Training to Failure

[tornquad201]

I've said this repeatedly.. people sometimes have a much different version of failure than I do.. I hear many say they go to failure but if you put a gun to their head they have a couple more in them.. this is why I do not agree with the REPS IN RESERVE theory.. if a person " thinks" they just went to failure but had two more in them then what is their 2 reps in reserve ? It's actually 4 reps in reserve.. so the best thing to do is go to " failure " or at least what you think is failure lol.. many are truly short changing their sessions

I agree I read a workout from a Pro that said he squatted 495 x 5 sets of 20 all to failure . Now common sense would say if your first set was to failure you wouldn’t be able to repeat it again and not for multiple sets . And he was known for crazy high volume and every set to failure

 

[TheOtherOne55]

1-3 (per exercise) depending on BP.
I'm mostly a top set and back-off set guy, but i also know that I have certain bodyparts just respond better to higher pump volume.
In those specific body parts, the working sets are much higher but I probably leave 1-2 reps in the tank per set there.
I basically run a high intensity, low volume leg day, and rotate that with a high volume, mod intensity day. Undulating periodization basically.
Works for me.

 

[xpoc]

I agree I read a workout from a Pro that said he squatted 495 x 5 sets of 20 all to failure . Now common sense would say if your first set was to failure you wouldn’t be able to repeat it again and not for multiple sets . And he was known for crazy high volume and every set to failure

I agree with your common sense belief. There is NO WAY this guy could do multiple sets to failure and just so happen to fail at 20 each time. Like, coincidentally his body just so happened to hit failure at the exact same number 5x? And failure on squats? As Phil Hernon said, if you fail at squats you end up in the bottom position. If you can safely rerack the bar in the upright position you didn't hit failure.

 

[alfresco]

I agree I read a workout from a Pro that said he squatted 495 x 5 sets of 20 all to failure . Now common sense would say if your first set was to failure you wouldn’t be able to repeat it again and not for multiple sets . And he was known for crazy high volume and every set to failure

Impossible, all sets were to failure, 20 reps., same weight. Like you said it would be descending reps unless he split it up over a day or two.

Then again I believe very little of what is written by a pro or about a pro. (Most are ghost written, or were.)

I have watched too many pros train and their workouts are nothing like what’s printed . . . but that was years ago, things could be different, giving them the benefit of doubt, we have video capture now, but still, unless I was there I’m not convinced with few exceptions.

 

[alfresco]

I’ve watch tons of pros and top amateurs train and very few go to failure even though they claim they do .

Me too.

First time I saw Arnold train (the original Golds on Pacific Ave, Venice) aside from his sheer enormity, size and shape that I totally unprepared mentally to accept, he did not workout nearly as had as I was led to believe. Franco was there, Waller, Birdsong and a bunch of other monsters, non trained like I expected or was led to believe how they trained.

Talk about a real mind fuck.

 

[alfresco]

Me too.

First time I saw Arnold train (the original Golds on Pacific Ave, Venice) aside from his sheer enormity, size and shape that I totally unprepared mentally to accept, he did not workout nearly as had as I was led to believe. Franco was there, Waller, Birdsong and a bunch of other monsters, non trained like I expected or was led to believe how they trained.

Talk about a real mind fuck.

Platz trained very very intensely as did Viator. Am sure there are a few others I watched, but those two are just off the top of my head.

Mentzer did not but while huge, I don’t think he was at his prime. Saw Ray train with him too, same deal, many sets, none to failure.

Ray actually had the potential to have a better, bigger more pleasing physique but he never really reached his potential in my opinion.

Oh . . . the Barbarian Bro’s trained crazy hard, with some of the movements were new to me.

 

[xpoc]

Here is a great video of a guy doing ONE set of squats with 405 to failure. I would like to meet the pro who said he does 5 sets to failure. Imagine pulling this guy off the floor with 3-4 minutes rest and tell him he has 4 more sets ;-)

 

[xpoc]

Platz trained very very intensely as did Viator. Am sure there are a few others I watched, but those two are just off the top of my head.

Mentzer did not but while huge, I don’t think he was at his prime. Saw Ray train with him too, same deal, many sets, none to failure.

Ray actually had the potential to have a better, bigger more pleasing physique but he never really reached his potential in my opinion.

Oh . . . the Barbarian Bro’s trained crazy hard, with some of the movements were new to me.

The Barbarian Bros were my inspiration as a kid. Them and the pro-rasslers the Road Warriors (Legion of Doom). My buddy and I drove from OC to Venice just to watch the Barbarians workout at Golds Gym. We bought tee-shirts, stood in the lobby area and just watched them. One of them picked his nose and wiped the boogar under the bench, then looked at us and smiled.

 

[alfresco]

The Barbarian Bros were my inspiration as a kid. Them and the pro-rasslers the Road Warriors (Legion of Doom). My buddy and I drove from OC to Venice just to watch the Barbarians workout at Golds Gym. We bought tee-shirts, stood in the lobby area and just watched them. One of them picked his nose and wiped the boogar under the bench, then looked at us and smiled.

Cool.

