TRT-doc or self admin, doses thoughts

[OuchThatHurts]

Per the most recent medical consense guidelines for TRT, the major debate has been the clinical definition of hypogonadism which is a potential indication for prescribing either transdermal or IM testosterone formulations. Most docs will start with either 200 mg of test cypionate or enanthate IM once every 2 weeks or once every 4 weeks. You will get bloodwork frequently so they can achieve the target therapeutic range of 450-600 ng/dL of total testosterone at which point your dose and frequency will essentially be established until the doc decides the cons outweigh the pros for continued TRT.

Not according to my doctor.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I started at 200mg/week. That put me above 1300

Dropped to 180mg/week. That put me at 1250

6 months ago I dropped to 150mg and just got labs done and I’m at 1120

Looks like a typical dose respondent curve. By these numbers, 100mg-125mg weekly would be plenty for replacement. One of the staff members here is >1500ng/dL on 200mg TC/E6D

 

[marssel]

Not according to my doctor.

Yea I’ve heard tons of docs in the 400-600 cap and plenty now in the 1200-1600 range I think it depends on the doc and of course labs/family history. I can say that 600 for me did not feel good, better than nothing but not like even a younger pre gear me.

 

[LK3]

ive had an rx but it was just to cover myself durring times of outside intrusion. the docs basically let me call the shots.

when im in a training rotation its generally 20mg 6x wk. if im dieting ill add a lil adex 2x wk. when i feel puffy or at the end of a training cycle i drop back to 10mg 6x wk for min 3 weeks rest.

prob once or twice a year i try n go a lil lower.

this has been for the last 2 years or so maybe 3.
for years before that i ran more like 250-300mg wk.

i feel i have become more sensitive doing things this way.
a lot is emerics ideas. read his 10mg thread.

 

[prodaf]

200mg/w is not a TRT

 

[slayer37]

I was pinning 15mg/day for 3 months(self prescribed)...bloods showed test @ >1500. I think most UGL test is overdosed.
I ended up just getting the rx.

 

[Swifto]

12.5mg per day SC puts me at about 25 nmol/L.

No AE.

 

[Mufasa123]

Doctor prescribed 200mg weekly test c puts me at 1000-1100 serum T which is top of Labcorp's human range. I inject 1x per week IM but use a slin pin. Been the same for a decade plus.

Only thing that's changed is much lower need for an AI now for whatever reason.

I will often add 100mg of deca for joints. Original TRT doc in my late 30s had me on 200mg test/200mg deca so I have Bloodwork for several years on that. Absolutely zero impact on lipids, liver etc. Test/deca even at 750/600 seems to be the only thing that doesn't touch my bloods whatsoever. Even primo and mast hit HDL though otherwise fairly benign. I say this just informationally for others.

 

[fisther69]

200mg/w is not a TRT

Y’all keep saying that, but I don’t think you understand that for some people it is.

Sometimes, depending where I’m at with my tbi treatment…200 won’t get me above 340ng/dc…there are so many more variables than a simple dosage

 

[marssel]

I was always at 500-600ng/dL naturally but my levels have fallen just due to age. But I've been >800ng naturally so he said we'll just keep in that range since that was my highest. But he's not happy with me right now bc my test numbers are wicked high. But I'm a little different because I was off a lot comparatively speaking and didn't even try a PED until I was 30. I am down to 300mg/wk (100mg x MWF) and that has me over 1800ng. Way too high. But only 3 more weeks until I start my summer protocol. So... meh.. LOL

Yea I was 23 my first shot I’d been doing cycles and competing for years before I got on and I notice a difference between me and most other guys who started in HS

 

[Alan1]

Y’all keep saying that, but I don’t think you understand that for some people it is.

Sometimes, depending where I’m at with my tbi treatment…200 won’t get me above 340ng/dc…there are so many more variables than a simple dosage

Yep. When I was on 2x/week injections, I was doing 130mg Monday and Thursday, so 260mg/week. The last two bloodtests I had on that dose showed levels between 530 - 620 (inject ~9:00am Mon, blood drawn ~9:00am Thursday before next scheduled inject).

 

[fisther69]

Yep. When I was on 2x/week injections, I was doing 130mg Monday and Thursday, so 260mg/week. The last two bloodtests I had on that dose showed levels between 530 - 620 (inject ~9:00am Mon, blood drawn ~9:00am Thursday before next scheduled inject).

One time they had me on 500mg/week and I couldn’t break 600ng…my adrenal system was fucked

 

[Alan1]

One time they had me on 500mg/week and I couldn’t break 600ng…my adrenal system was fucked

Wow, that's nuts. How did you go about correcting things and what's your TRT protocol now? Sorry if I missed it elsewhere...

