Trens impact on metabolism/TDEE

[Worldsfastestfatty]

Hey

Please don't think is another thinly "can I take tren and eat junk food" reddit-esque question; however do you feel tren has any significant impact on BMR/TDEE?

My reason for asking; I did experiment with tren last year - I got strong, I also got incredibly lethargic. I got super hungry all the bleeding time and my increased appetite combined with significantly reduced energy expenditure meant I gain a little sloppy weight.

I appreciate I'm possibly an outlier - I'm a very energetic person (not on tren ) and a bit of a fidgit. My maintenance at 85kg is around 6000kcals if that gives you an idea of my energy levels (I train 4-5 hours a day across different sessions and energy systems). However I'm constantly hearing from others "tren turns me into a black hole of energy, I have to eat 1000s of kcal over maintenance just to nudge the scale" or "you can't out eat tren" - I find this somewhat implausible, but as it's not my area of expertise (and I don't fancy using tren again to find out first hand) - do you feel these statements are true? OR are these people unreliable narrators? Not eating as much as they think?

 

[luki7788]

in general, the more androgens, the faster the metabolism will be, trenbolone is 5x more androgenic than testosterone and has a huge impact on better partitioning of macronutrients, so there is some truth in this, but without exaggeration - if you eat too much you will be fat even on 2g trenbolone and 30iu gh

 

[Gunsmith]

it definitely leans me out , I’ve never used it outside of a contest prep where I’m hungry and tired anyway.
id say it definitely increases you metabolism some

what was your dose??
why are you training 4-5 hrs a day

 

[Worldsfastestfatty]

it definitely leans me out , I’ve never used it outside of a contest prep where I’m hungry and tired anyway.
id say it definitely increases you metabolism some

what was your dose??
why are you training 4-5 hrs a day

Dose was 300mg tren A per week (daily shots) for 8 weeks. I just did it to experience it, I've no intention of running that compound again.

I primarily train 4-5 hours a day because I enjoy it. I do a mix of various endurance work (running, cycling and swimming predominantly), speed work (mostly sprinting but am also fond of a session on the BMX track) and S&C work (powerlifting, Oly lifting and associated accessory works). Even training like this I'm still a bit jittery - I don't sit still much - I'm like one of them ADD kids!

I do compete in amatuer leagues in a few areas but mostly just train because i genuinely enjoy moving and being active. My previous career was very heavy physical work; now I'm a lazy bum consultant working 20 hours a month so I have time to burn

 

[cmryan]

Hey

Please don't think is another thinly "can I take tren and eat junk food" reddit-esque question; however do you feel tren has any significant impact on BMR/TDEE?

My reason for asking; I did experiment with tren last year - I got strong, I also got incredibly lethargic. I got super hungry all the bleeding time and my increased appetite combined with significantly reduced energy expenditure meant I gain a little sloppy weight.

I appreciate I'm possibly an outlier - I'm a very energetic person (not on tren ) and a bit of a fidgit. My maintenance at 85kg is around 6000kcals if that gives you an idea of my energy levels (I train 4-5 hours a day across different sessions and energy systems). However I'm constantly hearing from others "tren turns me into a black hole of energy, I have to eat 1000s of kcal over maintenance just to nudge the scale" or "you can't out eat tren" - I find this somewhat implausible, but as it's not my area of expertise (and I don't fancy using tren again to find out first hand) - do you feel these statements are true? OR are these people unreliable narrators? Not eating as much as they think?

So, I don't have hard data on tren's impact on TDEE. The general line of thought is that it does increase thyroid hormone output at least temporarily before it coming crashing back down to earth. I've read that it is most commonly thought the period of upregulation lasts from 6-8 weeks.

As to the lethargy, a thought I recently had was that it may have something to do tren's impact on cortisol and other glucocorticoids. If we have a smaller amount of cortisol available when blood glucose gets low, then blood glucose may not be elevated sufficiently and we might presumably get drowsy and hungry. That's just a thought that I don't hear people discuss in the context of tren. Might be completely wrong but thought I'd throw it out there when I read your post.

