Trenbolone lowers T4 and T3

[tr]

If trenbolone lower T4 and T3 (up to 45% ) how it can be one of the greatest fat burners? How does tren fat burning mechanism works?

Here is an avenue that has not been explored in this thread: The potential relationship between trenbolone, thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) and prolactin. TRH stimulates the synthesis and release of thyrotropin (thyroid stimulating hormone) from the pituitary. Thyrotropin in turn stimulates the release of the thyroid hormones. A negative feedback loop exists whereby low levels of T4 stimulate the release of TRH (1).

It has been established that in humans TRH is also capable of stimulating the release of prolactin (2). In hypothyroid patients there is often an elevation of TRH and prolactin due to diminished levels of T4. (3) Galactorrhea often presents as a symptom of hypothyroidism.

In sheep, administration of trenbolone acetate results in 45% decrease in thyroxine levels (4). This should exert a stimulatory effect on TRH. ( Interestingly, the same study shows that unlike in humans prolactin levels in the sheep remained unchanged. This is due to the fact that in sheep, unlike in humans, TRH and prolactin are secreted independently of each other (5).)

If it assumed that trenbolone acetate also lowers thyroxine levels in humans, the resulting rise in TRH would stimulate prolactin release, leading to galactorrhea and gynecomastia.

Due to the lack of human studies involving tren, we are all forced to speculate, and try to extrapolate from animal studies.

(1)Endocrinology 1999 Jan;140(1):43-9

Feedback regulation of thyrotropin-releasing hormone gene expression by thyroid hormone in the caudal raphe nuclei in rats.

Yang H, Yuan P, Wu V, Tache Y.
Digestive Diseases Research Center, West Los Angeles VA Medical Center, Department of Medicine and Brain Research Institute, UCLA, California 90073, USA. [email protected]

(2)Goodman and Gilman's The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics 8th ed. pp.1345-1346

(3) : Endocr J 1997 Feb;44(1):89-94

Incidence of hyperprolactinemia in patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis.
Notsu K, Ito Y, Furuya H, Ohguni S, Kato Y.
Department of Medicine, Shimane Prefectural Central Hospital, Izumo, Japan.

(4)Res Vet Sci 1981 Jan;30(1):7-13

Growth hormone, insulin, prolactin and total thyroxine in the plasma of sheep implanted with the anabolic steroid trenbolone acetate alone or with oestradiol.

Donaldson IA, Hart IC, Heitzman RJ.

(5) Endocrinol 1988 Apr;117(1):115-22

Release of prolactin is independent of the secretion of thyrotrophin-releasing hormone into hypophysial portal blood of sheep.

Thomas GB, Cummins JT, Yao B, Gordon K, Clarke IJ.
Medical Research Centre, Prince Henry's Hospital, Melbourne, Australia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, finally!!! you hit the nail right on the head.

Fina is a VERY POWERFUL anti-glucocorticoid, so what
exactly does it do to reduce endogeneous cortisone
levels?

There is only ONE mechanism:

A reduction in the TOTAL Free T4 and T3 levels within the
body.

T3 is HIGHLY catabolic to muscle, therefore by reducing it by(
take 45% as shown by Nandi as an example), you are
exerting a ridiculously high protein-sparing effect.

YES, thats right, Fina is not THAT anabolic IN VIVO, it is
far, and I do mean FAR more of an ANTI-CATABOLIC
AAS than anything else.

Ok, now lets back-track to the problem at hand.

TSH has been reduced by the trenbolone, which in
turns signals the thyroid to reduce endogeneously
produced levels of T3 and T4.

This reduction(As Nandi mentioned) causes a VERY
sharp drop in free T3 levels because of the reduction
in both the endogeneously produced T4 and T3.
(Remember that 80% of the free T3 is produced from
the metabolically inactive T4)

These dimished levels of T3,T4 cause Thyrotropin Releasing
Hormone(TRH) to become OVER-STIMULATED.

In essence, this is your bodies feed-back loop to reduced
thyroid hormones, due to a GLUCO-CORTICOID suppresive
effect. This is however NOT like hypothyroidic patients
who have a naturally defective(or damaged) thyroid.

When TRH becomes over-stimulated the net effect is
a VERY sharp increase in prolactin levels.

Critical here.....

I.E. YOU BEGIN TO LACTATE!!!!!

Now, herein lies the problem. Everybody is bio-chemically
different, therefore the TRH increase is EXTREMELY
broad-spectrum.

While someone will stimulate TRH say X% and ultimately
cause a rise in prolactin of say Y% with a daily
dosage of 50mg ED of Fina, another person will
cause a 2X% rise in TRH and 2Y+% rise in prolactin
which will invariably lead to gyno.

This is just genetics. Nothing can be done about this.

However, there are ways to combat prolactin-elevations:

This btw, HAS TO BE EXACT. If you over-dose you cause
a progestenic shift due to severely inhibited prolactin levels,
or if you under-dose you run the risk of getting prolactin
induced gyno.

As a note: PROGESTERONE does NOT, I repeat NOT come into
play with Fina at all. It only becomes into play when you're
trying to inhibit prolactin synthetically.

