training to failure

mdts · Nov 30, 2007

How often do you all go to failure on sets. Example( every set, 1 set per exercise, on cycle only, not during pct)
This is something I have wondered about for sometime because I always feel I am taking the easy road if I don't train to faillure on every set excluding warmups. And how many work set are do doing when you train to failure?

Ashop · Nov 30, 2007

mdts said:
How often do you all go to failure on sets. Example( every set, 1 set per exercise, on cycle only, not during pct)
This is something I have wondered about for sometime because I always feel I am taking the easy road if I don't train to faillure on every set excluding warmups. And how many work set are do doing when you train to failure?

I always trin to failure. If i dont I dont feel like I gave my workout its all.

M21SL · Nov 30, 2007

I agree with Alin, I always train to failure. Even if my target rep is 12, and i get to 12 and can still do more, i will still do more until failure. As soon as I feel failure coming on, I will stop though, I'm not a big fan of training to failure with forced reps. The number of sets depends on the system of training you do. If you do more of a volume approach and work the muscle less frequently, do more sets, but if you go real high intensity and work the muscle more often, maybe do a few less sets so you recover in time for your next lift with that muscle.

Dad · Nov 30, 2007

Rarely train to failure - it's a great way to overtrain.

Managed to survive all that Jones/Mentzer/SuperSlow nonsense, and after years of being tired, sore, and chonically overtrained, broke the habit.

Now we train to failure on ONE upper body and ONE lower body exercise per week - the rest is cut 1-2+ reps short of failure regardless of whether it's a high rep set or low rep set.

LATS · Dec 1, 2007

i agree with old pops.. i mean dad

i went to failure about every set.. now i cut it a rep or so short.. i feel much better and my joints are not as bad ect.. i was always frying my cns.. felt weak/shakey and tired the day after my sessions.. now i use the same low volume approach but, cut it short on my sets.. look forward to the workouts now.. and that is half the battle..

phatrr · Dec 1, 2007

I train to failure as little as possible; why would I want to train my body to fail on a lift? My goals are based on succeeding in the lifts. I want my nervous system to move the muscles through the complete exercise and full ROM, not to learn to strain isometrically and not move the bar.

But I'm an old fart.

When I was a youngster, I thought differently. I thought that if I didn't train to failure, I wasn't working hard enough.

Then one night I was taught a valuable lesson. I was doing seated cable rows with more weight than I had ever done, and just hit 12 reps, and was spent and going for failure on rep 13. I was putting everything into this set.

A hot babe walked over, squatted down beside me, pressing lightly against me, and whispered in my ear: "C'mon, I've never seen anybody use the whole stack before, gimme another rep, come on big guy..."

Sumbitch if I didn't pull out a few more reps.

Leading me to realize, years later, that failure is something I shouldn't strive for in anything, let alone in my training.

mdts · Dec 1, 2007

Bump for more Opinions
Those that aren't going to failure every set do you think that you are getting the same results as when you were going to failure on every set or better.

Dad · Dec 1, 2007

mdts said:
Bump for more Opinions
Those that aren't going to failure every set do you think that you are getting the same results as when you were going to failure on every set or better.

Way better NOT going to failure!

dalvare1 · Dec 1, 2007

I think somewhere in between is best.

I personally like to do 1 or 2 sets with a decent weight that will really get blood moving and go for 10-12 reps (not to failure) and then go all out for another 1-2 sets to failure.

I think training to failure EVERY set is a little too much and asking for injury/overtraining. Take squats for example!

doug1 · Dec 1, 2007

i have to completely agree with all that dad and lats said but i keep the volume high, i've been doing a slight variation of Serge Nubret's system for some time now and like it a lot. I spent(wasted) many years on the HIIT stuff, never gained any muscle and was tired all the time.

thebrick · Dec 1, 2007

Sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't. It depends on what my joints are telling me that week and how much coffee I've had

. Most of the time, these days, I don't. I try to concentrate more on "feeling" the muscle work and stop a rep or two short of failure. These days I am rationing the cartilage I have left.

dragonfire101 · Dec 1, 2007

Usually last set of each main exercise, which would consist of a couple rest pause reps after the target reps I was going for, then 1 drop set immediately after that for as many as possible.

On other exrecises for the same body part that day 1 drop set on last set.

