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Trouble Transitioning from Bodybuilding to Physique

Well metabolic damage is very real imo. As is the ability to speed up your metabolism through feeding. Just because you may not have noticed it I think it's well documented. Some people go very low calorie and high expenditure and hold onto weight as their bodies go into starvation mode. Whilst it can be relatively easy to get back from that there can be long term damage for some people.

elvia, can you expand on this (metabolic damage) in your experience? for the longest time i was so scared of "damaging my metabolism" by hard dieting on very low calories, but over the years I've done crazy diet/training regimens, (such as psmf diets while training (hard) 7 days a week along with working an extremely physical job for 8-10 weeks at a time and I've just never seen the "metabolic damage" that some people speak of. I've observed the same thing with a number of guys who I train with.

I know I'm just one guy, an everybody is different, but I just don't think it's that easy for someone who isn't super lean to really damage their metabolism, as they still have plenty of bodyfat to feed off of.

Yes, if someone is extremely lean and is doing a huge workload of training/cardio, and on extremely low calories for extended periods of time throughout the year, year after year, yes, I can see some possible metabolic damage happening, but outside of that, I'm skeptical..

Curious as to your thoughts and experiences on why you think metabolic damage is a very real thing?
 
but to the OP, yes, like these guys are saying, just dial in your diet, get very lean, hold it there for a while while you figure out how to stay pretty damn lean year (diet-wise) round while still being able to live the kind of lifestyle you want to live...

honestly, unless you have very shitty genetics, it really shouldn't be that difficult for you to have a look similar to rob riches within the next year or so if you really dial things in, get lean, and figure out which type of eating you respond best to..
 
elvia, can you expand on this (metabolic damage) in your experience? for the longest time i was so scared of "damaging my metabolism" by hard dieting on very low calories, but over the years I've done crazy diet/training regimens, (such as psmf diets while training (hard) 7 days a week along with working an extremely physical job for 8-10 weeks at a time and I've just never seen the "metabolic damage" that some people speak of. I've observed the same thing with a number of guys who I train with.

I know I'm just one guy, an everybody is different, but I just don't think it's that easy for someone who isn't super lean to really damage their metabolism, as they still have plenty of bodyfat to feed off of.

Yes, if someone is extremely lean and is doing a huge workload of training/cardio, and on extremely low calories for extended periods of time throughout the year, year after year, yes, I can see some possible metabolic damage happening, but outside of that, I'm skeptical..

Curious as to your thoughts and experiences on why you think metabolic damage is a very real thing?

When I wrote metabolic damage was real I think like you for the most part. However I do believe many can slow down a.k.a damage their metabolism especially after combining extremely low calories and high volume training/cardio for long periods. It's very common for prep coaches to get clients that have been on extreme routines with high t3, clen etc and they actually started losing more fat when more calories were introduced. Layne Norton has written some good stuff on the subject.

For the most part I think it can easily be reversed. Then comes the fact I strongly believe you can speed up your metabolism through feeding and obviously drugs and training as well. There has to be a fine balance between each element though. Me personally I haven't come across it because at my leanest I doubt I ever went under 2500 calories per day.
 
Does Mark Dugdale have a damaged metabolism since he comes into shows at 1,800 calories a day?

Does Akim Williams have a damaged metabolism since he has to starve on green beans and minimal protein to get in shape?

Do guys like myself or mytreefiddy have damaged metabolisms since we hit the low 1,000s on daily calories to get in shape?

The idea that every bodybuilder needs thousands and thousands of calories to maintain or grow has been perpetuated by 1) high level bodybuilders who lie about their caloric intake (dieting into a show on 6,000 calories a day, yeah right) and 2) extreme ectomorphs who actually do need thousands of calories to maintain / grow, and they're naturally lean to start, so people see the finished product and think that's how many calories they need as well.