They were just as advertised, crazy mofo's. Dressed in work clothes,
levis and flannel shirts, load and brash. Stupid strong, rev bench's, etc.,
big, but not the most pleasing physiques from what little I saw, No?

I think one went off the deep end. Sad. They had a niche.

 

[alfresco]

Here is a great video of a guy doing ONE set of squats with 405 to failure. I would like to meet the pro who said he does 5 sets to failure. Imagine pulling this guy off the floor with 3-4 minutes rest and tell him he has 4 more sets ;-)

I agree.

Platz did some crazy high rep squatting infrequently. Met him
a few times in his prime, never saw him squat But do
remember his legs, could see the separation and veins through
his sweat pants. Total freak.

Viator, prior to his Mr. A victory at 19, he did 750 leg press x 20,
leg ext. 250 by 14-20, then squats 505 by 14-20.

All this with literally zero rest in between. I know somebody who was there.

Don't that will be repeated anytime soon.

Sergio was there too. Tried to duplicate it. Hit the ground like a used
condom when he got to squats. He was on the floor with folks beating
on his cramped quads which afforded him some rest, getting back
under a bar with 135.

Poor Sergio

 

[hawkmoon]

I take my last set to failure.
Straight sets when backing off a bit or "cruising", rest pause to failure when pushing.

For me failure is the last rep you can perform without totally messing up your form. A little body English is OK, but only a bit.

 

[ninetynineHGH]

If you are training for hypertrophy you need some sets at least close to failure at least every once in a while.

For strength and athletic performance, staying well under failure is helpful. Even for hypertrophy, strength-focused sessions or blocks of sessions that stay well under failure can be helpful because the increased strength will translate to more hypertrophy once you use bigger weights with hypertrophic training. If that makes sense.

As far as total volume goes (whether total sets to failure or total sets below failure, or some combination), it really is something you've got to experiment with yourself. Some guys seem to be able to beat themselves up pretty good, recover fast, and hit it hard again soon after. Other guys have to take it relatively easy, and need long recovery times between sessions, too.

Shouldn't need to be said but strength training incorporates low rep ranges (say, sub 5) while hypertrophy focuses more in higher ranges (say, 5 and up).

There is something to be said for Dante Trudel's method of using one weight until you can rep it 30 times, then increasing weight, then staying with that weight until you can rep it 30 times, then increasing weight, etc etc. For those who can actually make it work, it seems to be quite effective.

 

[Prada]

You failures go to failure? Chuckle
It’s beyond failure here baby!
I like J Meadows philosophy in general

 

[juggy38]

I think legs need to be “trained to failure” moreso than other body parts, because in reality, leg training hurts so much, when you hit “failure” on leg press rep 18, you could…like @LATS said, go to a very dark place and get some more. So each failure set even on tough guys is probably 2-3 RIR unless your a psycho (which some are….Jordan peters example)

And this same reason why widowmaker squats or leg press works, you just keep flirting with TRUE failure for like 3 minutes when you go 10 reps, 4 more, 3 more, 2 more, 2 more.

But like on tricep press downs….everyone can go to where the fucking thing won’t move if there was a gun to your head.

 

[qbkilla]

If you are training for hypertrophy you need some sets at least close to failure at least every once in a while.

For strength and athletic performance, staying well under failure is helpful. Even for hypertrophy, strength-focused sessions or blocks of sessions that stay well under failure can be helpful because the increased strength will translate to more hypertrophy once you use bigger weights with hypertrophic training. If that makes sense.

As far as total volume goes (whether total sets to failure or total sets below failure, or some combination), it really is something you've got to experiment with yourself. Some guys seem to be able to beat themselves up pretty good, recover fast, and hit it hard again soon after. Other guys have to take it relatively easy, and need long recovery times between sessions, too.

Shouldn't need to be said but strength training incorporates low rep ranges (say, sub 5) while hypertrophy focuses more in higher ranges (say, 5 and up).

There is something to be said for Dante Trudel's method of using one weight until you can rep it 30 times, then increasing weight, then staying with that weight until you can rep it 30 times, then increasing weight, etc etc. For those who can actually make it work, it seems to be quite effective.

Any links or more info on the 30 rep method? Or are you just referring to rest paused sets where rep range is say 15-30 RP?

 

[el hereje]

I like drop sets
10-12 reps to failure then drop the weight and repeat up to three sets.

 

[marssel]

What's your prefered style of training?

Multiple "working sets" or "Top sets" to failure per movement?

1 Failure set per movement?

Everything to failure fuck my CNS

Failure, Drop sets, giant sets, and GVT
GVT is so so under used.

 

[Earl]

I like to leave a few reps in tne tank cause I try to hit every body part twice a week

 

[qbkilla]

Failure, Drop sets, giant sets, and GVT
GVT is so so under used.

German volume training? That would be the opposite of high intensity failure and behind training wouldn't it?

Or your saying rotate it in between low volume high intensity blocks?

 

[ninetynineHGH]

Any links or more info on the 30 rep method? Or are you just referring to rest paused sets where rep range is say 15-30 RP?

Oversimplified: take a weight, do one set to failure. Do it again a couple days later, same weight. Stick with that weight until you can get 30 reps. Then increase the weight and start the process over.