TRT + Fertility Protocol, and Few Questions

Sacario · Mar 30, 2022

TheOtherOne55 said:
Its a goiiin man lol
I'm a serial optimist so i never get down. BLAH lookin, but itll get better.
Parallel pathing with us trying ourselves and gearing up for IVF.
I have swimmers, just want to keep them in the normal and now low category now as we keep pushing.

On HCG right now (doc prescribed) and have been throwing in generic HMG...but...the main source here is down and out for a bit with overseas issues.
Does anyone here know any other HMG sources? This makes me pretty nervous as i feel like im clooose and cant cant out.
anyone??

I just bought some from usdomship-hgh. They are on here under another name I believe. It's a Chinese brand from a hospital.

tren_plz · Mar 30, 2022

TheOtherOne55 said:
Its a goiiin man lol
I'm a serial optimist so i never get down. BLAH lookin, but itll get better.
Parallel pathing with us trying ourselves and gearing up for IVF.
I have swimmers, just want to keep them in the normal and now low category now as we keep pushing.

On HCG right now (doc prescribed) and have been throwing in generic HMG...but...the main source here is down and out for a bit with overseas issues.
Does anyone here know any other HMG sources? This makes me pretty nervous as i feel like im clooose and cant cant out.
anyone??

Will your doc not prescribe HMG?

TheOtherOne55 · Mar 30, 2022

tren_plz said:
Will your doc not prescribe HMG?

Nope, but fuck it. I know HMG works so I threw it in.
Last run on HMG/HCG i had 40 million in the sperm analysis.
Was lazy and got off and it was 6 million. Luckily ive never been at 0 which the Doc is shocked about.

Been on HCG/HMG for couple months so and confident if i did another analysis it would be 40M + again.
Honestly, at this moment im crossing my fingers and hoping we hit the nail on the head OURSELVES rather than having to go the IVF route.

Gaintrain72 said:
I’m having the same issue m8

I feel ya man. Keep goin.

TheOtherOne55 · Mar 31, 2022

Question for the guys who have had bloodtests on HMG/HCG - does that have a maaajor influence on the LH/FSH in bloodwork?
I feel like ive seen people report BOTH sides. Guys who had pretty good sperm analysis with meh LH/FSH on bloodwork and others who have pretty good LH/FSH on bloodwork and meh sperm analysis.

I'm asking because ive been on generic HMG/HCG for 10 weeks now and had some bloodwork done last week.
FSH: 1.5L
LH: <0.2L

i was honestly surprised it was that low. Wondering if this means the HMG/HCG isnt doing a thiiiing or what.
Should i just cough up some cash an get another analysis done?

Thappy · Mar 31, 2022

Posted in here before and have recovered my sperm count from 0-108mil before.

Long story short didnt think i was going to have anymore kids anddddd yes that may have changed.

I came off test completely last time but really want to try and avoid that as i felt like trash and took me a long time to get my self back together mentally and sexually(probably linked) and i feel thats what headed my previous marriage down hill.

Currently running 500mg test 400mg tren e(going to finish the tren e its the last bottle) then go down to 250mg of test for a few months

My protocol im thinking

62mg or 125mg of test a week(open for feed back)

1000iu of hcg eod for the first bottle(5000iu) then go back to 500iu eod

25mg clomid eod

20-40mg nolva ed

50-100mg proviron ed

Aromasin as needed

i have one pen of gonal f so will probably save this for 4 weeks into the protocol and do 37iu twice a week or on hcg off days.

Anything people think i should add or take out? or any suggestions?

Gaintrain72 · Mar 31, 2022

TheOtherOne55 said:
Question for the guys who have had bloodtests on HMG/HCG - does that have a maaajor influence on the LH/FSH in bloodwork?
I feel like ive seen people report BOTH sides. Guys who had pretty good sperm analysis with meh LH/FSH on bloodwork and others who have pretty good LH/FSH on bloodwork and meh sperm analysis.

I'm asking because ive been on generic HMG/HCG for 10 weeks now and had some bloodwork done last week.
FSH: 1.5L
LH: <0.2L

i was honestly surprised it was that low. Wondering if this means the HMG/HCG isnt doing a thiiiing or what.
Should i just cough up some cash an get another analysis done?

My lh and fsh went up alot but did inject an hour before blood analysis. When did you do take bloods?

OuchThatHurts · Apr 1, 2022

RoyHobbs said:
No offense but if she has a miscarriage tomorrow (God forbid) you’re first concern is about being in a fertile state to impregnate her immediately?

This would not be healthy physically for her or mentally for either of you.

But hey whatever you think. Wish you the best.

Jesus Christ dude. Are you drunk? It took a lot of work for their family to get here. It's a higher than average risk pregnancy. So no offense, but GTFO of his thread.

