Trestolone Ace

[cmryan]

The link doesn’t provide any information. Can you copy/paste it.

Nothing? Pulled up a pdf for me.

 

[luki7788]

https://web.archive.org/web/2020031....fi/bitstream/handle/10138/20228/7alphame.pdf

found this 2000 study on MENT lots of great information.

really interesting article - interesting and the research showed that MENT aromatizes to a very small extent only in 0.03% - so I wonder what causes it to cause so much water retention - it's possible that it has some effect on estrogen receptors, which causes symptoms of aromatization

 

[gains4000]

really interesting article - interesting and the research showed that MENT aromatizes to a very small extent only in 0.03% - so I wonder what causes it to cause so much water retention - it's possible that it has some effect on estrogen receptors, which causes symptoms of aromatization

@Type-IIx had written an article that MENT estrogen is 4x more potent than normal e2. But MENT itself aromatizes at the same rate as nandrolone , but the actual estrogen from MENT is much stronger. The estrogen from nandrolone is normal e2 while MENT is 7a-methyl-estradiol.

you use a lot of testosterone on MENT, maybe you would try dropping it and just see how much ment aromatizes alone? myself and @Mike Arnold beleive arimidex and aromasin don't work on MENT estrogen as well.

 

[nothuman]

really interesting article - interesting and the research showed that MENT aromatizes to a very small extent only in 0.03% - so I wonder what causes it to cause so much water retention - it's possible that it has some effect on estrogen receptors, which causes symptoms of aromatization

Well this probably explains why estradiol doesn't really change if you get your level tested on it

 

[nothuman]

you use a lot of testosterone on MENT, maybe you would try dropping it and just see how much ment aromatizes alone? myself and @Mike Arnold beleive arimidex and aromasin don't work on MENT estrogen as well.

Perhaps we can theorize that arimidex or aromasin don't work well on ment because they only work on lowering the estradiol level, which ment does not increase?

 

[nothuman]

https://web.archive.org/web/2020031....fi/bitstream/handle/10138/20228/7alphame.pdf

found this 2000 study on MENT lots of great information.

Wow, this is the most thorough information I've seen on MENT. The trials were dosages anywhere from 0.5mg to 8mg, injectable and pellet implants.

Some other takeaways here...
SHBG lowers. DHT lowers. IGF1 doesn't change

Here is the conclusion copy n paste
"The main conclusions that can be drawn from the results of this study are as follows: MENT has pharmacokinetic properties that make it suitable for long-term androgen administration via subdermal implants releasing MENT acetate, a MENT ester that is rapidly converted to MENT in vivo. MENT has strong suppressive effects on serum LH, FSH, and testosterone secretion. The results of this study are consistent with the results of previous in vitro and animal studies. All available data on MENT suggest that it is a potent androgen and a very promising candidate for hormonal male contraception and long-term androgen replacement therapy"

 

[bad rad]

I did a decent run of 300mgs Test/Trest and the bloat was ridiculous. No amount of AI would control it. I've since dropped back to 20mgs/day of both and dropped a lot of bloat with similar strength levels. It doesn't make sense but I'm way more comfortable.

 

[nothuman]

Honestly guys, I can't even handle more than 5mg MENT per day anymore without needing to abuse nebivolol and telmisartan just to keep my systolic BP and heart rate in check.

 

[gains4000]

Perhaps we can theorize that arimidex or aromasin don't work well on ment because they only work on lowering the estradiol level, which ment does not increase?

No I still think Ment aromatizes and it’s potent estrogen , but it can’t be controlled bc it’s converts to methyl estradiol via the liver and not adipose tissue.

Another thing is Nandrolone probably converts to estrogen, not through the action of aromatase, but through the action of organic acids or alkalines in the body that act on nandrolone after it is converted to its 1-beta hydroxylated derivative. This means that estrogen inhibitors like Arimidex, which decrease the activity of aromatase, may not stop nandrolone from aromatizing to estrogen.
Trestolone is a nandrolone derivative so we can observe the similarities.