The only thing that can combat Fina-induced Gyno is:

1. 2.5mgs Bromocriptine broken down to 1.25mgs 2X/day
AM and PM.

Thats it.

No Vitex/Nolva/clomid/Arimidex or whatever. They don't
work for Fina.

Those would work well with deca. Winny would be the only help I would see with A-drol. That is one crazy substance.

Peace

 

[waynaferd]

I read something about that while searching about T3 before using it....

No sure nswer to the fat burning but theres more than one way to burn fat...

 

[Juice3000]

No aas is a "fat burner". Fat loss is essentially a side effect as tren increases feed efficiency and is Muscle sparing in a caloric deficit. You can sure as fuck get fat on tren if you want. This whole cutting drugs and bulking drugs is a crock of shit. Some have better uses than others in different aspects, but your diet will typically determine the results of whatever chemical you're putting into your body.

 

[thatbloke]

ive had my thyroids checked while on 600mgs of trenbelone weekly

thyroid function was completely normal

i dont really believe tren lowers thyroid production like it does on animals, just like clen isnt a very good fat burner or muscle builder like it is for horses

just my views

 

[buresu]

It has definetely lowered mine..while on 600mg tren e for 6 weeks I've checked my thyroid hormones and my TSH was 36 (normal range: 0.6-4.0)...3 months later it came down to 6.5

 

[itrain]

Ltyrosine fixes this... it also depends if your using pellets or powders... different effects

 

[tr]

No aas is a "fat burner". Fat loss is essentially a side effect as tren increases feed efficiency and is Muscle sparing in a caloric deficit. You can sure as fuck get fat on tren if you want. This whole cutting drugs and bulking drugs is a crock of shit. Some have better uses than others in different aspects, but your diet will typically determine the results of whatever chemical you're putting into your body.

This is very interesting too...according to article T3 is very catabolic, that means those who has very low T3 levels spares protein/builds muscle at the maximum rate? And it's probably the most stupid things to take T4 and/ot T3 while bulking "to get lean gains"?

ive had my thyroids checked while on 600mgs of trenbelone weekly

thyroid function was completely normal

i dont really believe tren lowers thyroid production like it does on animals, just like clen isnt a very good fat burner or muscle builder like it is for horses

just my views

Thyroid or T4/T3? I don't think it was mentioned that it lowers thyroid in the article, it lower T4 and T3 which was already produced by thyroid. If I'm not mistaken. So you can have normal TSH, but lower T3 and T4 than normal (I have had this after a week on tren)

It has definetely lowered mine..while on 600mg tren e for 6 weeks I've checked my thyroid hormones and my TSH was 36 (normal range: 0.6-4.0)...3 months later it came down to 6.5

what was your T4 and T3 levels?

Ltyrosine fixes this... it also depends if your using pellets or powders... different effects

What's the difference?

 

[buresu]

I've just checked the actual numbers which came out :

TSH : 33.71 (0.35-4.94)
free T3 : 2.04 (1.71-3.71)
free T4 : 0.75 (0.70-1.48)

so T3 & T4 were in the normal range, but TSH was waay out of the normal level...TSH above the normal range means hypothyroidsm (thyroid gland working slow) TSH below the normal range means hyperthyroidsm (thyroid gland working too fast)

 

[tr]

I've just checked the actual numbers which came out :

TSH : 33.71 (0.35-4.94)
free T3 : 2.04 (1.71-3.71)
free T4 : 0.75 (0.70-1.48)

so T3 & T4 were in the normal range, but TSH was waay out of the normal level...TSH above the normal range means hypothyroidsm (thyroid gland working slow) TSH below the normal range means hyperthyroidsm (thyroid gland working too fast)

well IMO, you have hypothyroidism. According to articleTren affects T4 and T3, but not TSH. Hope anyone more experienced could tell more accurate

In may case - it's oposite, I was on tren and did lab tests my TSH was normal (1.85) but my T4 (0.52) and T3 (1.56) was low.

 

[buresu]

well IMO, you have hypothyroidism. According to articleTren affects T4 and T3, but not TSH. Hope anyone more experienced could tell more accurate

In may case - it's oposite, I was on tren and did lab tests my TSH was normal (1.85) but my T4 (0.52) and T3 (1.56) was low.

yep you're right, I've been diagnosed with hypothroidsm ca.15 years ago..was taking my medicine called "euthyrox" everyday with the required amount...after I started my test/tren cycle TSH raised to 33 as mentioned before...before the cycle it was within the normal ranges...but T3/T4 stayed surprisingly in the normal ranges

 

[Kaladryn]

Of course tren lowers thyroid, ANYTHING that increases metabolism will LOWER thyroid IF food intake is kept the same.

List of things that also increase metabolism and will lead to lower thyroid IF food intake is not increased:

Cold weather
Cardio
Physical Jobs
Stimulants of any kind
etc...

Basically anything that causes your body to burn MORE calories will DECREASE thyroid production in order to maintain homeostasis.

Now take any one of these things, and INCREASED food intake, and you will maintain thyroid levels, or even increase them. Thyroid changes in response to a lack or surplus of calories...