OuchThatHurts · Apr 1, 2022

TheOtherOne55 said:
Question for the guys who have had bloodtests on HMG/HCG - does that have a maaajor influence on the LH/FSH in bloodwork?
I feel like ive seen people report BOTH sides. Guys who had pretty good sperm analysis with meh LH/FSH on bloodwork and others who have pretty good LH/FSH on bloodwork and meh sperm analysis.

I'm asking because ive been on generic HMG/HCG for 10 weeks now and had some bloodwork done last week.
FSH: 1.5L
LH: <0.2L

i was honestly surprised it was that low. Wondering if this means the HMG/HCG isnt doing a thiiiing or what.
Should i just cough up some cash an get another analysis done?

I've heard other guys on here say hCG/HMG is very suppressive for endogenous LH and FSH. It would make sense that it would be very suppressive to the GnRH axis. (gonadotropins)

TheOtherOne55 · Apr 1, 2022

OuchThatHurts said:
I've heard other guys on here say hCG/HMG is very suppressive for endogenous LH and FSH. It would make sense that it would be very suppressive to the GnRH axis. (gonadotropins)

Interesting, I had heard that before but I had seen such mixed results.
Maybe its somewhat similar to exo GH. Serum GH will look low to normal, unless you get bloodwork done with 1-3 hours.
Serum is the LH/FSH and the sperm analysis is the IGF score possibly.
Just annoying. Im going to continue to keep taking going and get another analysis in 4-6 weeks.

Thappy · Apr 1, 2022

TheOtherOne55 said:
Interesting, I had heard that before but I had seen such mixed results.
Maybe its somewhat similar to exo GH. Serum GH will look low to normal, unless you get bloodwork done with 1-3 hours.
Serum is the LH/FSH and the sperm analysis is the IGF score possibly.
Just annoying. Im going to continue to keep taking going and get another analysis in 4-6 weeks.

My dr always said if you want to recover stop taking the hcg after two weeks, if you want to stay on(or go back on) keep taking it and HMG

OuchThatHurts · Apr 1, 2022

I definitely think there is a negative feedback loop there.

"Treatment with hCG (1500 IU intramuscularly twice weekly for 3 weeks) resulted in descensus of testes in 9 out of 18 patients. In all boys but one, irrespective of age, hCG induced a marked increase in testosterone into the adult range (from undetectable to 21.8 (7.0-35.4) nmol/l; P<0.001) and completely suppressed FSH and LH levels."

Serum inhibin B, FSH, LH and testosterone levels before and after human chorionic gonadotropin stimulation in prepubertal boys with cryptorchidism - PubMed

We therefore suggest that, in the prepubertal testes, inhibin B is secreted from the prepubertal Sertoli cells following hCG, whereas early pubertal testes with more differentiated Sertoli cells are not able to secrete inhibin B in response to hCG stimulation, perhaps due to lack of germ...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Flex500 · Apr 1, 2022

TheOtherOne55 said:
Interesting, I had heard that before but I had seen such mixed results.
Maybe its somewhat similar to exo GH. Serum GH will look low to normal, unless you get bloodwork done with 1-3 hours.
Serum is the LH/FSH and the sperm analysis is the IGF score possibly.
Just annoying. Im going to continue to keep taking going and get another analysis in 4-6 weeks.

So just my two cents my LH and FSH were all over the map on bloods. When I started this thread they were basically back to normal and then they were nearly undetectable when I was at peak sperm count on a solid hcg/hmg regimen and consistent with it. I honestly didn't know what to make of it.

Flex500 · Apr 1, 2022

Thappy said:
Posted in here before and have recovered my sperm count from 0-108mil before.

Long story short didnt think i was going to have anymore kids anddddd yes that may have changed.

I came off test completely last time but really want to try and avoid that as i felt like trash and took me a long time to get my self back together mentally and sexually(probably linked) and i feel thats what headed my previous marriage down hill.

Currently running 500mg test 400mg tren e(going to finish the tren e its the last bottle) then go down to 250mg of test for a few months

My protocol im thinking

62mg or 125mg of test a week(open for feed back)

1000iu of hcg eod for the first bottle(5000iu) then go back to 500iu eod

25mg clomid eod

20-40mg nolva ed

50-100mg proviron ed

Aromasin as needed

i have one pen of gonal f so will probably save this for 4 weeks into the protocol and do 37iu twice a week or on hcg off days.

Anything people think i should add or take out? or any suggestions?

It's a tough one to figure out. Looking back, I'm glad I went off of test yet would have gotten back on a low dose more quickly with my protocol. With the higher test dose and tren I'd imagine you have nothing going on right now and a bottomed out sperm count, which would be expected.

