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Training to Failure Vs. Not Training to Failure

i don't see how you can progressively overload your body with lbs or reps the FASTEST if you are stopping short of your index to tell you where you are failing... :confused:

if my max effort bench was 365x10, my goal next session is either 365x11 or 370x10... i am going to PUSH to be progressive where i FAILED before... how in the world am i going to be able to progress the FASTEST if i simply stop a rep or 2 short on every exercise when i "think" I'm going to fail.... I've had so many times where i thought it was my last rep, then BOOM, something like snaps in my head then 2...3...4 more..... of course not failing over time your body will adapt and that extra rep will come, there isn't one way... but I'm talking about building muscle the FASTEST way....

You guys are talking about getting burned out w failure.... your telling me 3 sets to failure 1x a week you are going to burn you out more so than 16-20 sets 1 short 2x a week? that is not a failure issue IMO but a volume and recovery issue....... now, if your doing 16 sets ALL to failure and trying to workout 2x a week, sure, i could see getting burnt out very very quickly...

Im not saying that failure is the only way, but i do believe constantly PUSHING mentally and physically to make PRs happen for reps with good form on each exercise, each training session will be the fastest way to gain tissue if your sups and food are right...


Also, don't get me wrong, i do believe your body needs DELOAD periods where you aren't progressively pushing PRs and start using more "pump" techniques.... your joints and tendons don't like constantly doing something they aren't use to...

For me, it's simply not the fastest way to build muscle. Instead, it's the fastest way to plateau and not gain at all.

It's great that you can train like that, it means that you likely have a better recovery ability than do I and the others like me.

An example of why it works for me: using curls, for instance, I was stuck on 110lbs EZ curls 1 x 10 when training to failure. I'd get up to 115lbs and then regress down to maybe 105lbs, I'd then build back up to 110lbs and the cycle repeats. However, by NOT training to failure, I've gone from 110lbs 1 x 10 to failure to 135lbs 4 x 8 about 1-2 reps shy of failure and my arms are up 0.5." They hadn't grown for a bloody long time (years) before this.

I also have a greater sense of well-being, and a much increased appetite since not training to failure.

Physiologically, I have very small joints, a classic ectomorph, at a height of 6'1." I've read that classic ectomorphs don't do so well training to failure. Of course, this is purely anecdotal but at least in my case it's true.

For what it's worth, I don't do 16-20 sets per bodypart in one session, I train with only one exercise per bodypart and only between 3-5 sets, albeit 3 x a week for each muscle.
 
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Training to failure is a bad strategy to get stronger...look at power lifters, never fail on the big lifts...

Bodybuilding, training the muscle to failure is critical. Strength gains after a point will likely slow considerably but you continue to grow.

Cns burnout can be mitigated by not psyching up for lifts, going under 6-8 reps or lifting very explosively (which you shouldn't anyways since this reduces tension on the muscle, metabolic demand and muscle damage...all the factors for hyper trophy)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
enjoy training and done it with smile,let your muscle growth and energy active:D
 
I see in this thread few young cubs who going on about , train 6 times a week , training to failure every set.

I hear this often stronger muscle is a bigger muscle. chashing the log book blah blah. heavy duty , compounds lifts, etc etc .

come back here after 15 plus years of combat in the weight room & will talk


I was decorated with the below medals just for ref...


SIJ dysfunction right hip for life
Rt knee ligament laxity / knee hyperextension issues
RT shoulder labrum grade 2 tear
medial epicondylitis left elbow
lateral epicondylitis left elbow

just know one thing ...

you can endure the hardest pain , defy a Tsunami of lactic acid n keep going in the gym with immortal grit & loyal devotion to the beloved iron & keep pounding day in day out as you build your mind into literally STEEL strong to endure any suffering but & here is a big huge BUT

your tendons, ligaments, cartilage connective tissues are NOT MADE OF STEEL !!!!!!!

sad but truth . mind can be developed & trained to be strong as steel of course but the above mentioned structures aren't . Sooner you realise better longevity you will have in the game. who wants to go so madly all out & then get told by doc ' hey listen up man don't go heavy on that squat or this or that you heart may not be able to cope or you will snap this or that' . Fuck that . seriously fuck that shit. I don't want to be that guy .

if I ever get told u can't weight train anymore I will be be straight down in clinical depression & finished. This is my life for 17 odd years on & off a bit & I want to be doing it to my dying days. I m happy & content with being 'AT IT' for as long as I can .

on ending note I trained arms yesterday & it was pure 'Guantanamo Cisternino mode' lol . I train instinctive methods for years now yes I went to failure , I trained fast , I did proper form , most imp I did bodybuilding yesterday not weight lifting !

I tried to build muscle not to get stronger . I loved it. Always remember getting more & more strength in the bag comes with a whole lot of problems. Ask any powder lifter.

practice bodybuilding like serge nubret did not the approach Ronnie took. It's fine if you wish to pick Ronnie's route over serge but I can almost guarantee you will pay later in life. It's not about having a regret or not . It's about what path you want to take. For me personally calling it a day cos I shot myself with weights so bad in the years & refused to listen & take it easy would not go down as a very wise decision when I sit down & do some pontification over the whole thing.
 
