Training Programs - BS?

[Damios]

"I don't believe in following any one training style. I couldn't tell what DC or H.I.T. or FST-7 entail. I have no clue and really don't give a ****. I go to the gym to train hard. I don't need to follow a ****ing "program" to do that." - Evan Centopani

Do You agree with him? Only one and the most important thing about training is: HARD WORK?

 

[richiec]

Consistency and progression whether using as set program or not

 

[superman21]

As long as you are progressing then I don't see anything wrong with the training method you are using.

 

[sammy555]

I kinda agree with him but I'm not against people using set routines, just not for me. DC does tempt me but I enjoy doing my thing

 

[brutus69]

every one of the 10 or 12 people at my gym who compete onstage dont follow any named program. none of them. and they all do well, as in top 3 when they compete.

 

[Flex500]

I do agree to an extent. Go to the gym, lift hard, be consistent. You do that and most of the battle is one.

That said after a while I do think certain programs can give you new ways to think about things. I lift more in the mradows/pj type of manner. More training sessions....heavy in very specific and targeted times (versus yeah bitch it's leg day 600 pound squats to start the workout!).

I think once you get older sand you have a great base and are really where you want to be from a pure mass standpoint I do think some of these specific programs can give you new days to look at things and do things to help progress and stay I jury free.

 

[co1e_train]

I have always thought this to be a very interesting topic.

First I will say that I would tend to lean in the direction of Evan's comment. This is after spending some years following various programs to the letter.


When I first started bodybuilding and being in the gym I was very much a program follower. 5/3/1, PHAT, DC, sheiko, etc are some of the ones I did. I would also right out programs and routines and follow those. I always found however after a couple weeks in or after a program cycle or two that I would find myself feeling that I was leaving effort or possible gains on the table.

When I switched to a standard split and a more typical "bodybuilder" routine of higher volume, lifting heavy on some movements and going for a pump on others I found that I enjoyed training more, made better progress and just generally felt better about my workouts.

Is that to say programs are wrong? No not at all. In fact I think, if hypertrophy is the goal, sometimes some specific programming to help lagging body parts can be very helpful but I don't think that specific programming is a must or most optimal for me when it comes to hypertrophy.

If I was a power lifter or wanted to increase strength then absolutely I think programming workouts or follow programs is critical.

So I suppose it can be a both/and but if hypertophy is strictly the goal then I think one should worry about feeling the muscle work, doing enough volume to illicit growth and ensuring intensity is high.

 

[Bio]

"I don't believe in following any one training style. I couldn't tell what DC or H.I.T. or FST-7 entail. I have no clue and really don't give a ****. I go to the gym to train hard. I don't need to follow a ****ing "program" to do that." - Evan Centopani

Do You agree with him? Only one and the most important thing about training is: HARD WORK?

Good form is the first thing one should learn, after that, basic compound movements, and the icing on the cake is consistency!...Without consistency, gains are impossible! After that, one can start to look into other systems and dabble with other movements and find ways to mix things up. That said, if anyone of those systems listed are producing gains then stick with it!...As long as you're progressing!!

 

[ECB]

Part of being an advanced lifter is having a good understanding of yourself, what you need, your recovery ability, your limitations etc.

Running a generic "program" for a period of time can be a great thing. But after running something cookie cutter for a while it's important to understand how to tweak that program to best suit your individual situation and needs. This is what I think trips up many people. They keep following things so text book, and are either afraid to stray, or just don't have a good enough understanding of training in general that it can often be less than optimal.

I think programming is important, but optimally should be individualized. Anything cookie cutter can only be so good. These in many cases are made to sell books, and promote the writer, they are written for the masses. They need to make them for a wide range of experience levels, natty/enhanced, wide range of goals, etc.

It's kind of like "diet" if you've been doing this a long time you can instinctually manipulate macros/calories without ever tracking anything or being on a "diet". You can grow/cut just based off experience and knowledge alone, but when it comes to getting optimal results(ie. Let's say contest prep) getting things more regimented and calculated becomes more important.

Even Sheiko himself said he's not sure where most of these Sheiko "programs" came from because they aren't his. His programs are written for a specific lifter and tailored over time to that person.