 

[nothuman]

For the first time in 8 years since I've had a prescription, I am cancelling because it's so much cheaper to go UGL. Shitty that it has to be this way but I have to cut costs somewhere. Also, I tried to see a regular endo so insurance would cover it but they won't prescribe it with my hematocrit and hemoglobin being high. Really annoying.

 

[fisther69]

Wow, that's nuts. How did you go about correcting things and what's your TRT protocol now? Sorry if I missed it elsewhere...

Right now I’m on 300 test a week and 200 deca..I forget exactly how I came about the deca prescription but the test at 300 is keeping me above normal for about 9 months now

 

[Alan1]

Right now I’m on 300 test a week and 200 deca..I forget exactly how I came about the deca prescription but the test at 300 is keeping me above normal for about 9 months now

Nice. Good to hear things are stabilized and I'm a bit jealous of the Deca script. When I first started TRT way back, I was first scripted Test and GH. Didn't think I was getting a lot out of the GH at the time, and being a lot poorer than I am now it was a lot each month just for that. Spoke to the clinic owner about other protocol options and he was like "sure, let's try a combo of test, deca, and winstrol (injectable), lotta' clients enjoy that combo", so for the next couple years that's what I was on. Funny thing is how bloodwork changed; even though we cut the test dose in half and added 100mg deca and 75mg winstrol (25mg 3x/wk), my total test level went from mid 800's (250mg blended test) to over the top of the reference range, with free test consistently showing greater than 2x the top of the range. Ah, the days of the wild wild west TRT clinic...

 

[beast405]

Prescribed 200mg a week

 

[OuchThatHurts]

This is from the current PDR (Physicians Desk Reference). Not saying this is what is indicated for you, but this is what your GP/endo are seeing. Test E and C below in red. I currently get 200mg once every 2 weeks Test C for self administration with a 5ml multi-dose vial. (More info, link below)

DOSAGE & INDICATIONS​

For androgen replacement therapy in males with hypogonadism (primary and hypogonadotropic types).
For the treatment of hypogonadism (primary and hypogonadotropic types).
Subcutaneous dosage (testosterone enanthate subcutaneous injection only, i.e. Xyosted)
Adult Males
Initially, 75 mg subcutaneously in the abdominal region once weekly. Measure total testosterone trough concentrations (measure 7 days after the most recent dose) following 6 weeks of dosing, following 6 weeks after dose adjustment, and then periodically during treatment. A trough concentration between 350 ng/dL and 650 ng/dL generally provides testosterone exposures in the normal range during the entire dosing interval. DOSE ADJUSTMENTS: Decrease the dose by 25 mg is the total testosterone trough concentration is 650 ng/dL or greater. Increase the dose by 25 mg if the total testosterone trough concentration is less than 350 ng/dL. Maintain the same dose if the total testosterone trough concentration is 350 ng/dL to 649 ng/dL.[63592]
Intramuscular dosage (testosterone undecanoate injection only; i.e., Aveed)
Adult males
Initially, 750 mg IM. After 4 weeks, give a repeat dose of 750 mg IM, then 750 mg IM every 10 weeks thereafter.
Intramuscular dosage (testosterone cypionate or testosterone enanthate)
Adult males
50 to 400 mg intramuscularly once every 2 to 4 weeks.
Adolescents
For the initiation of pubertal growth: 40 to 50 mg/m2 IM monthly until the growth rate falls to prepubertal levels. For the terminal growth phase: 100 mg/m2 IM monthly until growth ceases. Maintenance of virilization may be achieved with a dose of 100 mg/m2 IM twice monthly.

More here:

Depo-Testosterone (testosterone cypionate) dose, indications, adverse effects, interactions... from PDR.net

PDR Drug Summaries are concise point-of-care prescribing, dosing and administering information to help phsyicans more efficiently and accurately prescribe in their practice PDR's drug summaries are available free of charge and serve as a great resource for US based MDs, DOs, NPs and PAs in...

www.pdr.net

 

[DrZaius7]

So that’s good info but we’re you gunning for 1250 or what’s the reason for these drops I think under 2000 is above normal but not playing with fire if your labs are good and no genetic predispositions.

@marssel my TRT clinic started me at 200mg and they were fine having me stay there.
I personally wanted to step it down to see what dose would keep me around 800.

I‘m 41 and thinking longevity. Plus my Endo recommended that I try to keep around 800 as my red cell counts, etc were at the high end.
Plus I’m very estrogen sensitive and 200mg/week required 2mg/week of arimidex to keep my nips from being sensitive

Just wanna find that good balance so I know where it is.

 

[bad rad]

200mg/w is not a TRT

That akin to saying nobody needs more than 2K Cal daily. There are lots of factors that influence blood levels. Like another member I have mTBI related to my career. My TRT doc couldn't figure out why my serum levels were so low on 200mg/weekly until I disclosed the mTBI issues. He said that's common to see low response to TRT due to mTBI.