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Pretty damn good bodybuilder said "Stimulate dont annihilate"

I guess in about 72 days we will see if this philosophy works on a 44 year old that took about a decade and half away from any serious training / diet.
 
^^^ That's was Haney ..

Haney once said '' I was the pretty boy, Fast twitch muscle guy. 10-15 reps . in and out. just stimulating the muscle . Haney never gave shit about strength. very smart. He ride the high wave of genetics he knew he had. Haney never had the sort of injuries other did. Gaspari was pretty beat as he was Mr full Tilt all the time. Haney in his retirement is still very healthy and fit & he did not need to play an orthopaedic surgeons specimen like Ronnie.

U have muscle memory on your side Marvin. U will do well in contest . all the best to you mate.

for some reason I am not able to quote your post , when I did ita taking me to some old posts of random people and not to your post !
 
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I always trained heavy and to failure on my last sets. Here lately Ive been using moderate weight and high volume. 3-5 sets of 12-15. I use a weight I can control through every range and use really slow contacting movements. Ive exploded with growth. Not weight, but its shaped my body overall a lot more better


I honestly believe its just because i did one thing for so long and then switched it up and ahocked my body so long.

Now i find myself switching sets and rep and weiggt frequency sometimes week to week. Depends how I feel. Some days I go heavy and low volume...maybe even some cheat reps of more "moving the weight" and some days I go super strict and liggt weight.

I like the constant change now. It always keeps me guessing and keeps me from getting bored of the same thing. I will even throw 100+ rep supersets for muscles like tris and bis randomnly.

The most important thing to me is nutrition, rest, and lconsistency. I honestly think we can all grow just about on any program
 
I always trained heavy and to failure on my last sets. Here lately Ive been using moderate weight and high volume. 3-5 sets of 12-15. I use a weight I can control through every range and use really slow contacting movements. Ive exploded with growth. Not weight, but its shaped my body overall a lot more better


I honestly believe its just because i did one thing for so long and then switched it up and ahocked my body so long.

Now i find myself switching sets and rep and weiggt frequency sometimes week to week. Depends how I feel. Some days I go heavy and low volume...maybe even some cheat reps of more "moving the weight" and some days I go super strict and liggt weight.

I like the constant change now. It always keeps me guessing and keeps me from getting bored of the same thing. I will even throw 100+ rep supersets for muscles like tris and bis randomnly.

The most important thing to me is nutrition, rest, and lconsistency. I honestly think we can all grow just about on any program

Am I reading this right? You consider 3-5 sets, high volume?
 
Am I reading this right? You consider 3-5 sets, high volume?

The key sir, is that I conaider 5 sets of 15, on 4-5 exercises high volume compared to my normal routine.

Whether you do or not is another story. Our bodies and genetics are different in every way. What we do is different in every way. At my level right now, around 12-16 sets in good volume for me. 20+ sets of high reps....yes i personally consider it high volume. But i know what works for me....evwn if it doesnt for you.
 
I like to leave a rep or two in the tank. That's still pretty hard. It takes some experience to know when that is. A lot of guys think they hit failure but really could have another grinder or two in there.

That's something useful I picked up from powerlifting. Those guys train to not miss lifts. So my failure point is when form breaks down or if I have to frimd a rep at all. I want all my reps to be fast and smooth.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
 
"Stimulate don't annihilate" I think training to failure isn't a good way to build muscle. For me, I often take regular exercises according to the coach's instruction.:cool:
 
Failure has nothing to do w the amount weight... as tri said failure usually means taking the set to the point you can no longer perform a strict form rep... it doesn't mean you have to bail out in the hole of a squat and use the safety bars or press until the bar won't move an inch off your chest....

Young cubs, with a reference to Haney LOL.... so who here has Haney genetics for building muscle????? Please, Show me a non black guy on the pro stage or on this forum who is top level who doesn't goto positive failure and I'll show you three that do... DC TRAINING, Meadows Training, emerics training, stupid Phil's training, Phil Viz, Matt porters, Justin Harris, BBOY, etc etc etc .... all these training styles...watch the videos, they goto failure and beyond... I never see these type of guys pull up reps short before their form breaks. ...

That standard 3-4 exercises w 4 pumping sets of 10-12 stopping short and not trying to really progress doesn't transform the average 200lb lifter to a fucking superheavyweight monster in my observations after a decade plus in the gym and 6-7 years on here watching and listening to thousands of guys...

For injury prevention? Sure, that's 100% a safe way... and i get that, i have a fucked back and cant squat, is what it is....but extremes aren't built usually in the safest way... things go to extremes if u want extreme results....now, guys may switch to all this high volume shit after they've built a huge base, but they got their slinging heavy ass iron for reps.... again, i don't mean to make this a race thing but show me an impressive top ranked white guy that trains short of extreme...
 
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As most have said, it's all about progressive overload. Here's what I do:

Say you are using a program that uses the 6-12 rep range. Forget about the first few weeks while you are getting the loads correct. After that, as you approach 12 reps you push to failure. The next workout you increase weight and do only 6 reps -- even if you can do more.
 