I followed traditional bodybuilding diets for years and yeah I gained muscle, but I gained tons of fat too - all that stuff based on assumed BMR, multiply weight by 15 for your calories, etc., set me back huge, and I bet that's true for most guys with average genetics who pursue this.

Now at 223lbs. I eat ~2,200 calories a day, and last time I hit 6% it was 1,100 calories a day. And I physically look the best I ever have and am the strongest I've ever been.

These blanket statements of people needing more calories are wrong. Metabolism is much more individual than people realize.
 
Does Mark Dugdale have a damaged metabolism since he comes into shows at 1,800 calories a day?

Does Akim Williams have a damaged metabolism since he has to starve on green beans and minimal protein to get in shape?

Do guys like myself or mytreefiddy have damaged metabolisms since we hit the low 1,000s on daily calories to get in shape?

The idea that every bodybuilder needs thousands and thousands of calories to maintain or grow has been perpetuated by 1) high level bodybuilders who lie about their caloric intake (dieting into a show on 6,000 calories a day, yeah right) and 2) extreme ectomorphs who actually do need thousands of calories to maintain / grow, and they're naturally lean to start, so people see the finished product and think that's how many calories they need as well.

I followed traditional bodybuilding diets for years and yeah I gained muscle, but I gained tons of fat too - all that stuff based on assumed BMR, multiply weight by 15 for your calories, etc., set me back huge, and I bet that's true for most guys with average genetics who pursue this.

Now at 223lbs. I eat ~2,200 calories a day, and last time I hit 6% it was 1,100 calories a day. And I physically look the best I ever have and am the strongest I've ever been.

These blanket statements of people needing more calories are wrong. Metabolism is much more individual than people realize.

Obviously everyone is different and some people need much more/less calories to grow/diet. Some top pro's who carry a lot of mass diet on very little calories at the end of preps. So there are no blanket statements. But when someone is getting soft at 2000 calories and they are training frequently I bet there is something off. Perhaps bloodwork is off, calories may be off, training is off etc.

I know of guys who diet on next to no calories but because aas is in the mix they hold onto muscle and look great so I am not disgreeing with anything you state I just have a feeling the OP could be off somewhere and that's why I asked for pics and what he eats in a typical day.

I want to repeat the importance of aas in this. Guys could diet on 1000 calories per day and if they have a little bit of test and tren in the mix for many they would probably never look better. So there are definitely no blanket statements and many ways people go about getting in shape. Our own dear Little Slice :p diets on dnp, aas and pretty much protein only and I doubt he loses next to no muscle. It may not be the healthiest and smartest approach but it can definitely be extremely effective.
 
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I may be way off base....but I think when pushing the body to one extreme or the other....you will use more or less calories than normal to get there.

But I've noticed that once I have been at a certain weight or condition for awhile and basically created a new"setpoint".........I can maintain that look on trivial doses and amounts of food with much lower protein.

But if I want to make a change....I have to step outside those boundaries for awhile at least.

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I may be way off base....but I think when pushing the body to one extreme or the other....you will use more or less calories than normal to get there.

But I've noticed that once I have been at a certain weight or condition for awhile and basically created a new"setpoint".........I can maintain that look on trivial doses and amounts of food with much lower protein.

But if I want to make a change....I have to step outside those boundaries for awhile at least.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk

I agree, also wanted to second whoever mentioned bodybuilders lying about calories...it's almost as prevalent as lying about doses, except the other side of the spectrum (over vs under-reporting)

Lastly...I'm sure there are some, but not many people can get their glutes in for a show on 2500+ calories/d without hours of cardio in the mix
 
I agree, also wanted to second whoever mentioned bodybuilders lying about calories...it's almost as prevalent as lying about doses, except the other side of the spectrum (over vs under-reporting)

Lastly...I'm sure there are some, but not many people can get their glutes in for a show on 2500+ calories/d without hours of cardio in the mix

I have a guy who is eating 3500 calories and close to contest weight at 231. I told him to eat another 100 carbs today on top of that. :)
 
Op post a pic. 2 pics will do your scenario more justice than 20,000 word essays.

