Triptorelin GnRH log

[EMC]

ill be following this

 

[Mikee]

ill be following this

thanks

 

[bignripped]

i'm following this too, thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[Mikee]

No problem buddy.... I can already tell this stuff is gonna be huge. I finally have so much more energy and my balls are back!!!

 

[Mikee]

just an update- still feeling great. sex drive is up can definitely feel the effects of this stuff working ball size is still normal and I am finally not sleepin in until 10 anymore....

recovery is going great!

 

[10brandonr]

I understand this concern but every study for this drug and drugs like it is with dosages that are many many times the dosage one is using for PCT. I think the outcome is going to be hugely different for people taking this for prostate cancer at 3.75mg compared to people using this for PCT at 0.10mg(100mcg), 37.5 times lower dosage.

You're right... But where are the studies that say that a single administration of a low-dose of a GNRH agonist will reverse hypogonadism (essentially the goal of PCT)... there aren't any. Smaller dose just means smaller flare and less deregulation, but it won't cure anyones hypogonadism or be better than any other PCT protocol. There are plenty of studies that suggest that GNRH agonists are NOT good for reversing hypogonadism (this is essentially one of the basic reasons why it was synthesized in the first place) and that single injections just causes a return to baseline, and frequent and/or large injections cause dramatic deregulation. on the otherhand studies support that nolva, clomid, and even AIs are capable of driving FSH, LH, and testosterone levels well above baseline (so long as dosing is continuous).

I encourage experimentation but I guess all I'm wondering is what are people expecting from this more so than SERMs. Cuz no matter what once you stop the SERM or once the deregulation wears off from tripto, you always return to baseline, whether "your baseline" is low or high has nothing to do with what you use for PCT IMO...

 

[bostonpete]

Actually there is a study. It was posted on AO before he closed. Look in the description on extreme. Youll see it there too.

 

[reaper88]

are they even a sponsor here? It looks like a iron dragon . com copy

 

[bostonpete]

They are on like 15 boards. I heard through the grapevine that they will be here soon also.

 

[dece870717]

You're right... But where are the studies that say that a single administration of a low-dose of a GNRH agonist will reverse hypogonadism (essentially the goal of PCT)... there aren't any. Smaller dose just means smaller flare and less deregulation, but it won't cure anyones hypogonadism or be better than any other PCT protocol. There are plenty of studies that suggest that GNRH agonists are NOT good for reversing hypogonadism (this is essentially one of the basic reasons why it was synthesized in the first place) and that single injections just causes a return to baseline, and frequent and/or large injections cause dramatic deregulation. on the otherhand studies support that nolva, clomid, and even AIs are capable of driving FSH, LH, and testosterone levels well above baseline (so long as dosing is continuous).

I encourage experimentation but I guess all I'm wondering is what are people expecting from this more so than SERMs. Cuz no matter what once you stop the SERM or once the deregulation wears off from tripto, you always return to baseline, whether "your baseline" is low or high has nothing to do with what you use for PCT IMO...

There is one case of it being used to reverse steroid induced hypogonadism...

Anabolic steroids purchased on the Internet as a c... [Fertil Steril. 2010] - PubMed result

And this is more of detailed account of it Single dose of triptorelin gets bodybuilder’s hormones going again

What are people expecting from this? Are you serious? This could become the greatest PCT drug ever conceived! It can give almost immediate recovery/well being, not have to go through a depressive/low energy/low libido state for weeks like you would if using a normal PCT regime, or how about the fact that you can take just this and not subject your self to drugs like nolvadex and clomid for weeks at a time. Just take a single shot of triptorelin and you're done. This drug has so many advantages over the common PCT drugs if it ends up working as it should i.e. "no hard crash". From a homeostasis view of the body, the body crashes only as hard as the spike. Smaller spikes means smaller crashes, big spikes equal big crashes as seen from people using this for prostate cancer. If you could spike lower and closer to what your body wants your levels to be then recovery will be much easier and much quicker.

 

[10brandonr]

I wasn't aware that a study study so flawed it makes nazi propaganda look educational. It consisted of 1 single person on a cycle that sounds so poorly reported and off-the-wall it might just as well have included crack or something lol. Not to mention the guy used nandrolone.... you can probably assume he had built up a higher level of prolactin (around 15 ng/ml in the study, not out of range but pretty high) and it took a little time for for the HPTA inhibiting metabolites to "wash-out" and for prolactin levels to decrease back to baseline.

From the full study:
- Before treatment he suffered only from mild testicular atrophy and semen analysis showed he had a normal count and had no spermatogenesis dysfunction. (79 × x106 spermatozoa/mlmL). His only problem was a lack of energy and libido...
- The study made no effort to explain how long he had been off his cycle, only reporting "for a couple months"
- LH and FSH were within normal range (albeit lower range) in the last blood test done before treatment.
- Report fails to show blood test results after treatment, only reporting that the patient felt better and that serum testosterone was 7.0 ng/ml after 10 days... and that's as far as they tested.
- My favorite is in the discussion... where they discuss nothing about the case report and instead focus on performance doping in ancient civilizations, consumption by students, the trade of AAS online, and the science behind clomid.