 

[rutger177]

yep you're right, I've been diagnosed with hypothroidsm ca.15 years ago..was taking my medicine called "euthyrox" everyday with the required amount...after I started my test/tren cycle TSH raised to 33 as mentioned before...before the cycle it was within the normal ranges...but T3/T4 stayed surprisingly in the normal ranges

I think in your case, the hypothyroidism explains the spike in TSH. You only have a fixed amount of thyroid hormone available that you take daily. Test/Tren is causing a demand for more thyroid but you can't produce it. I don't believe a euthyroid person would experience this at all.

What's more important here is having a TSH of 6-something 3 months later suggests you're underdosed.

 

[buresu]

I think in your case, the hypothyroidism explains the spike in TSH. You only have a fixed amount of thyroid hormone available that you take daily. Test/Tren is causing a demand for more thyroid but you can't produce it. I don't believe a euthyroid person would experience this at all.

What's more important here is having a TSH of 6-something 3 months later suggests you're underdosed.

Currently my daily dosage is 225mcg, which is very high...Tsh is always a little above the normal range..usually between 6-8, according to my endo a higher dosage than that will stress my heart and may lead to cardiovascular disfunction..so I guess I'm a special case ( during my tren cycle I didn't increase my daily dosage and just let it go...3 months after the cycle it came down to approx.6 and that's considered ok for me)

 

[buresu]

Of course tren lowers thyroid, ANYTHING that increases metabolism will LOWER thyroid IF food intake is kept the same.

List of things that also increase metabolism and will lead to lower thyroid IF food intake is not increased:

Cold weather
Cardio
Physical Jobs
Stimulants of any kind
etc...

Basically anything that causes your body to burn MORE calories will DECREASE thyroid production in order to maintain homeostasis.

Now take any one of these things, and INCREASED food intake, and you will maintain thyroid levels, or even increase them. Thyroid changes in response to a lack or surplus of calories...

Thanx for the info Kaladryn...didn't know that!

 

[rutger177]

Currently my daily dosage is 225mcg, which is very high...Tsh is always a little above the normal range..usually between 6-8, according to my endo a higher dosage than that will stress my heart and may lead to cardiovascular disfunction..so I guess I'm a special case ( during my tren cycle I didn't increase my daily dosage and just let it go...3 months after the cycle it came down to approx.6 and that's considered ok for me)

It's only a high dose if you're suppressing TSH -- otherwise dose is meaningless. T4 is famous for absorbtion issues.

Keeping a patient subclinically hypothyroid is not the way to protect the heart. Hypothyroidism is bad for the heart too.

If you are symptomatic, you should be properly treated.

 

[buresu]

It's only a high dose if you're suppressing TSH -- otherwise dose is meaningless. T4 is famous for absorbtion issues.

Keeping a patient subclinically hypothyroid is not the way to protect the heart. Hypothyroidism is bad for the heart too.

If you are symptomatic, you should be properly treated.

I'm since 3 years on HRT, having cycles in between...does test also supress thyroid function...I'm doing it by myself without the knowledge of my endo.

 

[buresu]

waow..just found this regarding my question :

**broken link removed**


1. Exogenous testosterone suppresses testicular testosterone production AND testicular thyroid releasing hormone (TRH) production. This reduces brain TSH production, lowering thyroid hormone production from the thyroid gland.

2. Exogenous testosterone may reduce liver production of thyroid binding globulin. This reduces the half-life of thyroid hormone. This leads to a reduction in available thyroid hormone.

3. Exogenous testosterone can lead to a simultaneous conversion of testosterone to estradiol. The increase in estradiol can increase liver production of thyroid binding globulin. This can lead to a reduction in free thyroid hormone levels (Free T3, Free T4). This then reduces thyroid signaling.

 

[sloh]

waow..just found this regarding my question :

**broken link removed**


1. Exogenous testosterone suppresses testicular testosterone production AND testicular thyroid releasing hormone (TRH) production. This reduces brain TSH production, lowering thyroid hormone production from the thyroid gland.

2. Exogenous testosterone may reduce liver production of thyroid binding globulin. This reduces the half-life of thyroid hormone. This leads to a reduction in available thyroid hormone.

3. Exogenous testosterone can lead to a simultaneous conversion of testosterone to estradiol. The increase in estradiol can increase liver production of thyroid binding globulin. This can lead to a reduction in free thyroid hormone levels (Free T3, Free T4). This then reduces thyroid signaling.

Thanks for posting that.

I was dieting naturally and losing body fat steadily and then started a trial run of TRT at 100 mg of test per week + 100 mg of masteron. It completely blunted my flat loss and I couldn't lose bodyfat even after lowering cals by 500 from when I was natural. This is probably individual since I haven't heard of it happening to many people, but I'm guessing exogenous test does lower my thyroid function.

 

[buresu]

As I've mentioned before I'm on TRT for almost 3 years now, since then I have undulant thyroid levels

 

[j8282]

I was falling asleep and yawning all day and had my thyroid checked. He prescribed me t4 and it took about a week then I was back to my normal self for the most part. So I think it does lower your thyroid levels.