 

[gains4000]

Dimethandrolone (7α,11β-dimethyl-19-nortestosterone) and 11β-methyl-19-nortestosterone are not converted to aromatic A-ring products in the presence of recombinant human aromatase

Dimethandrolone undecanoate (DMAU: 7α,11β-dimethyl-19-nortestosterone 17β-undecanoate) is a potent orally active androgen in development for hormonal therapy in men. Cleavage of the 17β-ester bond by esterases in vivo leads ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In the case of MENT and 19-NT, the amount of substrate decreased slightly with increasing incubation times, and small peaks corresponding to the hypothetical aromatic A-ring products, 7α-ME and E2, respectively, were first detected at 40 min (7α-ME) or 120 min (E2)(Fig. 6). At 180 min, about 23% of MENT was converted to 7α-ME and about 13% of 19-NT to E2. In agreement with de Gooyer et al. [5], we found no evidence for the aromatization of the 19-norprogestin NET to 17α-EE (data not shown).

 

[specter]

Ment converts to methyl estradiol like dbol so aromasin or arimidex will work fine, also one thing we dont know is how much cross receptor activation is there, like with anadrol wich is a DHT so it cant aromatize yet it causes gyno, i have talked with Scott Stevenson about this several times.

 

[gains4000]

also , if doctors/scientists concluded that 0.5mg/d of MENT treats hypogonadism that would mean the Estrogenic metabolite is more powerful than Normal E2. Anywhere from 400mcg-1.6mg was used in studies. Very low doses.

 

[gains4000]

Ment converts to methyl estradiol like dbol so aromasin or arimidex will work fine, also one thing we dont know is how much cross receptor activation is there, like with anadrol wich is a DHT so it cant aromatize yet it causes gyno, i have talked with Scott Stevenson about this several times.

The aromatase reaction is a complex, multi-step pathway involving a number of enzymatic reactions.7 It is present in many different tissue types (brain, ovary, adipose, placenta, etc.) and across many different species (human, horse, pig, etc.).10-13 In fact, even certain bacteria are capable of aromatizing androgens.7 In part, solving the hypothesis regarding any possible interaction of nandrolone with the aromatase reaction has been muddied by studying the enzyme system using vastly different sources. It is known that the aromatase enzyme (cytochrome p450arom) varies greatly. Bacterial aromatase has little similarity to mammalian aromatase. Among animals, there are distinct differences between pigs, horses and man that make translating results from one species to the others difficult.7,10,11,14 Further, it has been shown that even within a single species, there are different promoters (signals that “turn on” enzyme production) in different tissues.12 Conditions that may promote aromatization in the testes are different from those of fat cells.

In mammals, the aromatase reaction involves two separate enzymes that are jointly involved in converting androgens into estrogens.7,12 The first, the hemoprotein CYParom encoded by the CYP19 gene (for those of you who need that kind of information), is the catalyst. It attacks the 19-carbon in two steps and the nearby 1-carbon by oxidizing the androgen molecule at those points. The resulting response and actions of the second enzyme (NADPH-cytochrome P450 reductase) cause the loss of the 19-carbon and the simultaneous generation of a phenolic A-ring (a defining feature of an estrogen). In the absence of a 19-carbon, such as in nandrolone, the reaction would be much less efficient if it was even able to function.

Many medico-scientific journals have noted nandrolone to be a non-aromatizable AAS. Studies using brain cells have shown nandrolone to be more neurotoxic (damaging to nerve cells) because it is not aromatized. It is true that nandrolone is not a candidate for classic aromatization, as the 19-carbon that is missing from nandrolone is the starting point for the entire aromatase reaction. Interestingly, nandrolone stimulates aromatase in rat models, even though it does not participate in the reaction. This would accelerate the conversion of other androgens (testosterone, D-bol, etc).

Yet, the results of a recent study published in the Climacteric prove that nandrolone and other 19-nortestosterone-derived steroids can be converted into estrogenic steroids through a series of enzymatic reactions that take place in the human liver.15 The catalytic (accelerating) first enzyme, CYP 450arom, is not present in the adult human liver, though CYP 450arom is present in certain liver diseases and tumors. However, another enzyme called CYP 450 monooxygenase is able to attack the 2-carbon of the nandrolone and begin the generation of the phenolic A-ring…the definitive step in converting an androgen (or 19-norandrogen in this case) into an estrogen.

 

[nothuman]

Anyone use caber for trest?

 

[A50#]

Anyone use caber for trest?

