TRT + Fertility Protocol, and Few Questions

[marssel]

Oh yeah for sure man that is just a restock. I've been on an HCG protocol for five months now with added HMG for the last ~2.5 and clomid. I take a lot of NAC but did just add glutathione as well good call on that.

PQQ and Co Q 10 help bug time with sperm health and motility, I took a lot but it was a game changer as far as swimming strong and straight with long tails.

 

[bad rad]

Just for logging purposes (yeah this is turning into my pregnancy log lmao) we bought one of those more expense ovulation kits and it said "highly fertile" Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday so we did the deed each day

Next period expected to start around 11/30-12/2 so we will see!

also ordered ~25 bottles each of HMG and HCG from Direct. Highly considering jumping back on my 10mgs a day once I get that.

Fingers crossed. Will be getting my SA week after next as well.

I'd start with 10mg EOD. I'm a week in and it's better than off completely. Emeric gets 600s serum levels on this dose so you might too. I respond with very low serum levels but you'll likely have good serum numbers since you are still using hCG/hMG. Going forward I'll maintain 10mg/hCG daily once this is over for TRT. Based off previous blood work I expect it will keep me around 600ng/mL.

Only a week into Emeric's fertility protocol but there is likely something to it. After every Tribestan dose (500mg x3 daily) my testes swell way up like before TRT. For some reason mine change size a lot many times daily. My body composition changed within a week and I look like I workout again vs a guy that quit training years ago. My delts really swelled up so sensitivity must be higher after those weeks off. Strength shot up too.

 

[marssel]

Yea I ran Menopur just the whole pen once a week for 8 weeks but what really did it was the 50 mg a day of Clomid and most of all the 1,000 iu a day of HCG. The doc recommended 500 EOD, I knew better so I ran my Pregnyl that I carry and at that dose it took about 6 months and my count was in the millions per ml, up from 0 so, and HCG is cheap, for me obviously but even at my price it is cheaper than getting it from a compounding pharmacy with a script.

 

[Flex500]

Thanks for both the reply’s really enjoying the conversation!

My wife wasn’t due for her period for a few days as she is on the dot 25 or 26 day cycle. She oddly got her period today on day 23 which is really odd.

I’m feeling pretty optimistic overall. Got more enclomiphene and hcg and hmg going on as well. I think the enclomiphene is really working. I’ve only been on it like 60 days but man I actually have erections many mornings.

It finally feels like I’m recovering. I’m going to get my semen analysis this week so I know what’s going on.

 

[marssel]

remember your sperm can live in her 3 days so you can start hammering it before peak ovulation

 

[Flex500]

remember your sperm can live in her 3 days so you can start hammering it before peak ovulation

For sure it's a great point. We are using those ovulation detectors but are going to make sure we start a good week before expected ovulation. That's a great point.

 

[marssel]

Yea every day/drop matters, we are in our third trimester as I train people and prep for spring and it’s a totally insane thing, I always wanted kids just waited a lil too long to do it the easy way but I’m glad I woulda been a shit father even 10 years ago

 

[Flex500]

I'd start with 10mg EOD. I'm a week in and it's better than off completely. Emeric gets 600s serum levels on this dose so you might too. I respond with very low serum levels but you'll likely have good serum numbers since you are still using hCG/hMG. Going forward I'll maintain 10mg/hCG daily once this is over for TRT. Based off previous blood work I expect it will keep me around 600ng/mL.

Only a week into Emeric's fertility protocol but there is likely something to it. After every Tribestan dose (500mg x3 daily) my testes swell way up like before TRT. For some reason mine change size a lot many times daily. My body composition changed within a week and I look like I workout again vs a guy that quit training years ago. My delts really swelled up so sensitivity must be higher after those weeks off. Strength shot up too.

I think you answered this previously but I cannot find it...where did you order the tribestan? I checked amazon but it has a january delivery.

 

[bad rad]

I think you answered this previously but I cannot find it...where did you order the tribestan? I checked amazon but it has a january delivery.

That's probably correct since I order through Amazon too. Those retailers ship directly from Bulgaria but I received my last order in less than a week.

 

[Flex500]

That's probably correct since I order through Amazon too. Those retailers ship directly from Bulgaria but I received my last order in less than a week.

ahh sweet ok thanks!

