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TRT plus?

I see. Well there is shedding and there is follicle miniaturization. Shedding due to stressors will return. Shedding due to miniaturization, DHT shrinkage, can be permanent. 19-Nor and EQ tend to be a few of the friendlier hair drugs which is why I didn't understand the reasoning. Best of luck to you.
 
 
You’re reading this wrong. It doesn’t say it renders Nandrolone useless it just says it doesn’t increase its efficacy. Further the study doesn’t convey what dosages, populations etc were used. It’s a summary of nothing. The more plates more dates guy says some things that make sense and others that don’t. He’s no,different than any other self proclaimed gurus. He’s just trying to make a buck.
 
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You’re reading this wrong. It doesn’t say it renders Nandrolone useless it just says it doesn’t increase its efficacy. Further the study doesn’t convey what dosages, populations etc were used. It’s a summary of nothing. The more plates more dates guy says some things that make sense and others that don’t. He’s no,different than any other self proclaimed gurus. He’s just trying to make a buck.
Thank you for this. I was a bit suspect of him actually. Appreciate you looking. So finasteride or dutasteride is ok with deca?
 
I'm with Blswan here... not sure why everyone is recomending DHT derivatives, as clearly you're looking to maintain scalp hair. I agree, as I'm now approaching 48, I have recently taken out the use of DHT products, as I have noticed thinning and think a full head of hair more favorable than the composition that these products provide. According to a steriodal profile: "Winstrol, Primobolan, Masteron, Anavar, as well as several others which are all derivatives of the parent anabolic steroid DHT."

I'm assuming you're looking to increase muscle:

Why not just up your Test dose to raise levels, perhaps adding proviron to keep Test effective at low(er) doses?... Human Growth Hormone is another addition which is know to compliment well with Test alone. (Personally, I wouldn't take HGH... or at least not for prolonged use, as it also grows intestinal tissues and organs).
 
Thank you for this. I was a bit suspect of him actually. Appreciate you looking. So finasteride or dutasteride is ok wi
You’re reading this wrong. It doesn’t say it renders Nandrolone useless it just says it doesn’t increase its efficacy. Further the study doesn’t convey what dosages, populations etc were used. It’s a summary of nothing. The more plates more dates guy says some things that make sense and others that don’t. He’s no,different than any other self proclaimed gurus. He’s just trying to make a buck.
Go to the paper,
Nandrolone finasteride combination increases androgenic side effects, not more effective

Chemical athletes who want to increase the effectiveness of nandrolone decanoate by adding finasteride [structural formula shown below] will be disappointed. A Population Council study shows that the combination raises the androgenic side effects of nandrolone but won't give you a single gram more muscle mass.

MENT

The Council researchers were particularly interested in a nandrolone analogue that was invented in the sixties: the anabolic steroid 7-alpha-methylnandrolone [structural formula shown below]. The methyl group of this steroid is not on the C17-alpha [as it is in methandienone] but on the C7-alpha. Its full name is 7-alpha-methyl-19-nor-testosterone, or MENT for short.

A lot of research was done in the late nineties on the male contraceptive properties of MENT. The reason for this was that low doses of MENT inhibit the production of FSH and LH. The study we refer to here was part of the MENT project. It was a piece of fundamental research in which the scientists compared MENT with testosterone, nandrolone and methyl testosterone.



You’re reading this wrong. It doesn’t say it renders Nandrolone useless it just says it doesn’t increase its efficacy. Further the study doesn’t convey what dosages, populations etc were used. It’s a summary of nothing. The more plates more dates guy says some things that make sense and others that don’t. He’s no,different than any other self proclaimed gurus. He’s just trying to make a buck.

In rats, the ratio between the undesirable androgenic and desirable anabolic properties of MENT was better than that ratio in testosterone but less good than the ratio in nandrolone.



Nandrolone finasteride combination  increases androgenic side effects, not more effective


Finasteride
Finasteride


MENT

Now part of the androgenic effect of testosterone is actually due to its metabolites. The 5-alpha-reductase enzyme converts testosterone into the androgenic dihydrotestosterone (DHT). And the same enzyme converts nandrolone into the not very active dihydronandrolone (DHN). So how does that work with MENT? To find out the researchers repeated their experiments but added finasteride, a steroid that sabotages 5-alpha-reductase.


The androgenic effects of testosterone and MENT were unaffected by finasteride, but the androgenic effect of nandrolone plus finasteride was one and a half times greater than that of nandrolone without finasteride, the researchers discovered.


Nandrolone finasteride combination  increases androgenic side effects, not more effective


The enzyme blocker had no positive effects on muscle mass. Not with testosterone, not with MENT, not with nandrolone.