Btw, I know you're a serious endurance athlete, how do you feel tren impacted your breathing/conditioning? I'd really like to try using a small amount on a cruise but even modest amounts turn me into an asthmatic.

 

[Worldsfastestfatty]

So, I don't have hard data on tren's impact on TDEE. The general line of thought is that it does increase thyroid hormone output at least temporarily before it coming crashing back down to earth. I've read that it is most commonly thought the period of upregulation lasts from 6-8 weeks.

As to the lethargy, a thought I recently had was that it may have something to do tren's impact on cortisol and other glucocorticoids. If we have a smaller amount of cortisol available when blood glucose gets low, then blood glucose may not be elevated sufficiently and we might presumably get drowsy and hungry. That's just a thought that I don't hear people discuss in the context of tren. Might be completely wrong but thought I'd throw it out there when I read your post.

Btw, I know you're a serious endurance athlete, how do you feel tren impacted your breathing/conditioning? I'd really like to try using a small amount on a cruise but even modest amounts turn me into an asthmatic.

Tren pooched my conditioning big time, but I expected it to. I could still run & cycle at zone 2 type paces but it was noticably harder and wasnt as enjoyable

 

[Performance Based]

I cannot speak on tren but I do have variations when I get my basal measured with different levels of androgens in my system.

Noticeable changes in energy consumption/needs as well during high output cardio events.

 

[Type-IIx]

Rather than increasing TDEE (a function of RMR, NEAT [e.g., fidgeting], EAT [formal exercise], and TEF [thermic effect of feeding, energy consumed by digestion, etc.]), Tren's effects on fat loss are multifactoral. Tren, and androgen (synonym: AAS) generally, increase skeletal muscle and decrease fat mass; and this decrease in fat mass is not explained merely by the increased metabolic cost of skeletal muscle tissue (synthesis and/or maintenance); it is substantially greater.

Tren causes fat loss by:
* antiadipogenic effects (committment of preadipocytes to a myogenic [muscle tissue] rather than an adipogenic [fat cell] lineage)... envision fat synthesis as a constant process of churn, with turnover of fat cells, with the balance between anabolic processes (lipogenesis) vs. catabolic processes (fat oxidation) constantly in flux
* reducing the quantity of fatty acid incorporation into triglyceride in adipocytes (reduced lipid accumulation; storage of fat within fat cells)
* lipolysis (via the catalytic subunit of cAMP or by ↑β-adrenoreceptor number in adipocytes)

These mechanisms reduce fat mass without reliance on increasing energy expenditure.

I know: "there is no fat loss without a negative calorie balance," they said. Well actually, with drugs, there can be (and routinely, is). This is because hormones dictate to a great extent the abundance of anabolic vs catabolic processes (recall, e.g., lipogenesis vs. fat oxidation & the constant flux of various metabolic processes above).

Newton's law of thermodynamics applies to weight or body mass changes; at a constant bodyweight (energy balance), there can be recomp (this is due to effects on the so-called p-ratio; or partitioning) via these processes.

 

[Orville Shreddenbacher]

I was gonna do a winter run of 900mg test e and 600 eq . Was thinking about small dose of tren for nutrient partitioning purposes , I'm thinking 35 mg tren ace eod . Any idea what the minimum dose of tren for that purpose would be effective ?

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Two things can also be true.
Teen can increase your ability to partition calories (the good) AND Tren can severely limit your cardio output (the bad).
You had both.

 

[qbkilla]

I just recently dropped tren and upped my test prop (200/200) to 400 prop. Consistent with any other time I switch or adjust drugs, it doesn't increase or decrease my weight. My weight is totally dependent on my calorie intake.

 

[GreenTLB6]

I was gonna do a winter run of 900mg test e and 600 eq . Was thinking about small dose of tren for nutrient partitioning purposes , I'm thinking 35 mg tren ace eod . Any idea what the minimum dose of tren for that purpose would be effective ?

