Training on an empty stomach

[gear-unit]

i have don it on a diet i think it is great but you dont have much energy i think

 

[kingkong]

Half full

Near empty is best. Eating something a few hours before is always best for me. Those that come to the gym on a full stomach will always be bloated, in any surroundings.

 

[kingpeon]

it would be nice if we could put an end to these stupid myths, think about it, all the anabolic hormones start to raise when you go to sleep, and peak at some point during the night, so they [the anabolic hormones] are at their peak when you wake up, as the day goes on your a h start to decline and the catabolic ones start to go up. so your gh, igf1, and test are highest, and your cortisol, catecholamines, and any other catabolic hormone is lowest, in the morning. so why is your body going to use muscle as fuel and not fat? as far as glycogen is concerned we store plenty in our muscles and liver, if that was not the case why do most people store fat so easily when they eat carbs/sugars in excess?

I agree with what you said. I always feel strongest an hour after I wake up. That's when I train. It works.

 

[kingpeon]

It takes a lot longer than a standard workout session (even a really intense one) to get your body breaking down protein at the rate you wrote.

You are wrong.

 

[centralmuscle]

For my body type I would need a protein/carb shake at about the 30 min mark to keep any intensity at all, and not eat muscle.

 

[centralmuscle]

It takes a lot longer than a standard workout session (even a really intense one) to get your body breaking down protein at the rate you wrote.

depends on how fast a person depletes glycogen stores and triggers the brain to look for food. Not everyone does it at the same rate, thats why there are carb people, and non carb people. Some exist fine on keto, some nearly die(like I do).

 

[Aaron Osaka]

Bullshit! You are wrong.

If you have adequate glycogen in your system (and you should before training), your body will not go on a protein burning frenzy even with heavy training (though if you do not nourish yourself after, it may!).

After 90 minutes or so of very intense training (ie, aerobic endurance/marathon training), protein wasting can become a real issue but you need to remember that although weight lifting can be very 'intense', it is interval training at its core and thus will be mostly tax the phosphagen and fast-glycolysis systems (and slow g. to some extent) well over protein burning. If anything, at rest between exercises, fats will be burnt well more than protein.

 

[kingpeon]

I'll trust my sources. They've been right about everything they've published.

I'm pretty sure they're a whole lot smarter than you. No offense.

 

[kingpeon]

it would be nice if we could put an end to these stupid myths. so why is your body going to use muscle as fuel and not fat? as far as glycogen is concerned we store plenty in our muscles and liver, if that was not the case why do most people store fat so easily when they eat carbs/sugars in excess?

Not a stupid myth. You gotta lot to learn. It's real science, not bro-science or some other BS.

The human body prefers to keep the fat for times of starvation and even then you will still catabolize plenty of muscle. Weight training past the point when you run out of available glucose triggers this response. The body will not go exclusively to fat to fuel you during this temporary starvation mode.

As a form of "survival fat" preservation the body will also liberate aminos from your own muscle tissue to be quickly turned into glucose to fuel your workout.

This occurs approximately 20 minutes into training. Most people on a high carb diet not under the immediate stress of training will have an overflow of glucose and of course the body will store it as fat if calories are over maintenance.

Taking a good dose of aminos during training helps to offset this catabolism in favor of burning more fat than muscle not unlike AAS. Aminos have one big draw back. Training increases lactic acid in muscle cells and aminos have a very hard time getting into the cells when lactic acid is high.

After 20 minutes or so, I don't care who you are, you're available blood glucose is spent.

 

[vesne]

dont like that, at leaast some carb 30min before.....
otherwise, catabolics is the name of the party!

 

[nemo]

Not a stupid myth. You gotta lot to learn. It's real science, not bro-science or some other BS.

The human body prefers to keep the fat for times of starvation and even then you will still catabolize plenty of muscle. Weight training past the point when you run out of available glucose triggers this response. The body will not go exclusively to fat to fuel you during this temporary starvation mode.

As a form of "survival fat" preservation the body will also liberate aminos from your own muscle tissue to be quickly turned into glucose to fuel your workout.

This occurs approximately 20 minutes into training. Most people on a high carb diet not under the immediate stress of training will have an overflow of glucose and of course the body will store it as fat if calories are over maintenance.

Taking a good dose of aminos during training helps to offset this catabolism in favor of burning more fat than muscle not unlike AAS. Aminos have one big draw back. Training increases lactic acid in muscle cells and aminos have a very hard time getting into the cells when lactic acid is high.

After 20 minutes or so, I don't care who you are, you're available blood glucose is spent.

I always find reading this stuff entertaining. You'd think that if after 20 minutes of non-continuous activity we completely depleted all of our available glucose and entered into a massive state of catabolism we would have evolved some way of storing glucose in our muscle cells for easy access. You know, like by forming giant glucose polymers. It's amazing that despite having low body fat and muscle mass marathon runners manage to survive all this catabolism well past the magical 20 minute mark. I wonder what their body's are using for fuel?

 

[ojs]

I only train on an empty stomach. I like to be at least 3 hours fasted.
I get my best workouts first thing in the morning completely fasted.

 

[btech]

Very interesting ideas in here that I have always assumed were 100% counter-productive. I'll have to try this sometime to see how I react to it. . . .or at least get some whey and milk beforehand and play it by ear.

I'm a lurker who likes to learn new stuff, so for this thread to go on vaguely untouched by many of the bigger names on this site is killing me. . .

 

[kingpeon]

It's amazing that despite having low body fat and muscle mass marathon runners manage to survive all this catabolism well past the magical 20 minute mark. I wonder what their body's are using for fuel?

Muscle and fat, if not for Gatorade or Allsport, etc..

Most marathoners have to take extra steps to maintain their health, also. Marathon running is extremely catabolic and rough on the immune system..

 

[kingpeon]

I only train on an empty stomach. I like to be at least 3 hours fasted.
I get my best workouts first thing in the morning completely fasted.

This is what I do, too. It's the best time under the best conditions, for me.

I like a handful of aminos 30 minutes prior and during and immediately after as well.

 

[nemo]

Muscle and fat, if not for Gatorade or Allsport, etc..

Most marathoners have to take extra steps to maintain their health, also. Marathon running is extremely catabolic and rough on the immune system..

You really don't know what glycogen is and yet here you are delivering expert advice? Wonderful

 

[vesne]

You can run some aminos 22222 and pre-workout here......its safe!
teorics makes me nervous!!

 

[Aaron Osaka]

I'll trust my sources. They've been right about everything they've published.

I'm pretty sure they're a whole lot smarter than you. No offense.

I'm one month away from my CSCS test and have read mountains of material on this subject.

 

[kingpeon]

You really don't know what glycogen is and yet here you are delivering expert advice? Wonderful

Uhh, let me guess, glycogen is a never ending supply of glucose stored in your body somewhere? Am I close?

Listen, the whole point is you'll make faster progress, all other variables constant, if you limit the burning of muscle tissue during workouts. Why get knocked down 10 pegs if you can reduce it to only 2 pegs and make it easier to then build up and overcompensate later during recovery?

 

[kingpeon]

I'm one month away from my CSCS test and have read mountains of material on this subject.

Interesting, I wouldn't want to be one of your clients. The "experts" I train by have been in this business for literally decades. To each his own.