 

[bad rad]

ahh sweet ok thanks!

I added DHEA back in today as I've was off for my new TRT provider blood work. My testicles increased in size, libido jumped, and well being significantly increased. Going back over previous blood work 100mg daily is my sweet spot but once I add pregnenolone back in I'll drop it to 50mg daily.

My system is shot after all the years of operating and I need to supplement everything since my body just can't produce the signals to stimulate anything endogenously.

 

[Flex500]

I added DHEA back in today as I've was off for my new TRT provider blood work. My testicles increased in size, libido jumped, and well being significantly increased. Going back over previous blood work 100mg daily is my sweet spot but once I add pregnenolone back in I'll drop it to 50mg daily.

My system is shot after all the years of operating and I need to supplement everything since my body just can't produce the signals to stimulate anything endogenously.

I loaded up the syringe yesterday to start 10mgs EOD but didn't do it lol. I'm such a sissy.

I read about every thread from emeric and I know his stance is the 10mgs either ED or EOD is not going to shut down sperm production or impact motility. I just can't quite square that in my mind. Now that being said if I'm taking the HCG and HMG it's hard to imagine the low of a dose of test impacting what those drugs are doing (or actually any dose of test for that matter as those drugs should still "work"). I also theorize the enclomiphene may or should still have a positive impact on that low of a dose of test. The thing I find interesting about emerics comments he is saying you don't even need the fertility drugs and the humanafort is the key with the tribestan being the cherry on top. That, I really can't square. Even on a dose that low I'd have to think your body would reduce LH and FSH. The closest I could find was a study on a one shot of 100mgs of test which reduced LH and FSH output by over 30%

I did talk to my doctor and he basically said of course if you wanted a way to play it 100% safe just stay off the test but if I add in 40-70mgs of test a week it's not like I'm "starting over" persay if I'm continuing with the fertility drugs.

As I said before, this has nothing to do with muscle. I could not care less about that right now. This is about me trying to have sex each month with what is basically a cooked noodle lmao.

 

[bad rad]

I understand your concerns but since you're bypassing the system I don't think you need to worry about the low dose shutting you down. You'll still have LH/FSH in your body with hMG and the hCG will further stimulate the Leydig cells.

I got off because I had to show that my system won't restart so I took the opportunity to try and raise my endogenous LH/FSH. After 6 weeks of Clomid and hCG my LH/FSH levels were only slightly in the low range and my body was still not making much testoserone with hCG added. I'm still waiting on a plan from my new provider.

Tribestan has a lot of research showing it works directly on sperm cell production/maturation independent of LH/FSH levels. That's why I added it to my regimen and started copying an old plan from Emeric. There's anecdotal evidence that Tribesan keeps your testes primed for LH/FSH once you're off AAS.

All that said I'd start low and increase as needed for the effect desired from adding TRT back in. There's evidence that having serum test levels in range will positively augment the hCG/hMG. I need to get some FSH once I get my new script.

 

[Flex500]

I understand your concerns but since you're bypassing the system I don't think you need to worry about the low dose shutting you down. You'll still have LH/FSH in your body with hMG and the hCG will further stimulate the Leydig cells.

I got off because I had to show that my system won't restart so I took the opportunity to try and raise my endogenous LH/FSH. After 6 weeks of Clomid and hCG my LH/FSH levels were only slightly in the low range and my body was still not making much testoserone with hCG added. I'm still waiting on a plan from my new provider.

Tribestan has a lot of research showing it works directly on sperm cell production/maturation independent of LH/FSH levels. That's why I added it to my regimen and started copying an old plan from Emeric. There's anecdotal evidence that Tribesan keeps your testes primed for LH/FSH once you're off AAS.

All that said I'd start low and increase as needed for the effect desired from adding TRT back in. There's evidence that having serum test levels in range will positively augment the hCG/hMG. I need to get some FSH once I get my new script.

Thanks so much man truly appreciate all the conversation and feedback!

 

[bodybuilder8806]

Agreed with what both of you guys said above about the research. The main point is that for most of us that have been on TRT for extended periods of time, our natural FSH/LH that we will be able to recover with things like clomid etc will be negligible compared to using something like HCG/HMG in combination with each other.