I can tell you I’m running 30mg EOD right now (last 4 weeks) with 300 test and 200 mast and there has been a significant change in body comp (I am in a slight deficit right now) and strength has gone up. I have never run this low a dose but I’m glad I tried it. Would I be bigger , harder, and leaner if I was running 3-400 a week? Yes. But this is a nice little addition to a low dose cycle with really no bad side effects (I have been a bit more chippy lately but I think that’s work stress and lowered carbs - that’s just how I am, just being honest).

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

I was gonna do a winter run of 900mg test e and 600 eq . Was thinking about small dose of tren for nutrient partitioning purposes , I'm thinking 35 mg tren ace eod . Any idea what the minimum dose of tren for that purpose would be effective ?

Two things can also be true.
Teen can increase your ability to partition calories (the good) AND Tren can severely limit your cardio output (the bad).
You had both.

I was going to also mention nutrient partitioning. Great points here. Seems like some compounds have an effect on how carbohydrates can be utilized, burned and stored in the muscle. Carbohydrates may be able to be bumped, but I highly doubt high fats, or super junky food(Processed, high refined sugar, carb, fat, etc) will create the same outcome.

 

[TheRoid]

I cannot speak on tren but I do have variations when I get my basal measured with different levels of androgens in my system.

Noticeable changes in energy consumption/needs as well during high output cardio events.

To what degree does EQ affects your basal?

 

[Performance Based]

To what degree does EQ affects your basal?

Rough numbers - notes are at the house. Basal is taken after one full day of recovery.

200mg test - 4,800
200mg test + 800eq - 5,700
200mg test + 600eq + 300 primo - 5,850
200mg test + 800eq + 600 primo - 6,500
200mg test + 800eq + 600 primo + 100 nandro + 50mg anavar - 7,700

This is with three a day training
30 warm up + 60-90 performance cardio
30 warm up + 90 durability
60-90 skills based training

2IU GH administered fasted all mornings

 

[thedorkyd1]

in general, the more androgens, the faster the metabolism will be, trenbolone is 5x more androgenic than testosterone and has a huge impact on better partitioning of macronutrients, so there is some truth in this, but without exaggeration - if you eat too much you will be fat even on 2g trenbolone and 30iu gh

You calling me fat?

 

[luki7788]

You calling me fat?

I didn't know you increased the gh at 30iu

 

[thedorkyd1]

I didn't know you increased the gh at 30iu

Did for a few months haha. Back at 20 now, too expensivee

 

[Type-IIx]

Rough numbers - notes are at the house. Basal is taken after one full day of recovery.

200mg test - 4,800
200mg test + 800eq - 5,700
200mg test + 600eq + 300 primo - 5,850
200mg test + 800eq + 600 primo - 6,500
200mg test + 800eq + 600 primo + 100 nandro + 50mg anavar - 7,700

This is with three a day training
30 warm up + 60-90 performance cardio
30 warm up + 90 durability
60-90 skills based training

2IU GH administered fasted all mornings

Unfortunately, devices such as yours for estimating energy expenditure are universally and notoriously unreliable. Androgen/AAS does not increase RMR/BMR. Stronger by Science wrote on the topic of wearables and energy expenditure, unreliability: https://www.strongerbyscience.com/research-spotlight-wearables/

 

[qbkilla]

Unfortunately, devices such as yours for estimating energy expenditure are universally and notoriously unreliable. Androgen/AAS does not increase RMR/BMR. Stronger by Science wrote on the topic of wearables and energy expenditure, unreliability: https://www.strongerbyscience.com/research-spotlight-wearables/

I have to agree with this based on my experience. Adding those dosages of AAS would not allow me to eat 60 percent more than I'm eating now. If this was the case why would people need to diet, we could simply add AAS and the far would melt off like dnp. People would have to greatly in their food not to lose weight when using AAS. Not saying he is trying to mislead but I find those numbers shocking and question them.