Ensuring progression over time on big lifts that matter is key (or progression on whatever aligns to your goal). As you progress training must become more goal specific and you need a plan beyond going in doing some random hard work and hoping to improve. Logbook can do this. Mental works for some. I'd err on the side of being conservative and doing more than you need unless you've been at this a while and understand organizing training (stimulus) to drive adaptation over periods.

All that said, above is ALOT more important for PL, OL, strength sports, or athletics in general. For bodybuilding tons of guys, even the top of top, have gotten by with adding more drugs (enhances response to any stimulus even less than perfect ones) and food. I have seen precious little to no evidence that optimal training plans are required for BBing (diet, drugs, rest, etc...seems to matter more unless training is true shit). My 2 cents.
 

xpoc

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This has happened to me a few times and Jordan Peters hit on it during one of his social media posts. Basically, I will myself to get an extra few reps to beat the book that I otherwise would have not completed and ended the set earlier. This is a POSITIVE on the log book. The negative is, I think it can cause you to lose the mind/muscle connection as I find myself leveraging my body or speeding up rep cadence in order to beat the book. It takes a LOT of discipline to maintain optimal form AND still beat the numbers in the book.
 

svenrpb

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Lots of ways to skin a cat. Ensuring progression over time on big lifts that matter is key (or progression on whatever aligns to your goal). As you progress training must become more goal specific and you need a plan beyond going in doing some random hard work and hoping to improve. Logbook can do this. Mental works for some. I'd err on the side of being conservative and doing more than you need unless you've been at this a while and understand organizing training (stimulus) to drive adaptation over periods.

All that said, above is ALOT more important for PL, OL, strength sports, or athletics in general. For bodybuilding tons of guys, even the top of top, have gotten by with adding more drugs (enhances response to any stimulus even less than perfect ones) and food. I have seen precious little to no evidence that optimal training plans are required for BBing (diet, drugs, rest, etc...seems to matter more unless training is true shit). My 2 cents.
I agree with you there, steadily building powerlifts is also a much bigger shock on the CNS(when not programmed properly) then most of the BB lifts. If absolute strength is the goal you would be better of doing that for sure.
 

svenrpb

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This has happened to me a few times and Jordan Peters hit on it during one of his social media posts. Basically, I will myself to get an extra few reps to beat the book that I otherwise would have not completed and ended the set earlier. This is a POSITIVE on the log book. The negative is, I think it can cause you to lose the mind/muscle connection as I find myself leveraging my body or speeding up rep cadence in order to beat the book. It takes a LOT of discipline to maintain optimal form AND still beat the numbers in the book.
Also agree here. By any means, if the logbook motivates you to push harder I believe it can be a great tool. But some people preach it so much(as if nothing of the other things work) it is almost funny. Same goes for training EVERYTHING to failure, I think that is also a big bowl of BS. For sure some sets need to be taken to failure, but not by any means all. The training style you enjoy doing the most is going to work the best for you in the long run I guess(high volume short rest, low volume long rest, logbooking everything etc.)
 

qbkilla

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I don't know what " training hard" means that's a subjective term like calling someone smart or fit. I may think 14% is fat an obese man may think it's lean.

I know what failure is and I always use a log book to track progress, all sets to failure. When I go in the gym I have a plan I execute it then I leave.

Now guys using rpe and calculating total tonage I agree that's too much. I think people with good genetics can "wing it" but wouldn't work for me.
 

pesty4077

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I can tell you how I ate and train from years ago. My recent picture and how I look at 62 is not guess work. I don't know why anyone wouldn't log foods and training with these simple to use phone aps. I even log blood pressure on an ap.
 

Flex500

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Hi,

Wondering what your guys stance on this is. A lot of people are so focussed on a logbook nowadays with progressing each lift @rpe 8.6776767 with TUT 4.56464 seconds. What happened to just training hard(and sometimes take sets to failure of course)? When you train hard, rest, eat you will grow. Seems like people are making things way to complicated those days and forget to actually train hard.

Thoughts?