This thread is a cluster of issues from metabolic damage to generalizations made on caloric requirements (most of which are correct, you aren't GETTING big on low calories unless you're an anomaly, and getting leaner has about 60 different individual factors when it comes to deciding calories).


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Da fuk? People aspire to look like this Rob Riches guy??
I'd rather be the fat cunt I am right now, but still look like a man rather than look like I am still going through puberty!
Abs don't count on a skinny guy.
 
I have a guy who is eating 3500 calories and close to contest weight at 231. I told him to eat another 100 carbs today on top of that. :)

I spend 8-10 out of 12 weeks prepping around 3,000 - 3.2k cal, similar stage weight...notice I said there were exceptions, and I do drop into the 2000s for the last month - but if I was wearing classic trunks or board shorts I wouldn't need to :)
 
Physique shouldn’t be a thing. I find physique so god damn stupid. They made classic for guys that don’t want to get massive. Physique is absolutely retarded. Have you seen how these guys “pose”? If you can even call it that. I know they work hard but covering up your legs and moving around on stage not even posing is dumb. It also makes the shows much longer. My friends have to watch 2 hours of physique guys on stage before real bodybuilding can happen.....


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Da fuk? People aspire to look like this Rob Riches guy??
I'd rather be the fat cunt I am right now, but still look like a man rather than look like I am still going through puberty!
Abs don't count on a skinny guy.



damn
 
I agree, also wanted to second whoever mentioned bodybuilders lying about calories...it's almost as prevalent as lying about doses, except the other side of the spectrum (over vs under-reporting)

Lastly...I'm sure there are some, but not many people can get their glutes in for a show on 2500+ calories/d without hours of cardio in the mix
Another thing in regards to what Elvia said. When I'm trying to gain weight....I do it very slowly over a long period of time. Gain a few lbs.....go into maintenance to let my body adjust and regain insulin sensitivity...then start again.

I still have a pretty fast metabolism...so by the end when it's time to start cutting....I'm eating a pretty good amount of food.

Enough that I can go on a slow cut , get decently lean without having to do cardio, and at the end I'm still above 2K for the day so I'm not starving.

But if I can get my body working optimally at those higher calories, I have more room to work with later.

Now I'm not a competitor....so I'm never getting that lean...but I'm lean enough to look better than 98% of people my age and can hold my own at the beach with anyone.

And all of this at the expense of not having to starve myself.

Sent from my LG-H871 using Tapatalk
 
I spend 8-10 out of 12 weeks prepping around 3,000 - 3.2k cal, similar stage weight...notice I said there were exceptions, and I do drop into the 2000s for the last month - but if I was wearing classic trunks or board shorts I wouldn't need to :)

I always say if you eat good in off season, you don't need to starve yourself for shows.
 
Physique shouldn’t be a thing. I find physique so god damn stupid. They made classic for guys that don’t want to get massive. Physique is absolutely retarded. Have you seen how these guys “pose”? If you can even call it that. I know they work hard but covering up your legs and moving around on stage not even posing is dumb. It also makes the shows much longer. My friends have to watch 2 hours of physique guys on stage before real bodybuilding can happen.....


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wow
pretty opinionated and judgmental here
disagree with all written, with exception of shows being longer,
it of course does that, but so does the 5 hour break between rounds at NPC shows as well
"Real" bodybuilding. geeesh
 
Da fuk? People aspire to look like this Rob Riches guy??
I'd rather be the fat cunt I am right now, but still look like a man rather than look like I am still going through puberty!
Abs don't count on a skinny guy.

Time to move on and adapt PM to this new era by changing its name to something fitting more its renewed 2018 customer base's aspirations and role models:

professional_modeling.com

or

professional_anorexia.com

:eek::(
 

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