If we're able to get 30-40% of our natural sperm count back over 6-12 months of coming off TRT in an optimal situation and feel terrible vs 80-100%+ using HCG/HMG and while staying on TRT I'll take the HCG/HMG every time.

Unless for whatever reason you unable to obtain HCG/HMG then going the clomid route and coming off makes sense I guess, but with access to all of the drugs needed here on the site I don't see the point in making it harder for yourself.

 

[Flex500]

Agreed with what both of you guys said above about the research. The main point is that for most of us that have been on TRT for extended periods of time, our natural FSH/LH that we will be able to recover with things like clomid etc will be negligible compared to using something like HCG/HMG in combination with each other.

If we're able to get 30-40% of our natural sperm count back over 6-12 months of coming off TRT in an optimal situation and feel terrible vs 80-100%+ using HCG/HMG and while staying on TRT I'll take the HCG/HMG every time.

Unless for whatever reason you unable to obtain HCG/HMG then going the clomid route and coming off makes sense I guess, but with access to all of the drugs needed here on the site I don't see the point in making it harder for yourself.

That's a great point man. I think part of me being so gun-shy has to do with me being 39 and my wife turns 39 in february so I'm so scared to do anything. If I were even a year younger I would have 100% stayed on trt.

I am very much starting to think if you have the funds a good source for hcg/hmg it's best to stay on. I'm struggling to have sex 3 times a month and if I was on even a miniscule dose of test it would be easily 10 times up to 15.

 

[bodybuilder8806]

That's a great point man. I think part of me being so gun-shy has to do with me being 39 and my wife turns 39 in february so I'm so scared to do anything. If I were even a year younger I would have 100% stayed on trt.

I am very much starting to think if you have the funds a good source for hcg/hmg it's best to stay on. I'm struggling to have sex 3 times a month and if I was on even a miniscule dose of test it would be easily 10 times up to 15.

Yeah that's going to make it very tough to get your wife pregnant if your libido is bad too. I just figure regardless of age even if you are able to maximize your own production by coming off for even 1-2 years it still wouldn't be as effective as hammering yourself with HMG / HCG. Not advice just my opinion based on what worked for me.

 

[Flex500]

Yeah that's going to make it very tough to get your wife pregnant if your libido is bad too. I just figure regardless of age even if you are able to maximize your own production by coming off for even 1-2 years it still wouldn't be as effective as hammering yourself with HMG / HCG. Not advice just my opinion based on what worked for me.

There is something to that and my line of thinking is matching yours. I think the million dollar question is

Option 1: Stay on TRT with HCG/HMG

vs

Option 2: Off TRT with HCG/HMG

I could argue Option 1 is much better because you get the best of both worlds. High libido, energy, performance with the sperm production. Others will say you will not maximize sperm production unless you are off test completely. That doesn't make sense to me either but so many experts say if you wish for a quick pregnancy come off it all. But, as you noted, if you are on hcg and hmg you are subverting negative feedback anyway so what does it matter?

 

[Flex500]

Yeah that's going to make it very tough to get your wife pregnant if your libido is bad too. I just figure regardless of age even if you are able to maximize your own production by coming off for even 1-2 years it still wouldn't be as effective as hammering yourself with HMG / HCG. Not advice just my opinion based on what worked for me.

Hey I saw some of your posts in other threads...would you mind posting the protocol you did exactly? I think you mentioned dropping from 105mgs trt to 70mgs trt and using HCG and HMG?

 

[bodybuilder8806]

Hey I saw some of your posts in other threads...would you mind posting the protocol you did exactly? I think you mentioned dropping from 105mgs trt to 70mgs trt and using HCG and HMG?

Sure, the main reason for dropping the Test dose was because I don't like using AI's and HCG spikes estrogen a good bit, so the goal was just enough Testosterone / Estrogen to feel good. Later introduced a little primo and raised Test back up. This was after being on TRT for 15+ years with no HCG.

For about 6 months:

70mg Test E
200iu HCG daily
HMG 75iu 2 x weekly (added in around month 4)



Wife became pregnant around month 5-6.

The main things that seemed to have the most impact was HCG to get things online and working and HMG added in later to really kick up spermatogenesis.