It all depends how fast you want this to happen. If it's ASAP I'd consider once your cycle is over to remove test for an 8 week time period or lower to a very small dose....50-70mgs/week. I posted a study in this thread that shows clomid may be effective with a test dose below 100mgs, but even more likely with a dose below 80mgs.

It sounds like you are not insanely urgent so I'd maybe start some HCG when you drop down to your 250mgs dose, even a small amount. Again, it all depends on your timeline. I'd have different thoughts on an ASAP timeline vs 8-12 months.

Shadow Project · Apr 1, 2022

TheOtherOne55 said:
Question for the guys who have had bloodtests on HMG/HCG - does that have a maaajor influence on the LH/FSH in bloodwork?
I feel like ive seen people report BOTH sides. Guys who had pretty good sperm analysis with meh LH/FSH on bloodwork and others who have pretty good LH/FSH on bloodwork and meh sperm analysis.

I'm asking because ive been on generic HMG/HCG for 10 weeks now and had some bloodwork done last week.
FSH: 1.5L
LH: <0.2L

i was honestly surprised it was that low. Wondering if this means the HMG/HCG isnt doing a thiiiing or what.
Should i just cough up some cash an get another analysis done?

FSH: Your hMG is actually rFSH and actually contains rFSH. These numbers are normal.
LH: is supposed to be near zero when on test or hCG due to negative feedback loop.

tren_plz · Apr 2, 2022

Interesting. I'll be starting my own fertility journey here shortly. Consulting with an Endo here in Frisco, TX next week.

Going to be honest and just tell him what i'm doing and what I want to do and see what he says.

Thappy · Apr 4, 2022

Flex500 said:
It's a tough one to figure out. Looking back, I'm glad I went off of test yet would have gotten back on a low dose more quickly with my protocol. With the higher test dose and tren I'd imagine you have nothing going on right now and a bottomed out sperm count, which would be expected.

It all depends how fast you want this to happen. If it's ASAP I'd consider once your cycle is over to remove test for an 8 week time period or lower to a very small dose....50-70mgs/week. I posted a study in this thread that shows clomid may be effective with a test dose below 100mgs, but even more likely with a dose below 80mgs.

It sounds like you are not insanely urgent so I'd maybe start some HCG when you drop down to your 250mgs dose, even a small amount. Again, it all depends on your timeline. I'd have different thoughts on an ASAP timeline vs 8-12 months.

I actually have decided to stop the tren and i am switching to cruise dose of test now until july. once i add hcg ill drop my test dose right down.

Last time with no test i came off a 6 month run of tren 600mg or more the whole time. I had 0 sperm, added hcg for 2 months got up to 15000, then added HMG and got through 3 weeks of that and had another SA and it was at 108 million. then found out a few days later she was pregnant. was surprised it happened so quick to be honest.

Im in two minds about the clomid as i blasted hcg for 2 weeks then added clomid last time(but at 100mg) and thats when i mentally went bad. i figure 25mg EOD should be better than nothing and with test in there should be feeling great.

The best i actually have ever felt was on 125mg of test and 500iu of hcg 3x a week.

Flex500 · Apr 4, 2022

Thappy said:
I actually have decided to stop the tren and i am switching to cruise dose of test now until july. once i add hcg ill drop my test dose right down.

Last time with no test i came off a 6 month run of tren 600mg or more the whole time. I had 0 sperm, added hcg for 2 months got up to 15000, then added HMG and got through 3 weeks of that and had another SA and it was at 108 million. then found out a few days later she was pregnant. was surprised it happened so quick to be honest.

Im in two minds about the clomid as i blasted hcg for 2 weeks then added clomid last time(but at 100mg) and thats when i mentally went bad. i figure 25mg EOD should be better than nothing and with test in there should be feeling great.

The best i actually have ever felt was on 125mg of test and 500iu of hcg 3x a week.

yeah I cannot do clomid at all. I would highly recommend using enclomiphene if you can get it. You won't get any of those nasty side effects and I literally mean none. It's hard to know how much the EC was helping or not, as you noted, but with really no down side I just took 12.5 mgs of enclomiphene per day. It coincided with my large increase in sperm count but that is also when I got serious about being more structured with my protocol so I'd give most credit to the HMG.

Thappy · Apr 4, 2022

Flex500 said:
yeah I cannot do clomid at all. I would highly recommend using enclomiphene if you can get it. You won't get any of those nasty side effects and I literally mean none. It's hard to know how much the EC was helping or not, as you noted, but with really no down side I just took 12.5 mgs of enclomiphene per day. It coincided with my large increase in sperm count but that is also when I got serious about being more structured with my protocol so I'd give most credit to the HMG.

100% on the HMG unfortunatly dont have access to that now but have 900iu of gonal f