Failure has nothing to do w the amount weight... as tri said failure usually means taking the set to the point you can no longer perform a strict form rep... it doesn't mean you have to bail out in the hole of a squat and use the safety bars or press until the bar won't move an inch off your chest....

Young cubs, with a reference to Haney LOL.... so who here has Haney genetics for building muscle????? Please, Show me a non black guy on the pro stage or on this forum who is top level who doesn't goto positive failure and I'll show you three that do... DC TRAINING, Meadows Training, emerics training, stupid Phil's training, Phil Viz, Matt porters, Justin Harris, BBOY, etc etc etc .... all these training styles...watch the videos, they goto failure and beyond... I never see these type of guys pull up reps short before their form breaks. ...

That standard 3-4 exercises w 4 pumping sets of 10-12 stopping short and not trying to really progress doesn't transform the average 200lb lifter to a fucking superheavyweight monster in my observations after a decade plus in the gym and 6-7 years on here watching and listening to thousands of guys...

For injury prevention? Sure, that's 100% a safe way... and i get that, i have a fucked back and cant squat, is what it is....but extremes aren't built usually in the safest way... things go to extremes if u want extreme results....now, guys may switch to all this high volume shit after they've built a huge base, but they got their slinging heavy ass iron for reps.... again, i don't mean to make this a race thing but show me an impressive top ranked white guy that trains short of extreme...

That whole shit about Haney and the way he trains is a load of BS yes he said in a video that " stimulate not annihilate" but the truth is Haney trained like a fucking animal most of the time but not all of the time... You can find the videos online and he is clearly training to failure or near to it ...
 
Very close to failure but not complete failure.

Longevity is the key to the game and imo failure adds unneeded risk of injury.
 
Very close to failure but not complete failure.

Longevity is the key to the game and imo failure adds unneeded risk of injury.

yes... and people need to realize there are many types of failure....

im not a scientist so excuse my terms if they are off...

1) mental failure- this varies greatly w peoples pain threshold... ur mind tells you you can't but your muscles still have energy in them... very common in beginners, you watch them rack it up wayyyy before you know they are done bc the pain starts...

2) "good form" failure- Where you can't complete another strict form rep isolating your target muscle and having to use body english , "forced reps" , recruiting secondary muscles, etc

3)positive failure- where you cannot compete another FULL rom concentric

4)negative failure- where you cannot hold or control the weight thru the whole rom eccentric

5)total failure- i guess where the weight can't be moved
 
^^^ That's was Haney ..

Haney once said '' I was the pretty boy, Fast twitch muscle guy. 10-15 reps . in and out. just stimulating the muscle . Haney never gave shit about strength. very smart. He ride the high wave of genetics he knew he had. Haney never had the sort of injuries other did. Gaspari was pretty beat as he was Mr full Tilt all the time. Haney in his retirement is still very healthy and fit & he did not need to play an orthopaedic surgeons specimen like Ronnie.

U have muscle memory on your side Marvin. U will do well in contest . all the best to you mate.

for some reason I am not able to quote your post , when I did ita taking me to some old posts of random people and not to your post !

I have to say that muscle memory is an amazing thing. I will say that I used to train more 'Heavy Duty' style - but I never threw weights around haphazardly. That being said - I am sure that some of my shoulder problems come from poor training form and / or overdoing it.

As far as the contest - I just want to impress my wife and kids. Its been such a chore convincing them that I wasn't always a fat tub of lard that looked like 275lbs of chewed bubble gum. :(

Back in the day I had pretty good structure that carried me when I competed in less than ready condition - and I don't know if I have time to come down slow enough to look right. I am going to give it hell though
 
yes... and people need to realize there are many types of failure....

im not a scientist so excuse my terms if they are off...

1) mental failure- this varies greatly w peoples pain threshold... ur mind tells you you can't but your muscles still have energy in them... very common in beginners, you watch them rack it up wayyyy before you know they are done bc the pain starts...

2) "good form" failure- Where you can't complete another strict form rep isolating your target muscle and having to use body english , "forced reps" , recruiting secondary muscles, etc

3)positive failure- where you cannot compete another FULL rom concentric

4)negative failure- where you cannot hold or control the weight thru the whole rom eccentric

5)total failure- i guess where the weight can't be moved
Great post.
 
The key sir, is that I conaider 5 sets of 15, on 4-5 exercises high volume compared to my normal routine.

Whether you do or not is another story. Our bodies and genetics are different in every way. What we do is different in every way. At my level right now, around 12-16 sets in good volume for me. 20+ sets of high reps....yes i personally consider it high volume. But i know what works for me....evwn if it doesnt for you.

Yes, I agree that is high volume, that is new info not in your original post. Thanks for clarifying.

The condescension and false assumptions is why I hardly ever post btw.
 
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Yes, I agree that is high volume, that is new info not in your original post. Thanks for clarifying.

The condescension and false assumptions is why I hardly ever post btw.


Don't let it get to you man.

If you get huge nobody will pick on you :confused: :D

You have been here from the beginning and in the game much longer I am certain.
 
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