Training to failure

[Conciliator]

"the type 2b fibers which are the ones that cause the most dramatic growth only fire off when u hit failure"

Where in the world did you hear that myth?

No kidding.

To quote Bryan Haycock:

Keep in mind that "failure" is an indicator of central fatigue, not muscle strain. If you want to increase your resistance to fatigue, train to failure all the time. If you're only interested in effectively straining the muscle so that it'll get bigger, just focus on that and try to get past feeling like every set has to be a test of your manhood.

 

[robot]

I personally think the whole train to absolute failure thing is silly. I have no problem inducing tendonitis in just about any joint through high intensity lifting.

I don't see that as a good thing. Causing muscular failure and forcing the load on your joints, tendons, ligaments is a great way to short circuit effective programming. Injury sucks and tendon injuries are notoriously fussy and slow healing. Muscular strength and hypertrophy can be developed efficiently a lot more effectively if you aren't doing 12 weeks of rehab or working through an injury every workout.

 

[Twatta]

Bryan Haycock

How many Pro shows has he won? How many pro's does he train?

Just wondering?

 

[goonstopher]

How many Pro shows has he won? How many pro's does he train?

Just wondering?

BS logic here...

The most genetically gifted and most heavily enhanced bodybuilders DO NOT NEED to train perfectly to grow...

 

[PHIL HERNON]

You gotta know what failure is first.........positive failure? Negative failure? Static failure? Do you truly think that stopping at positive failure, which it NOT TRUE FAIURE, will ONLY increase your resistance to fatigue? That is BS and sounds like it is coming from someone who has never been on a pro stage because it takes a pro physique to do that which in turn means a LOT OF MUSCLE......and MUSCLE is what these guys want. A guy who has gone from A to Z knows how to just get to K...........a guy that has only been to M is just going to have to guess how to get to Z.

 

[Twatta]

BS logic?

I was just asking the question. If he seems to be the king of knowledge about the subject, he must be the king on stage?

If he was ALL that, then he must train most of the pros? IS that really BS?

 

[goonstopher]

I was just asking the question. If he seems to be the king of knowledge about the subject, he must be the king on stage?

If he was ALL that, then he must train most of the pros? IS that really BS?

So if you want to learn to run fast you would aks Usane Bolt? NO - You would look for a qualified speed trainer.

Pro bodybuilders (at least the top guys) do not apply to the average person in anyway. something can be true for the normal trainer and not true for a superior bodybuilder with better genetics and tolerances to drugs.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

So if you want to learn to run fast you would aks Usane Bolt? NO - You would look for a qualified speed trainer.

Pro bodybuilders (at least the top guys) do not apply to the average person in anyway. something can be true for the normal trainer and not true for a superior bodybuilder with better genetics and tolerances to drugs.

You dont need to be a pro to give good advice.......but you better have a lot of muscle at some point in your life to prove your theories correct. I am not talking about " lets get shredded" .....I am talking body BUILDING.......BUILDING MUSCLE......not helping someone shrink down to nothing.

 

[goonstopher]

You dont need to be a pro to give good advice.......but you better have a lot of muscle at some point in your life to prove your theories correct. I am not talking about " lets get shredded" .....I am talking body BUILDING.......BUILDING MUSCLE......not helping someone shrink down to nothing.

I guess you are right in most cases. But what about someone who has poor genetics and does not use steroids but uses these challenges to learn more and more and work with guys with those advantages.

I guess there is an exception to every rule but one old saying I laugh at is... You want to get big...? look at the biggest guy in the gym and do the exact opposite of what he is doing.

Some big guys (like yourself) learned a lot along the way and most small guys could use the advice of guys like you but the two are not mutually exclusive. Wasn't dan duchaine a pretty small guy? (again I may be wrong)

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Dan?

I guess you are right in most cases. But what about someone who has poor genetics and does not use steroids but uses these challenges to learn more and more and work with guys with those advantages.

I guess there is an exception to every rule but one old saying I laugh at is... You want to get big...? look at the biggest guy in the gym and do the exact opposite of what he is doing.