Nandrolone finasteride combination  increases androgenic side effects, not more effective


Conclusion
Nandrolone and finasteride? Bad idea.

Source:
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1995 Jun;53(1-6):253-7.
Look at the paper. In the animal model nandrolone increased ventral prostate when used in the presence of 5 alpha reductase inhibitor. The reasone given is that the inhibitor stops conversion to of nandrolone to dihydro nandrolone, a low androgenic compound. So, using the ventral prostate as an indicator of androgenic activity, and hense an indicator of likely MPB hair loss, nandrolone in the presence of the inhibitor is problematic to the hair. Moreover, nandrolone in the presence of the inhibitor renders nandrolone less potent due to the absence of the dihydro nandrolone metabolite, since it does have anabolic activity.
 
Look at the paper. In the animal model nandrolone increased ventral prostate when used in the presence of 5 alpha reductase inhibitor. The reasone given is that the inhibitor stops conversion to of nandrolone to dihydro nandrolone, a low androgenic compound. So, using the ventral prostate as an indicator of androgenic activity, and hense an indicator of likely MPB hair loss, nandrolone in the presence of the inhibitor is problematic to the hair. Moreover, nandrolone in the presence of the inhibitor renders nandrolone less potent due to the absence of the dihydro nandrolone metabolite, since it does have anabolic activity.
Thank you!
 
I like Aveed®️, testosterone undecanoate(similar to Nebido). After 2 shots, you just get one 750mg/3ml shot e10weeks. Some could add 50-100mg Deca. I noticed good effects and took for almost a year. Some data from Nebido/Aveed study.


In line with the reduction in BMI, there was a significant reduction of total weight (mean weight loss: 5.88 kg, range 2.64-9.11 kg) and waist circumference (mean waist loss: -7.11 cm, range -4.64 to -9.59 cm). These reductions in weight and waist were confirmed after the adjustment for the aforementioned confounders and the change in BMI.



In addition, treatment was found to result in a significant reduction in fat mass, with a mean fat loss of -4.56% (range 3.36% to -5.76%).



Glycemic / metabolic profile and blood pressure

Injectable testosterone undecanoate treatment resulted in a significant reduction of fasting glucose (mean -0.51 mmol/L, range -0.27 to 0.75) and HbA1c levels (mean -0.68%, range -0.32% to -1.04%), as well as improvement of insulin resistance (measured by HOMA index).



Treatment also improved the lipid profile by reducing total cholesterol (mean -0.89 mmol/L, range -0.60 to -1.19 mmol/L) and triglyceride levels (mean -0.44 mmol/L, range -0.24 to -0.63 mmol/L), and increasing high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol levels (mean +0.15 mmol/L, range +0.08 to +0.23 mmol/L).



Improvement was also seen in blood pressure, with mean reductions in systolic and diastolic blood pressure of 10 mmHg and 7 mmHg, respectively.



Sexual function

A significant improvement of erectile function was found after treatment with injectable testosterone undecanoate. This finding was especially notable in studies of clearly hypogonadal men with total testosterone level ≤ 12 nmol/L, and confirms previous research showing that sexual symptoms are among the main manifestations of full-blown testosterone deficiency. By the Fifth injection 96% of the patients with ED problems reported over previous androgen therapy. *ie (Cypionate , Enanthate, Adroderm, Androgel, Testim, Axion).



International Prostate Symptom Score (IPSS)

Treatment was also found to result in a significant reduction of the International Prostate Symptom Score (IPSS). As for sexual function, this finding was especially notable in studies of clearly hypogonadal men with total testosterone level ≤ 12 nmol/L.



Bone mineral density

A significantly increased lumbar bone mineral density was also found.



Depression

Depressive symptoms significantly improved after treatment.



Safety parameters

When looking at occurrence of side effects, it is important to know the total sample size to get a perspective. In this meta-analysis, the included studies together had 3359 men in the treatment group and 478 patients on placebo.

Max
Info
 
Excellent
 
Seems like the trial was under powered in the placebo arm.
 
Everything I have read about PRIMO (well 99%) would suggest it would be the perfect addition to TRT. I have never used it, but I read it has very little side effects, and helps you build lean muscle. Nothing dramatic, but very noticeable. Anyone have any experience good or bad with this?
 
Safest vs most dangerous steroids. Skip to 29:00 mark
 
I just went the other day and got bloods so hopefully my testosterone is low enough that I can get trt through the doc. I feel it is very low. If I get prescribed trt I’m going to add npp, drol, gh
 
For a very complicated reason which I dont understand any nandrolone makes shedding worse on finasteride or dutasteride. Im following this thread. I'm in a similar boat. I'm throwing the kitchen sink at it. finasteride, RU, rogain, micro needling.... the hair is hanging in there, lol
 

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