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TRT AND HCG

DM2000

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Mar 27, 2017
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Is it necessary?
I've been on TRT for 2+ years.
100mg per week upped to 200mg about a year ago. My PCP has been a life saver (prescribing test). When I asked about hcg she said to check with an endo... who said its only needed around the time I'm looking to have kids.... and he wanted to cut my trt dosage.... fk that...

Do I have to use hcg??

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buck

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It can give you a boost in testosterone, libido, mood , nut size, activate other pathways like p450 etc. You have to decide if it is worth it to you.
 

j4ever

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What's the average dose for a trt regimen?

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like anything else bro, everyone can be different, personally I take 250iu twice a week, many take 500 twice a week, some less some more, it does cause estro problems for some, I would start at 250iu twice a week and evaluate from there.
 

buck

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1 of the more cutting edge TRT Dr.'s recommends 100i.u.'s a day. Most go with 250-500 i.u.'s 2x a week. I have done all that and find 250 2x a week works a well as any.
 

j4ever

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1 of the more cutting edge TRT Dr.'s recommends 100i.u.'s a day. Most go with 250-500 i.u.'s 2x a week. I have done all that and find 250 2x a week works a well as any.

that's right, hell i think that micro dosing all around for trt is very possibly the best approach, BUT doing everyday is just not for me.
 

hemipower

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I'd agree there is a lot of validity in back filling pathways...listen to/read some of Dr Crisler's work... he's pretty advanced. HCG is mimicking LH which nearly every cell in the body has a use of some sort for...once on TRT the body's negative feedback mechanisms will sense "higher than prior" testosterone levels and start to reduce LH and FSH signals to the testes... making HCG supplementation highly valuable for well being and function. As little as 100iu a day is beneficial...

DAILY tiny pins of Test and pins of HCG would then be ideal to as closely mimic the natural pulses as possible BUT ... personally I've gone to an EOD protocol and seems to be great.
Test at 70-80mg MWF
HCG at 200iu TuThSatSun
Arim 1/2mg twice weekly to 3x if I feel estrogenic...
 

bad rad

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Small multiple doses is the way to go. Too much at once will also create a refractory period and the testes won't respond for about 96 hours.

Smals AG, Pieters GF, Boers GH, Raemakers JM, Hermus AR, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW. Differential effect of single high dose and divided small dose administration of human chorionic gonadotropin on Leydig cell steroidogenic desensitization. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1984 Feb;58(2):327-31.

This study compared the effect of a single high dose of hCG (1500 IU) with that of the same dose administered in multiple small doses (300 IU, once daily for 5 days) on Leydig cell steroidogenesis. Administration of a single high dose of hCG to seven healthy men raised the mean plasma testosterone (T) level to peak levels 2.1 ± 0.2 (SEM) x the baseline value at 48 h. Thereafter plasma T decreased to below normal (0.7 ± 0.1 x baseline) 7 days after the injection. The mean 17-hydroxyprogesterone (17-OHP) level peaked at 24 h (2.5 ± 0.2 x baseline) and then also fell to a nadir value of 0.6 ± 0.2 x baseline on day 7. Reflecting the early accumulation of 17-OHP over T, the 17 OHP/T ratio reached its maximum (1.6 ± 0.1 x baseline) at 24 h at the same time when plasma estradiol [(E2) 4.4 ± 0.6 x baseline] and the ratio E2/T (2.7 ± 0.3 x baseline) achieved their maximal values. Administration of 1500 IU hCG in five divided doses of 300 IU daily increased the mean plasma T levels to peak value of 2.1 ± 0.2 x baseline at 5 days and the levels remained elevated thereafter. The response of T as reflected by the area under the curve was almost twice as great as in the single dose study (2844 ± 360 vs. 1647 ± 214). In contrast to the single high dose experiment, mean plasma 17-OHP levels in the divided dose protocol did not peak at 24 h but only gradually increased. As the increase of T exceeded the 17-OHP increase at almost all time intervals, no accumulation of 17-OHP over T occurred as in the single dose experiment. Instead the 17-OHP/ T ratio fell to a nadir value of 0.6± 0.1 x baseline on day 7. The initial E2 peak was absent in the divided dose protocol and the E2/T ratio only marginally increased. Considering both experiments together a close relation was found between the hCGinduced increases in E2 and 17-OHP (r = +0.88, P < 0.001), as well as the ratio 17 OHP/T (r = +0.64, P< 0.02). Multiple small dose hCG administration in contrast to a single high dose does not desensitize but rather enhances Leydig cell steroidogenesis, probably by preventing the early accumulation of E2 and thereby the steroidogenic enzyme suppression which occurs after massive doses of hCG.
 
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bad rad

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In light of the study I posted I'll be switching to a M-F hCG injection protocol. There was a minimal increase in E2 using a higher than standard TRT dosage.
 

ferraribrad

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Mar 15, 2018
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DM2000, Have you noticed shrinkage of the testes over the last two years?

I do 500iu 2x per week
 

daman2

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Jun 10, 2012
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Im assuming its ok to use Bacteriostatic water to reconstitute the HCG??
 

caedus

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Aug 14, 2013
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Is it necessary?
I've been on TRT for 2+ years.
100mg per week upped to 200mg about a year ago. My PCP has been a life saver (prescribing test). When I asked about hcg she said to check with an endo... who said its only needed around the time I'm looking to have kids.... and he wanted to cut my trt dosage.... fk that...

Do I have to use hcg??

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I was on for 6 years at the time I tried to quit. Been back on a year now.

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daman2

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Jun 10, 2012
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Only thing is..Ive seen o many varying opinions on how long HCG will stay good for in BW...anyone have any opinions on this...I thought it would keep something for months as BW itself goes way beyond the expiration date from my experience.
 

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