Yes I'm using a tab split twice per week

 

[mexbeast]

really interesting article - interesting and the research showed that MENT aromatizes to a very small extent only in 0.03% - so I wonder what causes it to cause so much water retention - it's possible that it has some effect on estrogen receptors, which causes symptoms of aromatization

If I remember correctly stradiol is prescribed at a very low dose half a mg? Or 1mg? And since ment will aromatize into the 7alpha methyl stradiol it wouldn't take much to have a strong effect on the body, similar to checke drops

 

[specter]

The aromatase reaction is a complex, multi-step pathway involving a number of enzymatic reactions.7 It is present in many different tissue types (brain, ovary, adipose, placenta, etc.) and across many different species (human, horse, pig, etc.).10-13 In fact, even certain bacteria are capable of aromatizing androgens.7 In part, solving the hypothesis regarding any possible interaction of nandrolone with the aromatase reaction has been muddied by studying the enzyme system using vastly different sources. It is known that the aromatase enzyme (cytochrome p450arom) varies greatly. Bacterial aromatase has little similarity to mammalian aromatase. Among animals, there are distinct differences between pigs, horses and man that make translating results from one species to the others difficult.7,10,11,14 Further, it has been shown that even within a single species, there are different promoters (signals that “turn on” enzyme production) in different tissues.12 Conditions that may promote aromatization in the testes are different from those of fat cells.

In mammals, the aromatase reaction involves two separate enzymes that are jointly involved in converting androgens into estrogens.7,12 The first, the hemoprotein CYParom encoded by the CYP19 gene (for those of you who need that kind of information), is the catalyst. It attacks the 19-carbon in two steps and the nearby 1-carbon by oxidizing the androgen molecule at those points. The resulting response and actions of the second enzyme (NADPH-cytochrome P450 reductase) cause the loss of the 19-carbon and the simultaneous generation of a phenolic A-ring (a defining feature of an estrogen). In the absence of a 19-carbon, such as in nandrolone, the reaction would be much less efficient if it was even able to function.

Many medico-scientific journals have noted nandrolone to be a non-aromatizable AAS. Studies using brain cells have shown nandrolone to be more neurotoxic (damaging to nerve cells) because it is not aromatized. It is true that nandrolone is not a candidate for classic aromatization, as the 19-carbon that is missing from nandrolone is the starting point for the entire aromatase reaction. Interestingly, nandrolone stimulates aromatase in rat models, even though it does not participate in the reaction. This would accelerate the conversion of other androgens (testosterone, D-bol, etc).

Yet, the results of a recent study published in the Climacteric prove that nandrolone and other 19-nortestosterone-derived steroids can be converted into estrogenic steroids through a series of enzymatic reactions that take place in the human liver.15 The catalytic (accelerating) first enzyme, CYP 450arom, is not present in the adult human liver, though CYP 450arom is present in certain liver diseases and tumors. However, another enzyme called CYP 450 monooxygenase is able to attack the 2-carbon of the nandrolone and begin the generation of the phenolic A-ring…the definitive step in converting an androgen (or 19-norandrogen in this case) into an estrogen.

Ah now i get it, so you dont think the aromatase inhibitors we know does much here, but since the cyp450arom normally isnt present in a otherwise healthy liver, do we know how much conversion actually happens via the cyp450 monooxygenase ?

 

[gains4000]

Ah now i get it, so you dont think the aromatase inhibitors we know does much here, but since the cyp450arom normally isnt present in a otherwise healthy liver, do we know how much conversion actually happens via the cyp450 monooxygenase ?

Not exactly sure on that one, but the science is pretty convincing that aromatase inhibitors will not work on nandrolone drugs simply because they don't need the same enzyme like Testosterone and C19 Androgens to create estrogen.

"two aromatizing enzyme systems may exist: one which aromatizes both androgens and 19-norandrogens, and a minority system more specific for 19-norandrogens."
(https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2724957/)

"this complex key reaction is catalyzed by the cytochrome P450 aromatase, which is expressed in many tissues of the adult human (e.g. ovary, fat tissue), but not in the liver."
"19-nortestosterone derivatives can readily be aromatized in the adult human liver."

Can 19-nortestosterone derivatives be aromatized in the liver of adult humans? Are there clinical implications? - PubMed

19-nortestosterone derivatives (norethisterone, norethynodrel, tibolone) can readily be aromatized in the adult human liver. This leads to the formation of the potent estrogens ethinylestradiol from norethisterone or norethynodrel and 7 alpha-methyl-ethinylestradiol from tibolone. This may have...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[bellicose]

Smaller doses more frequently is the fool proof way to not have estrogen issues.
Been doing the trest enathate at 10-15mg daily for a few months.
Just for kicks I slipped 2 days and then did 80mg at once. Bloated up, sore nips, nosebleed on day 3, and my heart rate elevated 10BPM for a few days.

 

[nothuman]

Yes I'm using a tab split twice per week

To be clear, is the tab 0.5mg? So 0.25mg twice a week