Some big guys (like yourself) learned a lot along the way and most small guys could use the advice of guys like you but the two are not mutually exclusive. Wasn't dan duchaine a pretty small guy? (again I may be wrong)

I would not say he was small......what huge guy did he train? Did he transform anyone? Do you realize how many drugs he suggested? I would call him a chemist if anything..........

 

[Ness]

You gotta know what failure is first.........positive failure? Negative failure? Static failure? Do you truly think that stopping at positive failure, which it NOT TRUE FAIURE, will ONLY increase your resistance to fatigue? That is BS and sounds like it is coming from someone who has never been on a pro stage because it takes a pro physique to do that which in turn means a LOT OF MUSCLE......and MUSCLE is what these guys want. A guy who has gone from A to Z knows how to just get to K...........a guy that has only been to M is just going to have to guess how to get to Z.

I think ya'lls should give this a 2nd and then maybe a 3rd read over...just in case you missed some pearls.

 

[gear-unit]

half reps help me alot to go to failure iwth super set drop set

 

[Equalizer]

You gotta know what failure is first.........positive failure? Negative failure? Static failure? Do you truly think that stopping at positive failure, which it NOT TRUE FAIURE, will ONLY increase your resistance to fatigue? That is BS and sounds like it is coming from someone who has never been on a pro stage because it takes a pro physique to do that which in turn means a LOT OF MUSCLE......and MUSCLE is what these guys want. A guy who has gone from A to Z knows how to just get to K...........a guy that has only been to M is just going to have to guess how to get to Z.

Now your just trying to over-complicate things. FAILURE= reaching a point during a set where you are unable to lift a weight for a complete rep due to muscle fatigue.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

Now your just trying to over-complicate things. FAILURE= reaching a point during a set where you are unable to lift a weight for a complete rep due to muscle fatigue.

Next time you are in that book check out plagiarism

 

[totalrecomp]

Next time you are in that book check out plagiarism

I think that Phil was trying to drive at the point that there are many different forms of failure and that one must define which one they are referring to in order to answer the question. For example this is a seated bench machine at my gym and it has a bar you press with your feet in order to get the handles to a more reasonable starting position, similar to the seated hamstring machine. Any who this allows me reach positive failure, then use my legs to press the bar and allow me to continue to do negatives till I reach negative failure, you could go even further and go for an additional static hold failure.

Many failures that can lead to our success.

 

[Equalizer]

Then you would be going beyond failure in that type of situation. In general when someone states that they train to failure, they are usually referring to positive failure.

 

[curls-for-girls]

This is and argument that I have been very confused about for a long time. I have read the information and books claiming you should train to failure (ie. Mike Metzer) and I have read the information saying you should NOT train to failure. its all very confusing. Especially to someone like myself that has only been training for a few years and has a lot to learn.
It would be cool to hear what some of the pros on here have to say, weather or not they recommend training to failure and what type of failure (ie. positive, negative, static)

 

[robot]

It takes more years of continuous lifting than I have put in to make tendons strong enough to handle this kind of training. These advanced techniques regularly leave me with aching tendons and mangled joints.

I envy those blessed born with big joints when it comes to heaving around the weight.

I can regularily work to positive failure but beyond that is a recipe for pain. Hopefully in a few more years my tendons will thicken up. They may never. Like other sports it may simply be necessary to start young and put in a solid 10 years before your body has fully adapted.

 

[nickman1978]

Been in the gym for 10 yrs and never asked for a spot, perhaps people volunteer becuase they see me struggle with the last rep. Wish I had a gym partner, very difficult to find especially when you're anti-social in the gym like myself.

x2 on that there my freind...

 

[sexyboy]

Bingo!!! I hate training partners. They are unreliable, demotivating, and not trustworthy for shit IMO. :banghead: IPOD and earphones seem to be the best training partner I have ever had. They never show up late, don't complain, and are never hungover. The perfect partner! If you can't tell I have had some shitty experiences with partners. But to actually answer the question... Rest pause, drop sets, compound sets, etc...

amen! im not trying to be a pro bber anyway. I can tell you what iv switched to a dorian yates style hit and only doing one set to failure and one or two pumps ups. iv seen much better results compared to the going to failure every set.

now that i train by myself my one working set ill do a complete rest puase on some but on therers ill stop for 5 seconds and get a few more reps out.

SB