 

[lilgumby]

I use a set "program" weather it be DC a HITT or my favorite one of john meadows programs . I tend to have a better workout when i have some kind of structure laid out . I run one for 3-4 months then change it up . I do end up tweeking it somewhat for my needs .
I see people in my gym wandering around asking there buddies " hey what would you do for bi's ect...." waste of time imo

 

[Cornelius]

All it boils down to is training as hard as possible while recovering completely.
Programs are thought out, have periods of hard training and periods of less stressful training. Most guys that have done this a long time will have their own "program". Just watch dudes at the gym they generally do the same workouts. This works just fine but you need to realize when you're not making changes any more.

You need to subject your muscles to more stress to make them larger.
Now YES there are many ways to do this.
But all the guys doing occlusion training and all the other obscure methods...are they really growing? Often not IMO.
They increase the drugs and get bigger.
Drugs go down they get smaller.

I really think you should keep it as simple as possible.
Find the exercises that really stimulate your muscles fully then get very strong on them.
But you need to get stronger in the right manner.
Slow negatives then powerful contractions.
It seems to me that most guys fall in two camps.
1: They don't lift progressively heavier do lots of volume but don't get much bigger.
2: Those that try to lift heavier even though their muscles haven't got stronger. So they use shitty form and end up getting hurt.
Only a few guys lift progressively but only increase the weights when they have actually got stronger!

I think the Dorian method is the best.
As few hard sets as required to get the job done.

 

[TrinityD]

Disagree.
there is one particular training style that has proven to be far superior for me. other methods have always been inferior; it is like night and day.

 

[sma]

Disagree.
there is one particular training style that has proven to be far superior for me. other methods have always been inferior; it is like night and day.

the key word is " for you".

 

[Equalizer]

Ive always been one to keep a logbook to track my training progress and I see very few others doing that. But since there seems to be a lot of others bigger and stronger than myself who don't do that, maybe that makes me the fool?

 

[heroish]

I think what is over looked is creating the right environment for growth. Most programmes with progression will work, but the body just can't grow linearly.

 

[Cornelius]

Ive always been one to keep a logbook to track my training progress and I see very few others doing that. But since there seems to be a lot of others bigger and stronger than myself who don't do that, maybe that makes me the fool?

Perhaps they're naturally stronger than you?
If you went from benching 100lb to 250lb you have progressed more than a dude that went from a 200lb bench to a 300lb bench.

 

[bigboy05]

As long as you are making constant improvements and pushing yourself....do what works for you.
However, powerlifting is a different story. There are programs designed to acheive specific strength goals that work really well.

I think the answer to the OP's question is different for bodybuilding vs powerlifting

 

[sma]

As long as you are making constant improvements and pushing yourself....do what works for you.
However, powerlifting is a different story. There are programs designed to acheive specific strength goals that work really well.

I think the answer to the OP's question is different for bodybuilding vs powerlifting

i thought the same until i saw what smolov squats did to a member here his name doesnt come to mind but check photos you will see that is another myth yet debunked and also the low reps for quads getting debunked aswell. This is a very individual sport

 

[chapss]

I am in the follow a program camp. Some routines have undergone tweaking for decades... Years of knowledge in a good routine that you get in shortcut form by following.

That said, sure, you can do without one. But most likely your own methods are not as good as you think they are. Case in point, unless you're at the top of your competitions, you could probably do yourself better by finding the right routine.

 

[Growman]

Its different for everyone and trial and error will usually help you figure it out. Most of us have been training for many years, so we know what we are doing but we need to see what program can help get the best results.

I had been lucky to have several friends who competed, and I have been training for 17-18 years so i just gained a lot of knowledge over time. I never had a personal trainer and me and whoever I was training with would just come up with a workout (the training split was always pre determined) the day of the training session (just decide how many sets and movements to do and just go for it), just knowing what we liked to do and what worked for us.

2 years ago i started training alone, I always had a plan but it was never a set program. Just 2 months ago i decided to switch it up and go with a set program thinking perhaps i could maximize my workouts and also just to completely change things up, and it has been working great.

Like others mentioned consistency, diet, intensity... those things always need to be done if you want to get gains. Then being on a set program or not could make a difference depending on the person. If you are someone who likes structure or are not experienced I would go with a set program. If you know your body and you really know how to train you can just get in there and kill it !!!