I see your point but I'll also raise the point that "training hard" could mean a lot of things. I never liked a log book where I was obsessive about every exercise, rep, etc. but I always kept at least a mental log. I remember even after I trained for a while making a note on say an upper body day, how I was progressing with a couple core exercises such as bb rows or bench press or for something like squats or deadlifts to ensure I was progressing. There is probably a middle ground between being neurotic and obsessive about it (which isn't "bad" and is exactly how so many make great progress) and just randomly "doing things" in the gym.

Even now at 40 yrs old and training 25 years I do full body 3-4x a week and I know in the last workouts what I did for squats, deadlifts, bb rows, and dips. The rest I mix and match and go a bit more by "feel".
 

Mufasa123

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Also agree here. By any means, if the logbook motivates you to push harder I believe it can be a great tool. But some people preach it so much(as if nothing of the other things work) it is almost funny. Same goes for training EVERYTHING to failure, I think that is also a big bowl of BS. For sure some sets need to be taken to failure, but not by any means all. The training style you enjoy doing the most is going to work the best for you in the long run I guess(high volume short rest, low volume long rest, logbooking everything etc.)

You are right on excessive log book focus. Real purpose is to have a plan that drives progression over time. The idea of progressing workout to workout is great but that's beginner stuff (and more power to them, ride that damn horse until it drops dead for good). Also as mentioned above not every day is a good or average day. Bad sleep, emotional or work stress, just general blah may limit you and you need to be able to adjust. OL programming around their main lifts might get calibrated on a workout to workout basis by working up to a daily max and then running % off that. Not really doable for PLs and isolation lifts but thematically this is a way to address it and proof positive that it at least occasionally requires accommodation.

I think the logbook as gospel thing is overdone but appropriate for the target audience - progression is stressed, have a plan. These people don't have the knowledge/experience to adjust dynamically and honestly most all are novices so great. That doesn't mean a log has no value for experienced people or isn't misused but in general people know Jack shit about programming and training anyway so it does far more good than harm
 

juggy38

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Also agree here. By any means, if the logbook motivates you to push harder I believe it can be a great tool. But some people preach it so much(as if nothing of the other things work) it is almost funny. Same goes for training EVERYTHING to failure, I think that is also a big bowl of BS. For sure some sets need to be taken to failure, but not by any means all. The training style you enjoy doing the most is going to work the best for you in the long run I guess(high volume short rest, low volume long rest, logbooking everything etc.)

I know what your saying. That method is using your effort gauge every workout.

Louie Simmons max effort days did this. That day you pick an exercise, usually some weird squat/GM/DL. You don’t log it. You just go fucking meet god. Next max effort day, random exercise….go meet god.

This works…but the mind and body lies. Trying to replicate a “hard ass effort” 4/5
Days a week usually fails.

Example…today, I had strife chest press….warming up, I got to a hard 8, ready to start work set. check my log book, and last week, I did 30lbs heavier for 14. What in the fuck. I tied it, but without the log no way would I even attempted that.

Yes, some meet their goals without one, but I couldn’t imagine not having one to keep you honest on a long day or low carb day. The mind lies.
 

TheOtherOne55

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You’re making it sound too simplified.
“Can’t we all just train hard, eat and grow! It’s that simple!” If it was, there would be a lot bigger people living on this planet. But the fact is there aren’t. YES, if u understand training and can compartmentalize and always play the long game, good things happen to your physique. But the simple fact is that 90% of people cannot do those 3 things. There are levels to this 😂

I just think it’s dumb to make it sound like some easy process. It is not. Even if it is as simple as u say, the vast majority will become a semi-fat permabulker who never gets over 225. That’s about when guys filter out and realize that in order to go from lookin like you kiiinda lift, to “that dudes a monster,” it gets a bit more complicated.
 

Cerberus777

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Definitely use a log book (now just notes on my phone) IMHO it's the only way I'll progress, If nothing changes you can't expect change. So I'm going to get at least one more rep, or 2.5 lbs regardless of how I think I feel today.
 

Baphomet36

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I keep a log book, I train working set to failure. I let my effort dictate my volume.
If someone follows their log book and is doing everything consistently there’s no way they won’t grow.
I’m not sure how writing down how many reps I got and tracking everything means im over complicating it.