But again... I'm just playing devil's advocate. I have no doubt in my mind that it will increase LH and FSH... but I'm also quite sure it won't bring it above baseline long after treatment and certainly won't be of any use to some suffering from true hypogonadism.

 

[Warbeard]

What would you guys say about running Triptorelin with a SERM PCT? I'm limited to just guesswork on this one.

 

[10brandonr]

What would you guys say about running Triptorelin with a SERM PCT? I'm limited to just guesswork on this one.

Absolutely useless. If tripto has one benefit, it's that you don't have to take SERMs which screw with estrogen levels, do weird things to your hormones, mildly carcinogenic, and SERMs like nolva destroy your IGF levels. etc... you add in SERMs and you bypass the only possible benefit to tripto in my mind. But again no PCT can bring your hormones back to life after they have truly (and I mean truly permanently, not 'I just got off deca last week and i can't get wood') rock bottomed. HRT is the only option after that point.

 

[10brandonr]

btw my problem with tripto is that I would guess that at these doses it fails to raise test, LH, or FSH even near as high as nolva and clomid. Also tripto stimulates the production of these gonadotrphins directly exogenously, its essentially the same concept of using HCG post cycle, only it DOES cause desensitization due to its long halflife. The same effect would be seem with HCG if used everyday at higher doses. SERMs produce a spike in a slightly more naturally manner by pituitary feedback that won't cause negative feedback overtime, as is the case with tripto.

 

[TwisT]

btw my problem with tripto is that I would guess that at these doses it fails to raise test, LH, or FSH even near as high as nolva and clomid.

Do you have citations or evidence to support this statement??

-T

 

[10brandonr]

Do you have citations or evidence to support this statement??

-T

No actually I can't. I appreciate your academic "thoroughness" tho! At least someone is actually reading things through. lol

Nevertheless SERMs work through a hypothalamus mechanism to spike gonadotropins and do not significantly alter the pulsatile nature of GNRH and do not cause any noticeable desensitization. This cannot be said with GNRH-a tho, which in my opinion cause a negative feedback not much different than a cycle itself. I don't see how a low-dose changes this. Its slightly analogous to AAS in that if you inject 100mgs of prop 1 time it will spike testosterone levels and will not shut you down, but nevertheless an insignificant negative feedback will downregulate natural production to a tiny extent. But after all is said and done the body will just return back to base. You didn't do much harm with the single prop injection, but you didn't do any good either.

 

[TwisT]

Nevertheless SERMs work through a hypothalamus mechanism to spike gonadotropins and do not significantly alter the pulsatile nature of GNRH and do not cause any noticeable desensitization. This cannot be said with GNRH-a tho, which in my opinion cause a negative feedback not much different than a cycle itself. I don't see how a low-dose changes this. Its slightly analogous to AAS in that if you inject 100mgs of prop 1 time it will spike testosterone levels and will not shut you down, but nevertheless an insignificant negative feedback will downregulate natural production to a tiny extent. But after all is said and done the body will just return back to base. You didn't do much harm with the single prop injection, but you didn't do any good either.

I would be happy to continue this conversation over PM in the time coming... I love a good educated debate Your theory sounds great and would make sense, but there are a few flaws. Lets chat! As it is 4am now, hit me up tomorrow.

-T

 

[beggar]

Why not keep it public Twist? This is truly educational and can possible change the way we do PCT. Right now everything 10brandonr is writing is educational and speculative. We would love to hear your opinion as well. Wouldn't before and after bloodwork by some users give us a good idea on how this stuff is working at such a low amount? It would also show us if it works great by itself or if it may require the use of some other compounds as well.

I am on HRT and I am still reading on what others are feeling while using the product. I wanna have some kids later this year and I am going to have to decide if I am going to add some hmg to the hcg that i am currently using or go with the Trip



The Beggar

 

[TwisT]

Gladly! What we need to think about is this: why have doctors used HCG for years to restart patients who have a shot HPTA? With your theory, after the HCG use the HPTA would return to its shut-down state, which is wrong and HcG is still used today worldwide by doctors to restart patients. GnRH is pretty much the same type of signal, not actually produced by the hypothalmus, but the point of it is more of a "jumpstart" because the signals have pretty much seised the normal "surge" (I am currently researching the effect of our E2 levels on this surge, as there seems to be a relation that is still unclear). We need to kick our pituitary into gear, need to kick it in the ass, rather, to begin producing. Then, once regulation beings, we include products such as nolvadex and/or clomid to induce those real signals and begin to raise our FSH/LH and begin to restore the function of our HPTA.

Of course, the studying of GnRH is pretty new to the male BB field so we do need to see more bloodwork and male studies done, very good point brother.

Hope that is understandable
-T

Why not keep it public Twist? This is truly educational and can possible change the way we do PCT. Right now everything 10brandonr is writing is educational and speculative. We would love to hear your opinion as well. Wouldn't before and after bloodwork by some users give us a good idea on how this stuff is working at such a low amount? It would also show us if it works great by itself or if it may require the use of some other compounds as well.

I am on HRT and I am still reading on what others are feeling while using the product. I wanna have some kids later this year and I am going to have to decide if I am going to add some hmg to the hcg that i am currently using or go with the Trip



The Beggar

 

[bignripped]

i deleted my post, mixed up who was i referring to.:banghead: