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Trouble Transitioning from Bodybuilding to Physique

AVelasques911

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For the record, I've never competed. I just lived a bodybuilding lifestyle in my early twenties. My cycles were very basic, test, dbol, nandrolone.... wet compounds. I always hovered around 15% body fat. I looked big, which was what I wanted at the time.

Fast forward I've never stopped but just cut down to TRT dose which has been the last few years.

Now at mid 30's I want to get back in again but this time I'm really intrigued by the more fitness model physique, mainly because I have a naturally small structure and it suits me better. Rob Riches being a huge inspiration as to the size and condition I'd like to maintain, plus he is my height and about my size when I've met him.

Like I said, I've met him a few times and size-wise we are about the same. On just TRT I have a 46 inch chest, 17.5 arms, 18.5 neck and 32 waist (with not even a hint of abs, I have to get to 30 inches or below to have abs, I have tiny wrists, tiny waist, tiny knees etc.)

The problem is even size being equal, I can't maintain that fullness and especially that year round dry look that he and similar guys seem to keep. My diet is way more adjusted and I now do cardio year round but AAS wise...... I just really don't see a guy like Rob Riches being on tren most of the year.

If anyone maintains this type of physique Id love to hear what your AAS runs look like. Ideally I'd like to be on TRT year round and then do two blasts, one in the summer and one in the winter with maybe just higher test, or masteron, and anavar or T-Bol. I would hope that would be enough to maintain fullness most of the year on a pretty low calorie diet. I'd rather not have to jump on tren and anadrol and even winny etc., for a 175-180 physique, if it's not absolutely necessary.
 

danieltx

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It sounds like your issue is more diet-related than anything else. Having a dry look year-round is first a function of having low body fat, and you said you don't even have a hint of abs.

The look you're wanting is more dependent on a strict diet year-round with none or very conservative bulking phases than anything you can take.
 

maldorf

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I think it is a smart decision for you to aim for a smaller physique, it will be much more healthy for you. I do think that if you post up pictures the guys on here would be better able to advise you. Another thing that would help would be what kind of lifting program you follow as well as doses you used in the past. Diet you follow etc.

If you are really serious about doing this you would be best off finding a good coach. I think we have some great ones on here.
 

little slice

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sounds like your goals are reasonably modest for someone who has been enhanced for as long as you have been



as others have mentioned, your diet will be the key to your success.



just looked up this Rob Riches guy, and he looks great. but i highly doubt he's running anything outrageous to achieve or maintain that physique.



post up a pic, and we can guide you from there.
 

Elvia1023

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sounds like your goals are reasonably modest for someone who has been enhanced for as long as you have been



as others have mentioned, your diet will be the key to your success.



just looked up this Rob Riches guy, and he looks great. but i highly doubt he's running anything outrageous to achieve or maintain that physique.



post up a pic, and we can guide you from there.

x2

To the OP can you post a pic. This is all about diet. No one needs to be on harsh drugs all year to have a lean physique. You could use sensible doses and follow a great diet and get there fairly quickly (well depending upon how you look now). Sure 50mg tren a per day in a main cycle is gonna help as well but nothing crazy needs to be done. Basic aas, good/restricted diet and consistent training.
 
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brutus69

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he got tagged for using anavar a few years ago, and of course denied it.
lots of guys, lots use anavar, a cop i know and his buddies in vegas who're dancers/strippers are on that for months and months at a time
but yeah, without good calorie monitoring, u aint gonna get that look unless yr lean first and no abs? that aint lean.
good measurements tho and u can easily keep that muscle and shrink that waist to 30 or less even
 

AVelasques911

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Thanks for the input, unfortunately due to my job and some very giveaway tattoos I can't really post pics or do social media at the moment, I'm hoping to transition out of this because doing a pro photoshoot has always been a goal, even it's for some no-name ad.

I'm not a big guy though. I've actually really taken to Rob as a role model since height, frame and overall size-wise we seem to be very similar. I'm 5'10, neck is 18.5, arms 17.5, chest 46, waist 32 flabby (razor sharp at 29, pretty lean at 30) and quads 24 at the upper teardrop.

I've met him a few times when I was very lean myself and the funny thing is, I'm actually slightly larger overall BUT I look very flat and he has a level of fullness that I don't usually see with someone who stays that lean all year (and as mentioned, he's not big, not big enough to be on anything too harsh IMO)

My diet is very unorthodox, my body doesn't handle much food well at all. At my biggest I was on about 300mg test and 200mg NPP in college (I never liked big cycles), I was about 215, front squatting 335 for reps, doing 600 rack pulls for reps and still only eating around 2500 calories to maintain that. I eat a lot more intuitively now but I maintain my current size on about 100 grams of protein and the few times I've weighted things out of curiosity (when I was at a 29inch waist), I was at about 1200-1400 calories daily, tops. This is always a contreversial topic but I've never lost strength and my arms actually grew from 17 to 17.5 on around 65-75g of protein a day on just TRT (200mg) and a bit of added volume. I always hear "it's not enough food" but if I eat more the only thing that grows is my waist, I'm blowing ass all day and just look and feel like shit.

Needless to say my diet is always tricky because I seem to require far fewer calories than most people, I put a lot of focus on micronutrients and antioxidants as well as adequate mineral intake. When I started 20 years ago I ate a TON more but the results were just never good.
 

Elvia1023

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Thanks for the input, unfortunately due to my job and some very giveaway tattoos I can't really post pics or do social media at the moment, I'm hoping to transition out of this because doing a pro photoshoot has always been a goal, even it's for some no-name ad.

I'm not a big guy though. I've actually really taken to Rob as a role model since height, frame and overall size-wise we seem to be very similar. I'm 5'10, neck is 18.5, arms 17.5, chest 46, waist 32 flabby (razor sharp at 29, pretty lean at 30) and quads 24 at the upper teardrop.

I've met him a few times when I was very lean myself and the funny thing is, I'm actually slightly larger overall BUT I look very flat and he has a level of fullness that I don't usually see with someone who stays that lean all year (and as mentioned, he's not big, not big enough to be on anything too harsh IMO)

My diet is very unorthodox, my body doesn't handle much food well at all. At my biggest I was on about 300mg test and 200mg NPP in college (I never liked big cycles), I was about 215, front squatting 335 for reps, doing 600 rack pulls for reps and still only eating around 2500 calories to maintain that. I eat a lot more intuitively now but I maintain my current size on about 100 grams of protein and the few times I've weighted things out of curiosity (when I was at a 29inch waist), I was at about 1200-1400 calories daily, tops. This is always a contreversial topic but I've never lost strength and my arms actually grew from 17 to 17.5 on around 65-75g of protein a day on just TRT (200mg) and a bit of added volume. I always hear "it's not enough food" but if I eat more the only thing that grows is my waist, I'm blowing ass all day and just look and feel like shit.

Needless to say my diet is always tricky because I seem to require far fewer calories than most people, I put a lot of focus on micronutrients and antioxidants as well as adequate mineral intake. When I started 20 years ago I ate a TON more but the results were just never good.

I don't usually care what people think but I edited my 1st post as I thought there was no point in writing what I did. All I wrote was I was really surprised when I met Rob Riches in real life. Obviously he looks fantastic in pics (plus he is very lean) but I was really surprised how small he was. It was honestly like standing next to a boy. He couldn't have been more that 160 pounds and he wasn't short. I see he is listed as 180 pounds now. His line was also bigger than most big name bodybuilders as well. Again I deleted this earlier as I didn't want to sound a tit but I was really surprised seeing him in person.

Ps- it sounds like your metabolism is fucked due to chronic under eating. It's hard to know without seeing you and finding out more details. But I bet you could add some calories (probably carbs), change your training and you will get tighten up as a result. No male training hard regardless of genetics should be on 1200-1400 calories for long periods. It's very common to see guys after the cover model look who undereat thinking it's the optimal way to get shredded and it's usually not unless it's for a very short period to finish off a diet.
 
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AVelasques911

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I don't usually care what people think but I edited my 1st post as I thought there was no point in writing what I did. All I wrote was I was really surprised when I met Rob Riches in real life. Obviously he looks fantastic in pics (plus he is very lean) but I was really surprised how small he was. It was honestly like standing next to a boy. He couldn't have been more that 160 pounds and he wasn't short. I see he is listed as 180 pounds now. His line was also bigger than most big name bodybuilders as well. Again I deleted this earlier as I didn't want to sound a tit but I was really surprised seeing him in person.

Ps- it sounds like your metabolism is fucked due to chronic under eating. It's hard to know without seeing you and finding out more details. But I bet you could add some calories (probably carbs), change your training and you will get tighten up as a result. No male training hard regardless of genetics should be on 1200-1400 calories for long periods. It's very common to see guys after the cover model look who undereat thinking it's the optimal way to get shredded and it's usually not unless it's for a very short period to finish off a diet.


I've been told my metabolism is damaged so many times, but keep in mind, at around 75g of protein per day, for a period of 6-8 months, I GAINED 1/2 inch on my arms, after more than 15 years of training and on nothing but TRT. At 75g of protein, I was repping out 275 on the flat bench (not amazing, but for a 180lb guy, not too bad). I also CAN get ripped and bulk, I just do it on less calories than most.

I say this respectfully and not to start a war. I'm just not a big believer in metabolic damage, ever since around 2002 I've always gotten to what would be considered contest-shape at 1200 calories, I start to look a bit soft around 2000 and just plain bulked up at 2400. If this was metabolic damage I feel those numbers would have dropped over the years, not stayed the same. I feel I would have decreased measurements over the years, not increased.
 

AVelasques911

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Funny thing about Riches is that he looked small to me as well but it's all perspective. When you are constantly seeing 240lb bodybuilders, he will look small. When you are walking around town seeing average people all day, he will look huge. Case in point I met him at an expo with three girls who were just with us and two guys that were heavily into bodybuilding. The two guys thought he was tiny and kept going on and on about how they'd like to look like him but would feel weird not looking big in a long-sleeve shirt etc., the girls thought he looked huge and couldn't stop talking about how big his arms and chest were...... it's all perspective.
 

Elvia1023

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I've been told my metabolism is damaged so many times, but keep in mind, at around 75g of protein per day, for a period of 6-8 months, I GAINED 1/2 inch on my arms, after more than 15 years of training and on nothing but TRT. At 75g of protein, I was repping out 275 on the flat bench (not amazing, but for a 180lb guy, not too bad). I also CAN get ripped and bulk, I just do it on less calories than most.

I say this respectfully and not to start a war. I'm just not a big believer in metabolic damage, ever since around 2002 I've always gotten to what would be considered contest-shape at 1200 calories, I start to look a bit soft around 2000 and just plain bulked up at 2400. If this was metabolic damage I feel those numbers would have dropped over the years, not stayed the same. I feel I would have decreased measurements over the years, not increased.

Everyone has different nutritional needs. Gaining 1/2 inch on your arms doesn't really mean anything. Obviously it's good but I don't know what they looked like before you gained it. Or how good your training was. Or if you site injected. Or perhaps even measured them at different times or after using nitric oxide expanders or 101 other variables.

Well metabolic damage is very real imo. As is the ability to speed up your metabolism through feeding. Just because you may not have noticed it I think it's well documented. Some people go very low calorie and high expenditure and hold onto weight as their bodies go into starvation mode. Whilst it can be relatively easy to get back from that there can be long term damage for some people.

I obviously don't know anything about you but that's why I asked for pics as they tell 1000 words. What you write could be 100% truth but I am curious what your diet consisted of at these low calories. Did you track everything you ate at 2000 calories when you starting going a bit soft? Did you have full blood work done so you know there were no hormonal issues at that time? What about thyroid, estrogen, prolactin... even liver and kidney markers could effect water retention. Moreover some peoples going a bit soft could mean anything.

There are some big guys who diet on very low calories at the end but I do wonder what is going on if a hard training male starts going soft at 2000 cals daily when gaining size. I would think something is off in some way.

I am just trying to help and commenting on what you give me. If you need tiny calories to grow good muscle then great. But you sound like you started this thread for advice on what to do. Maybe you didn't. Even with the aas question it's hard to say. That's why I asked for a pic. If you had a great base and needed to just lose some fat you could look cover model type on 300mg test and a great diet and time. Now if you had no base you could do the same but you may need a bit more to get the muscle you need first. As LS posted your goal is not out of reach and can be attained with low doses and diet. What are you eating on a typical day?

To look like Rob Riches it's all about diet. Obviously 40mg test p, 30mg mast p and 40mg avar (or tbol) daily would also help attain that look as well. There is no wrong answer but that sort of cycle is enough to feel good and get that look.
 

AVelasques911

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Everyone has different nutritional needs. Gaining 1/2 inch on your arms doesn't really mean anything. Obviously it's good but I don't know what they looked like before you gained it. Or how good your training was. Or if you site injected. Or perhaps even measured them at different times or after using nitric oxide expanders or 101 other variables.

Well metabolic damage is very real imo. As is the ability to speed up your metabolism through feeding. Just because you may not have noticed it I think it's well documented. Some people go very low calorie and high expenditure and hold onto weight as their bodies go into starvation mode. Whilst it can be relatively easy to get back from that there can be long term damage for some people.

I obviously don't know anything about you but that's why I asked for pics as they tell 1000 words. What you write could be 100% truth but I am curious what your diet consisted of at these low calories. Did you track everything you ate at 2000 calories when you starting going a bit soft? Did you have full blood work done so you know there were no hormonal issues at that time? What about thyroid, estrogen, prolactin... even liver and kidney markers could effect water retention. Moreover some peoples going a bit soft could mean anything.

There are some big guys who diet on very low calories at the end but I do wonder what is going on if a hard training male starts going soft at 2000 cals daily when gaining size. I would think something is off in some way.

I am just trying to help and commenting on what you give me. If you need tiny calories to grow good muscle then great. But you sound like you started this thread for advice on what to do. Maybe you didn't. Even with the aas question it's hard to say. That's why I asked for a pic. If you had a great base and needed to just lose some fat you could look cover model type on 300mg test and a great diet and time. Now if you had no base you could do the same but you may need a bit more to get the muscle you need first. As LS posted your goal is not out of reach and can be attained with low doses and diet. What are you eating on a typical day?

To look like Rob Riches it's all about diet. Obviously 40mg test p, 30mg mast p and 40mg avar (or tbol) daily would also help attain that look as well. There is no wrong answer but that sort of cycle is enough to feel good and get that look.

I really do appreciate your input, I know you can only work so much with me without pictures.

Yeah it's always been a bit weird to me how little food I need. Back in college I did eat much more bodybuilder-like, around 4,000 calories, 1.5g/lb of protein, lots of quality starchy carbs. I was "bigger", though ironically my measurements are the same now 15 years later, and some (arms, neck, chest) are even larger. My reasoning is just that at these lower caloric levels I look more depleted and it's tougher to maintain a fuller look.

This is what I've eaten today, keep in mind, at this point I do purely intuitive eating and might have anywhere from 3-8 meals a day. My barometer is that when I'm looking to stay very lean, I always just eat enough to keep huger at bay, when I'm looking to maintain a bit more size, I make sure I'm always full but not stuffed. Every week or two I do a full day of weighing things out to have an average idea of where my numbers are at.


1. Scoop of whey, 2 spoons of Chia seeds, one big spoon of almond butter, cacao powder
2. One Greek Yogurt
3. One chicken breast, spinach, half a large avocado
4. One salmon filet cooked in coconut oil, asparagus and half a large avocado

It's a rest day and I'm only slightly hungry so I'll likely have two more small meals, probably another greek yogurt and maybe a quest bar, nothing too big. I've also had 1.5 gallons of water with minerals mixed in, 1 scoop of Vibrant Greens powder, 100mg of chlorophyll, 10iu Vitamin D, and 10g of fish oil.

This is not optimal for someone competing, but at the moment I am not, nor have I been and I kind of know when I'm hungry vs when I'm craving enough to nail things close enough for my current purposes. I don't like the idea of eating a meal just because it's time to eat a meal if my body isn't hungry, or vice-versa, sticking to 6 meals if I'm shaky and my stomach is growling. Today is a pretty typical day, carbs cause me a lot of stomach discomfort so I mostly rely on fat sources as fuel but I'll often throw in berries, a banana or some sweet potato.
 

little slice

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that's really cool man




but we can't help you unless you post up pics..





I'm in a professional field as well, all it takes is 15 seconds in Dpaint and you're good to go
 
D

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your metabolism can be changed up relatively quickly from under or over eating. You mention this guy rob riches, maybe you don`t have his genetics, maybe hes younger, maybe all the pics posted online he was ready for and getting primed. Diet, don`t worry about the scale, check measurement, more cardio, and remember 2 refeed days should add at least 6-10lbs and fill you out.
 

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That's when you truly realize times have changed... back when I started lifting, NO ONE would have thought or at least dared to say you needed gear to look like this guy (had to google his name, never heard of him)... dude is SMALL af!!! :banghead: Some ok abs but not even ripped, quite soft upper body in fact... no, frankly, aside from a marketable face mainly due to good hair, this boy Rob Riches is as common as it gets... many soccer player actually look much better than him without even lifting weights... :eek:

All it takes to look like that is a bit of suffering, ie a good diet. No need for TRT, even though I read dude got popped after testing positive in a UK natural show (how pathetic btw... :rolleyes:), blaming a preworkout for his failed test.

OP, only thing you should do is reset your metabolism by first starting to eat way more quality food, then once it's done hit a good diet.
 

Elvia1023

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That's when you truly realize times have changed... back when I started lifting, NO ONE would have thought or at least dared to say you needed gear to look like this guy (had to google his name, never heard of him)... dude is SMALL af!!! :banghead: Some ok abs but not even ripped, quite soft upper body in fact... no, frankly, aside from a marketable face mainly due to good hair, this boy Rob Riches is as common as it gets... many soccer player actually look much better than him without even lifting weights... :eek:

All it takes to look like that is a bit of suffering, ie a good diet. No need for TRT, even though I read dude got popped after testing positive in a UK natural show (how pathetic btw... :rolleyes:), blaming a preworkout for his failed test.

OP, only thing you should do is reset your metabolism by first starting to eat way more quality food, then once it's done hit a good diet.

I was going to write this but I didn't want to overcomplicate things. When you have a guy who has used aas for many years and his goal is to be small and ripped obviously something is not entirely right or perhaps he hasn't tried or come off for the last few years. This is another reason I was going to ask for pics from the past when he says he was in contest condition but didn't bother doing that either. As I stated when I met Rob he couldn't be more than 160 pounds and he wasn't short. Whilst he looks good all it takes for that is diet. Now if someone has messed up hormones from years of usage 200mg test per week would be more than enough. Obviously adding stuff like avar in will only help the way you look though.

OP reading your diet there is no wonder you struggle to stay full. I don't really know where to take this. You won't post pics and your diet is well look at it. That's enough food to merely maintain a low bodyweight but as far as performance/physique enhancing it is lacking. Another thought is if you don't track anything and go on feel how do you truly know your exact macros/calories?

LS I have never got the pic thing either. I work for one of the biggest aas sellers on here and my pic is all over the place. Sometimes guys act like they are doing undercover work for the government and their cover could be blown when you ask them to post a pic of their body.
 

cm

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That's when you truly realize times have changed... back when I started lifting, NO ONE would have thought or at least dared to say you needed gear to look like this guy (had to google his name, never heard of him) many soccer player actually look much better than him without even lifting weights... :eek:

All it takes to look like that is a bit of suffering, ie a good diet. No need for TRT, even though I read dude got popped after testing positive in a UK natural show (how pathetic btw... :rolleyes:), blaming a preworkout for his failed test.

OP, only thing you should do is reset your metabolism by first starting to eat way more quality food, then once it's done hit a good diet.

2x

congrats to him for making something out of his physique in the industry. IG and other socials have changed the way people look at this sport, but I agree with you, as I didnt see high caliber physique when I looked up who he was
 

11111

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I've been told my metabolism is damaged so many times, but keep in mind, at around 75g of protein per day, for a period of 6-8 months, I GAINED 1/2 inch on my arms, after more than 15 years of training and on nothing but TRT. At 75g of protein, I was repping out 275 on the flat bench (not amazing, but for a 180lb guy, not too bad). I also CAN get ripped and bulk, I just do it on less calories than most.

I say this respectfully and not to start a war. I'm just not a big believer in metabolic damage, ever since around 2002 I've always gotten to what would be considered contest-shape at 1200 calories, I start to look a bit soft around 2000 and just plain bulked up at 2400. If this was metabolic damage I feel those numbers would have dropped over the years, not stayed the same. I feel I would have decreased measurements over the years, not increased.

I hear you on that, man... I'm very similar in that I can grow on very low calories (and low carbs) as well..

I too feel like unless someone is consuming insanely low calories for years on end, doing a ton of training (and cardio) each day, and is super wicked lean, then "metabolic damage" is not very likely to happen..
 

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