Ironmanpits · Dec 1, 2007

Well...

I train DC mostly so my main goal is strength gains from one workout to the next while avoiding injury .. so I take my heaviest set to failure with a rest pause of 2-3 more reps with the same weight. The biggest obstacle I encounter is keeping the volume low because if I do too much I'm sore for way too long even with super supps. and lots of food (450+ grams of protein daily) I think my recovery genetics are not optimal.

Massive G · Dec 1, 2007

Dad said:
Rarely train to failure - it's a great way to overtrain.

Managed to survive all that Jones/Mentzer/SuperSlow nonsense, and after years of being tired, sore, and chonically overtrained, broke the habit.

Now we train to failure on ONE upper body and ONE lower body exercise per week - the rest is cut 1-2+ reps short of failure regardless of whether it's a high rep set or low rep set.

Lats said:
i agree with old pops.. i mean dad i went to failure about every set.. now i cut it a rep or so short.. i feel much better and my joints are not as bad ect.. i was always frying my cns.. felt weak/shakey and tired the day after my sessions.. now i use the same low volume approach but, cut it short on my sets.. look forward to the workouts now.. and that is half the battle..

both good posts most people over train and under eat.
How many people do you see training hard, breakin their asses?? A LOT. But you don't see people getting brutally huge unless they eat their asses off too and cycle their training intensity.

Deepsea · Dec 1, 2007

I go to failure on my last set. All the rest I do the numbers that I have set in my routine. If I can do the reps easily than I add weight. It's kind of my way of finding out when to add. I also sometimes go to failure on the last set and then drop weight and fail again. Usually I do this the week before I up the weight on my routine.

doug1 · Dec 2, 2007

what does the results of most training show? i look at two bodyparts to argue against the necessity of training to failure. The quads and forearms. How many guys give credit to squats for their leg size? A lot, when was the last time a guy squated to the point that he couldn't go up anymore? Next point, how many guys have bowling pin forearms and never directly train them? Guys always say, "well, they get hit indirectly from picking up dumbells, plates, etc." if that is true then they sure aren't even coming close to training their forearms to failure as I understand training to failure.
just some of my observations. i like to train the muscle, not overtax the nervous system.

Thor · Dec 2, 2007

GOOD OBSERVATION

doug1 said:
what does the results of most training show? i look at two bodyparts to argue against the necessity of training to failure. The quads and forearms. How many guys give credit to squats for their leg size? A lot, when was the last time a guy squated to the point that he couldn't go up anymore? Next point, how many guys have bowling pin forearms and never directly train them? Guys always say, "well, they get hit indirectly from picking up dumbells, plates, etc." if that is true then they sure aren't even coming close to training their forearms to failure as I understand training to failure.
just some of my observations. i like to train the muscle, not overtax the nervous system.

I like the way you put that, this is something I have wondered about for years.

Big Dave Smith · Dec 2, 2007

Dad said:
Way better NOT going to failure!

How do you explain the success of DC training in terms of muscle accumulation? I gone from 240lbs off-season to 270-275 in less than one year. Jan I'm on track for getting to 280lbs... at 5'9 and no more than 10% bodyfat. I'm one of many, and the number of DC'ers are high.

David Henry, Mark Dugdale, Dorian Yates, and the list goes on. It seems to me that most people who can't train to failure are the ones who can't force themselves to eat enough to recover. Most guys who can cut short a few reps and still grow are the guys who "had it" to begin with.

STEVO 47 · Dec 2, 2007

I always believe that for growth you need make the muscle do
something it's not use to and going to failure is one.

LATS · Dec 2, 2007

there are numerous ways to hypertrophy.. training to failure is just one of many.. overload ect is one of the others.. there are numerous guys who dont train to failure regular and are massive.. there are guys that train to failure that are massive.. one's pot of gold is anothers pile of crap.. it is all individual.. most powerlifters do not train to failure.. yet that hoist some massive numbers.. dc has done very well with his programs.. not all people recover well.. no matter how much they eat some people some suffer cns fatigue easily.. so do what works.. if ya like training to failure and can handle it, then so be it.. if you are gaining stopping short and that helps your recovery, then do it.. to each his own.. and remember , to make a muscle do what it is not "used to" all one needs to do is add a set or add reps.. overload can consist of numerous things.. not all are having to go to failure..