There’s a way to use the log book wrong. If you’re changing tempo or getting sloppy with form just to add weight or reps then that’s not progression.

Who is preaching and honestly following their log book, taking every set to failure and is small or isn’t growing?
 

Ruhlfreak55

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I've always logged. But I don't have some kind of weird fixation on making sure I beat it every week.
 

qbkilla

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You’re making it sound too simplified.
“Can’t we all just train hard, eat and grow! It’s that simple!” If it was, there would be a lot bigger people living on this planet. But the fact is there aren’t. YES, if u understand training and can compartmentalize and always play the long game, good things happen to your physique. But the simple fact is that 90% of people cannot do those 3 things. There are levels to this 😂

I just think it’s dumb to make it sound like some easy process. It is not. Even if it is as simple as u say, the vast majority will become a semi-fat permabulker who never gets over 225. That’s about when guys filter out and realize that in order to go from lookin like you kiiinda lift, to “that dudes a monster,” it gets a bit more complicated.
Agree with this. I was that guy. 20 years ago on forums "train hard, compound lifts, eat big, sleep 8 hours." I trained my ass off, I ate big (and clean), and could bounce 345 for 7 sets of 7 off my 254 lb 18% body fat tittie's. Lol. If I hadn't got injured and hired a coach who flat out told me I was nothing more than a permabulker I'd probably still be stepping on the scale each morning making sure I kept it moving up.
 

Nike22

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All I gotta say is that when I started tracking my workouts and food about 4 years ago my results were WAY better than before. And I wasn't training/eating like an idiot, my mom was a competitive bodybuilder so I knew the rules.

I think one thing that logging your food paticularly helps is that the body will play tricks on you. Sometimes I totally feel full only to check and realize that I've got 125g of protein and 700 cals to go before I hit my daily macro goals. This can happen in the reverse too, super hungry only to realize that I'm all ready 250 cals over my daily macros.
 

Nike22

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Another way a log book helps is like when you remember how back in 2018 you were in hella ripped shape. Perfect balance of training, food and rest (and AAS). Just off the top of your head do remember what your training, macros and AAS schedule was 4 years ago? I can't.

Well, you can go back and review - gee my delts were crazy back then and I was only doing 12 sets total, now I'm doing 16 and they aren't growing - now I'm running Test/NPP but back then it was Test/EQ - Dial the sets back to 12 and switch to Test/EQ problem solved.
 

alfresco

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Hi,

Wondering what your guys stance on this is. A lot of people are so focussed on a logbook nowadays with progressing each lift @rpe 8.6776767 with TUT 4.56464 seconds. What happened to just training hard(and sometimes take sets to failure of course)? When you train hard, rest, eat you will grow. Seems like people are making things way to complicated those days and forget to actually train hard.

Thoughts?

I was an obsessed with a log book at one point in time. I logged everything I ate and
when, every set, every rep of every workout, how much I weighed, every time I had sex, and when I took a dump. Blood pressure, meds, etc. Yes you could say I was obsessed. Thank god I wasn’t exposed to PED’s. It would have thrown in another variable which would have blown my mind or what little of it I had left.

I used to mull over it day and night, attempting to draw conclusions in order to give my life some order and a sense of control and purpose.

Not any more but that as they say, is another story.

I think what may cause a bit of confusion now-a-days is social media (Yes, there is that dirty little word again.) Kids, hell even full grown adults are obsessed with it and all the insipid, shallow training videos of pros and amateurs alike without a log book. (I think Dorian is one of the few exceptions we have on record talking about that and look what happened to him. Poor Dorian.) Do they or have they used one? I don’t know but if so they have been mighty quiet about it. There secret weapon? . . . I say no. And don’t ask me for an explanation, I don’t have one, but then again I don’t know a barbell from a Cadillac.

I think they are of tremendous value but only if you truly analyze it and are able to draw a cause and effect from it and are not just using it to keep track of what you are doing. And just beating the log book is not enough, you have to use it to your advantage. For example, if you are beating your log book, reps and weight, but you have gained 25 lbs. of fat in the process what good is that? Sure you beat your log book but at what cost?

I’m going on and on I know. Just a few things that immediately come to mind.
 

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